The lost Treasure of Napoleon Bonaparte

[doc-d]

The wise old bird offers much wisdom for us……..
"However I do believe hundreds of cahes of treasure remains to be found along the course of the Grand Armies retreat. And hell a rotten back pack full of gold coins would be a cool find indeed anyway."

Exactly…..and there is much benefit with such a find……you can potentially keep under the radar…….

 

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[Old Silver]

Has anyone considered the possibility that this could be the source of other large treasure stories, maybe even in the USA?

 

[Crow]

Hello Old Silver

I would not say impossible but in regards to failed Grand Army Russian campaign I think unlikely. However Napoleon looted many countries and amassed treasure even in France itself. After his downfall at Waterloo many of his officers fled to Louisiana and other locations of large amounts of french settlers and I have no doubt that some treasures from the Napoleonic era for one reason or another was buried by those people. Some in the course of uncertain times never made it back to the caches that had been buried there.

Crow

 

[releventchair]

Wonder if the Cossacks have records of the retreat to confirm another curse of bearing treasure. In this case for only a distance by those trying to see France again yet parting with its burden was much better than the 400,000 men left to carry no more of anything. Would be hard for a survivor to go back.

 

[Crow]

Napoleon entered Moscow one week after his victory at Borodino with approximately 100,000 tired men. Most citizens had already taken their belongings and evacuated Moscow by the time the French arrived. The Russians deliberately set fires, and burned three-fourths of the city. Although there was still some habitable shelter, there was no food in Moscow, and typhus raged in the city. The French would stay in Moscow for only one month. There was nothing that they could use in the city, so it was impossible to stay there for the Russian winter.

The Russians refused Napoleon's overtures to surrender. On 19 October, 95,000 French soldiers retreated into the cold, back to Smolensk. Thousands more died from typhus fever as the cohesion of the army disintegrated. Cossacks and peasants constantly harassed the soldiers. Many soldiers threw away their weapons and joined the ever-growing band of stragglers. The first snows fell on 3 November, and the temperature became bitter cold. Many soldiers froze to death. Prince Eugène, reported, "I must not conceal from Your Highness that three days of suffering have so dispirited the men that at this moment I believe them incapable of making any serious effort." that was from a report be Anderson in 1813.

The tattered army reached Smolensk on 9 November, but the supplies were severely depleted. Napoleon knew his army could not remain in Smolensk for the winter. After a brief stay, the French left Smolensk with approximately 24,000 soldiers.

A few days later, the Russians reclaimed Dorogobouche. General Robert Wilson, the British Military Commissioner stationed at the Russian headquarters, was stunned by what he saw:

"The naked masses of dead and dying men; the mangled carcasses of ten thousand horses, which had, in some cases, been cut for food before life had ceased, the craving of famine at other points forming groups of cannibals; the air enveloped in flame and smoke; the prayers of hundreds of naked wretches, flying from the peasantry whose shouts of vengeance echoed incessantly through the woods; the wrecks of cannon, powder-waggons, military stores of all descriptions, and every ordinary as well as extraordinary ill of war combined with the asperity of the climate, formed such a scene as probably was never witnessed to such an extent in the history of the world."

​

Captain Franz Roeder, of the Hessian Lifeguards, commanded a company of only 58 soldiers on 12 November; 46 were sick or dead and 46 were missing. Roeder battled the hunger and cold, unable to remove the lice from his shirt for 10 days. He contracted typhus and dysentery, and, later in the month, he and his remaining troops were captured by Cossacks. He was later released and returned to his family in Germany.



More detail of his odeal can be found in the following book.





When the French crossed the Beresina River on 28 November, only 28,000 troops remained. In addition, 30,000 stragglers may have crossed with the French army. Many people drowned or were crushed trying to cross the river. Private Walter Jakob related a particularly disturbing scene at the crossing, "...our sick who had been conveyed to this point in wagons and consisted almost entirely of officers, were left to themselves; and only deathly white faces and stiffened hands stretched toward us."


Between the towns of Smorgoni and Vilna, 20,000 more perished. On December 8, the army reached Vilna with only 7,000 soldiers under arms and 20,000 stragglers. Vilna contained sufficient quantities of supplies, but rioting reduced the food and other supplies to nothing in short order. The French army moved on by 10 December, leaving the sick and wounded in Vilna. Typhus spread throughout the countryside that winter. The typhus victims huddled together on rotten straw, mixed with their own excrement. They were delirious from fever and hunger; many gnawed on leather and fed on the flesh of their fellow soldiers. General Wilson recounted,

"The hospital at St. Bazile in Vilna presented the most awful and hideous site: seven thousand five hundred bodies were piled like pigs of lead over one another in the corridors...and all the broken windows and walls were stuffed with feet, legs, arms, hands, trunks and heads to fit the apertures, and keep out the air from the yet living."

