Lue Map

[Randy Bradford]

Spyro, have to ask the $64,000 question...if you know so much where's your recovery?

Aren't you the one who specifically mentioned gold bars that were minted as the cache? What makes you think this...is there a lead to follow?

Hilton was on the wrong path, that's because he never put in the real foot work. People saw through his act and when he came up empty he assumed it was because the LUE was a myth rather than face that he might simply be wrong...or he was bitter that someone wouldn't simply hand over the cache site to him so he could walk away with his own loot and no effort put into the discovery.

Hilton's assertion that the LUE is 40 acres of gold is one that I've only ever seen him make. Sounds to me like he was trying to poison the well with one hand and wipe the egg off his face with the other.

As for "toy metal detector," seems to me Frank Fish did pretty good wit this 10 years before any of this, enough to fill a museum full of stuff he found. All signs point to metal detecting being more about the competency of the user than the technology of the machine. I won't pretend the technology wasn't in its infancy back then, but I'm guessing guys like Hardrock Hammond, LL Abe Lincoln, Frank Fish, Bill Mahan, Johnny Pounds, and many more left a legacy that would suggest your dismissal of the technology outright is a bit of what I like to call, "overplaying your hand."

So again Spyro, lets be adults here...we have something in common, a mutual interest in the LUE. How about you devote some energy to sharing some ideas about the LUE. I don't think I'm alone in this desire.

 

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[Spyro]

Ummm .. Randy? What came first, the chicken or the egg? What came FIRST? The Lincoln Memorial or Coronado and the FAILED Spanish gold expeditions in the Southwest?

 

[Randy Bradford]

Next - I've seen and saved EVERY post you've written across various websites, which go back to 2002 AND you admit in your YouTube video that you aren't smart enough to even BEGIN figuring out the calculations, measurements and the math to solve it. On the other hand - it took me about a WEEK in my spare time!

Perhaps you'd be better served swapping some of that brain power for some basic courtesy. That said, for all your brilliance I dare say I have recovered just as much LUE gold as you have.

 

[Tnmountains]

I think we all can be a little more respectful in our replies here. Keep getting reports I am going to just back it all up a couple pages and delete and you may try again?
Fair enough guys?

 

[sdcfia]

Yeah, I knew a bunch of Triangles too, as did all of us in the college of engineering. One of the first classes we all took was Principles of Basic Surveying. We learned its history, development and the use of basic surveying instruments. The final project of the term was to start out at a known control point on campus (known lat/long/elev) and measure our way to a specific corner of the campanile, then do the calcs to establish the lat/long/elev of that corner. We were graded on how close our calcs matched the true published data. Even many of us rookie boneheads were able to traverse a quarter mile and land within five feet or so of the target.

Another anecdote. My exploring partner (retired surveyor) and I are currently searching for, locating and documenting original mining claim monuments established 100-140 years ago by mineral surveyors. These monuments are carved stones. We are working on Pinos Altos Mountain, an ungodly steep, rocky and thickly tree and brush covered venue. We've found about eighty of them so far - no trace of about a half dozen others (covered by mining activity, vandalized as souvenirs, etc). Many of these monuments were relocated by modern GPS methods by today's surveyors for various reasons and found to be extremely accurately placed by the old-timers. The stones are precisely where the mineral surveyors said they were, as proven a hundred years or more later.

My point with these stories? Crude scrawled maps by jackass prospectors notwithstanding, cartoon waybills such as the LUE Map are likely fabrications for a number of reasons. If I were in a position to cache several million dollars worth of treasure, I would likely be a very capable individual to begin with, having had the ability to acquire such riches. I would presumably be caching this loot for later retrieval by myself or others. I would want to be damned sure that a searcher could find the exact hiding spot with no guesswork involved. I would have that spot surveyed with exact coordinates established - coordinates easily replicated tomorrow or hundreds of years down the road. The coordinate data (key to the cache) could be saved in a variety of international formats - even local or arbitrary. The coordinates could then be easily coded to disguise them. This short string of characters could be printed, scrawled, etched, stamped, carved, tattooed on your arm, or preserved in any number of innocuous ways for future use and secured until needed. This is a no-brainer.

The cartoon map? A juvenile prop for an alleged "Spanish treasure legend", filled with all sorts of arcane symbols leading everywhere and nowhere, depending on one's imagination. In America, very accurate lat/long coordinates have been determined by surveyors since the introduction of the telegraph in the mid 1800s, and available to the masses since the advent of the USGS quad sheets in the early 1900s. If the LUE map was created in the 1930s to locate a "massive fortune", why create an enigmatic cartoon "waybill" alleged to get you back to the correct spot when the exact coordinates can be easily determined and secured? And, by the way, how would such a waybill find its way into the public domain in the first place? IMO, the LUE map is a total fabrication, a joke designed for laughs.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Spyro, a word to the wise, talking down to members can cause you to lose posting rights.

 

[Spyro]

As I've tried to describe - all the measurements shown on the WAYBILL are property elevations, along with directional bearings to the location.

And I'll leave it at that.

 

[markmar]

As i understood , the Lue is buried under the 40 acres of Juan Mondragon pasture .

 

[Spyro]

Can anyone tell me how to DELETE my profile and all my posts?

Too much NEGATIVITY on Treasurenet.com .. I'm OTTA HERE! Hahahahahaha

 

[sdcfia]

As i understood , the Lue is buried under the 40 acres of Juan Mondragon pasture .

Marius, that's very interesting. I'm familiar with the story of the lost gold mine of Juan Mondragon (on Truchas Peak in the Sangre de Cristo Range NE of Santa Fe), but I wasn't aware that it was tied to the LUE. Ironically, just as some folks allege the Germans were somehow connected to the LUE, Germans are also part of the Juan Mondragon story. As Roseanne Roseannadanna used to say, "It's always something. If it's not one thing, it's another."

 

[markmar]

Can anyone tell me how to DELETE my profile and all my posts?

Too much NEGATIVITY on Treasurenet.com .. I'm OTTA HERE! Hahahahahaha

Spyro , please stay ! We have a lot of fun . So , you say how the LUE is the 17 tons gold from Mexico which were buried in the NW of NM ?
From what i have read , in that story the gold was buried near the surface in a large country .
If you don't say is the same story , then what you believe is LUE ? Civil war loot , WW1 loot or WW2 loot ?

 

[Spyro]

Trabuco's gold is an entirely different story.

Using modern 21st century technology - I figured out where Leon Trabuco buried his 17 tons. You're not going to find it using a TOY METAL DETECTOR.

It's still there. Let's see if you MORONS can figure out how to structure a deal with the Navajo's to go out there and GET IT. You better have the proper permits - or you might get SCALPED!

A FREE parting gift - while I try to figure out how to delete my Profile and posts.

Yours Truly,
Spyro

View attachment 1600746

 

[markmar]

Spyro

You don't " touch " anyone with your bad words . This habit shows your character which IMO is not the proper one for a conversation in a public forum .
You are just another one who tried to impune his theory to the others , without having the democratic spirit to debate his opinions with the other members .
If you can't withstand to this challenge , then you can take your TOYS and go to another beach .

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Can anyone tell me how to DELETE my profile and all my posts?

Too much NEGATIVITY on Treasurenet.com .. I'm OTTA HERE! Hahahahahaha

We no longer delete members posts we can turn a user name and account into a generic name, we do not delete posts because it leaves holes in threads.

 

[LUE-Hawn]

Tnmountains. First of all thank you for weighing in on the LUE. There seems to be two sides to the LUE ones who believe in it and the other of those who don't.

 

[LUE-Hawn]

Treasure_Hunter. As I mentioned to Tnmountains. First of all thank you for weighing in on the LUE. There seems to be two sides to the LUE ones who believe in it and the other of those who don't.

 

[LUE-Hawn]

Neither KvM nor ANYONE he wrote about found ONE SPECK OF THE LUE

So tell me spyro why are you so bitter?

If you cannot figure it out why do you post on this subject? You have your idea as it being false on the other hand I believe it is true. You put such negativity into your thinking its beginning to appear ludicrous. I believe the LUE to be a Jesuit treasure and they have signed it as such. Its too bad that some people cannot read it effectively to make a presumption it is false without giving a solution as to why they don't think it is real as in your case and that of others on this forum.

There are many of us who believe in it. It does not make our thinking worth nothing in our assumption that what we believe as the truth. Its there, you only have to use "Common Sense" and if you don't you will never find anything of value in the physical sense or in the words of others. I truly hope you find something of value in your life. The way it is now you have become cynical and it shows in your writing style of placing blame and trying to belittle and bully others. By doing so you try to sway others into your style of thinking. It does the opposite what it does is strengthen those who believe differently than you and you can't seem to understand that idea, that there are others who are of a positive mind set who believe KVM found treasure related to the LUE. I am one of many and on that note.

Have a nice day

LUE-Hawn

 

[sdcfia]

I believe there is possibly some truth underlying the creation of the LUE legend, but if so, a truth far different than what people choose to believe. If I had to speculate, first I'd take note that the LUE "waybill" seems to have surfaced in the 1930s (along with a flood of many other "Spanish treasure" legends, a significant coincidence). The scant LUE rumors - primarily through KvM - came later, especially in his TVS, which I suspect was set up to be some sort of coded message, based on who knows what.

Bottom line for me is that the underlying truth of the LUE and many other "treasure legends" is the Gold Act of 1933, which demanded that all US gold coins be turned into the government by the public in exchange for paper money. That new paper was devalued by 40% shortly thereafter, essentially screwing the public out of nearly half their wealth overnight, a bitter pill since the country was already suffering from the effects of the Great Depression at that time. The rich folks knew all this was coming of course - maybe years before the Act was enacted - and since the subsequent ownership of US gold coins was to become illegal in the US, many of them likely melted down their gold coin hoards (millions of them went unaccounted for after the call-in) into bullion bars and buried them, waiting for the price of gold to increase, which it did, from $20.67 to $35/ounce.

Elaborate "Spanish treasure" stories were concocted to justify possible later "recoveries" near where the new bullion caches were hidden. Check your favorite treasure stories and note when they were first "revealed" to the public (late 20s to early 40s, I'll bet). Bullion would be harder to identify, thus much easier to trade than illegal coins, especially overseas, and I suspect some of this loot was sold fairly quickly for a quick profit. However, the really smart and really rich guys (the heavy hitters) may have anticipated the coming US dollar Federal Reserve ponzi scheme (constant deflation of the dollar) and decided to leave some or all of their loot buried longer term until they figured the time was right for them to cash in. The time became very right in the 1970s when gold ownership became legal again and the per ounce price began to skyrocket. Of course, many of the caches could still be in the ground today. The LUE? Maybe a bullion cache somewhere in southern Colorado. Maybe long gone. Only its owners know (knew) for sure.

 

[Randy Bradford]

Elaborate "Spanish treasure" stories were concocted to justify possible later "recoveries" near where the new bullion caches were hidden. Check your favorite treasure stories and note when they were first "revealed" to the public (late 20s to early 40s, I'll bet). Bullion would be harder to identify, thus much easier to trade than illegal coins, especially overseas, and I suspect some of this loot was sold fairly quickly for a quick profit. However, the really smart and really rich guys (the heavy hitters) may have anticipated the coming US dollar Federal Reserve ponzi scheme (constant deflation of the dollar) and decided to leave some or all of their loot buried longer term until they figured the time was right for them to cash in. The time became very right in the 1970s when gold ownership became legal again and the per ounce price began to skyrocket. Of course, many of the caches could still be in the ground today. The LUE? Maybe a bullion cache somewhere in southern Colorado. Maybe long gone. Only its owners know (knew) for sure.

Ya know, I have to confess, I fully recognized that many treasure stories really gained prominence during the 1930s but always felt that was more of a by-product of the Great Depression than the Gold Act. The assumption being that with so many people out of work more of them were spending time looking for these types of things hoping to hit it big. Similarly, many stories feature finds by individuals working for the CCC and such. Truth is many of these stories were at least a half a century old during the Depression but gained new prominence (I think) as day dream fodder. To be fair, there's no reason that both the Gold Act and the Depression could play roles in the upswing of treasure lore in the 1930s, to say nothing of the potential of other influences.

The LUE would be rather interesting because in its current form, if it did come forth in the 1930s it would be one of very few stories that emerged in this tiem period from nothing. the only other significant story I can think of that didn't have a strong foundation in the late 1800s would be Victorio Peak.

Treasure of the Valley of Secrets has always bothered me on a number of points. While KvM mentions the LUE, it seems shoe-horned in, particularly since he makes it clear that the cave of gold and the LUE are not the same treasure. My biggest complaint is his use of Hurt's Scarlet Shadow which he approaches as a legitimate historical recording rather than a bit of political propaganda disguised as fiction.

Another LUE crossover (and a far more likely one I think than the Nazis) is that the LUE caches might be related to the French miners at Treasure Mountain. In that case you have a map and on site treasure markings. The one shortcoming of the LUE (not the only one I suppose) is that even if it can put you close to a site you'd need something on the ground to get more precise and closer to the target with. Treasure Mountain would appear on the surface to satisfy both of these concerns. Keep in mind too that the Treasure Mountain story came into prominence in the mid 1910's.

 

[Rawhide]

I would like to get a few of those K. Mueller books, now that could help with the map.