​

Dung was burned in the streets because the Russians believed that the smoke drove off pestilential vapors. By the end of December, 25,000 sick people crowded Vilna; only 3,000 were still alive by June 1813.

By the end of December, fewer than 40,000 soldiers and stragglers crossed the Niemen. The Grande Army was utterly destroyed during the Russian campaign.

It is estimated that 400,000 soldiers may have died from illness, exposure, or battlefield injuries. As many as 220,000 may have died solely from disease. In addition, the Russians captured nearly 100,000 French, but only half survived the harsh conditions of internment, including typhus. The Russian army also suffered from dysentery, typhus, malnutrition, and exposure. Although records are not as accurate for Russian troops, at least 100,000 soldiers died from wounds and disease. Countless other Russian and Polish peasants succumbed to disease and exposure.

In all the megalomaniac Napoleon deserted his own army and left them to there fate.

Crow

 

[releventchair]

A Pole burned dung at a shop we worked together in, once, till ordered not to. On a metal pyramid if remembered correctly.
His tales left a different idea of survival. Some of haunting choices no one should make but had to be made . Some recounted through generations but of the type likely to result in a taciturn population if a subject were to be broached.
With wondering if the Cossacks had records,even only verbal it is doubtful any would release such. Maybe Putin calling them up during the Olympics was a way to know what they were doing while dealing with the more recent Ukraine activities?. Perhaps a reminder of a former near alliance defending borders in the eighteen hundreds. A rather independent and non controlled group they were well respected warriors. Their name perhaps meaning free adventurers. Cossacks ? Russiapedia Of Russian origin
To hear someone tell of the Poles Calvary riding into antiquity and with the inefficiency of what was once the elite of a races hopes overwhelmed and a sadness replacing them, it still showed. They were said to have saved Napoleon on multiple occasions and even held Moscow a couple years in the sixteen hundreds but in time fell away.
Napoleon never really lost to the Russians as far as battle before his retreat. But Moscow had nothing to provide for his army and if it had he would have risked being surrounded, and the Russians had all of Siberia to fall back to. A slow army from Europe would be caught in winter. And was. Dec. 9th. Eighteen below Fahrenheit.
Not intolerable for healthy well fed and properly dressed troops.Digging Napoleon's Dead - Archaeology Magazine Archive

 

[tintin_treasure]

Napoleon entered Moscow one week after his victory at Borodino with approximately 100,000 tired men. Most citizens had already taken their belongings and evacuated Moscow by the time the French arrived. The Russians deliberately set fires, and burned three-fourths of the city. Although there was still some habitable shelter, there was no food in Moscow, and typhus raged in the city. The French would stay in Moscow for only one month. There was nothing that they could use in the city, so it was impossible to stay there for the Russian winter.

The Russians refused Napoleon's overtures to surrender. On 19 October, 95,000 French soldiers retreated into the cold, back to Smolensk. Thousands more died from typhus fever as the cohesion of the army disintegrated. Cossacks and peasants constantly harassed the soldiers. Many soldiers threw away their weapons and joined the ever-growing band of stragglers. The first snows fell on 3 November, and the temperature became bitter cold. Many soldiers froze to death. Prince Eugène, reported, "I must not conceal from Your Highness that three days of suffering have so dispirited the men that at this moment I believe them incapable of making any serious effort." that was from a report be Anderson in 1813.

The tattered army reached Smolensk on 9 November, but the supplies were severely depleted. Napoleon knew his army could not remain in Smolensk for the winter. After a brief stay, the French left Smolensk with approximately 24,000 soldiers.

A few days later, the Russians reclaimed Dorogobouche. General Robert Wilson, the British Military Commissioner stationed at the Russian headquarters, was stunned by what he saw:

"The naked masses of dead and dying men; the mangled carcasses of ten thousand horses, which had, in some cases, been cut for food before life had ceased, the craving of famine at other points forming groups of cannibals; the air enveloped in flame and smoke; the prayers of hundreds of naked wretches, flying from the peasantry whose shouts of vengeance echoed incessantly through the woods; the wrecks of cannon, powder-waggons, military stores of all descriptions, and every ordinary as well as extraordinary ill of war combined with the asperity of the climate, formed such a scene as probably was never witnessed to such an extent in the history of the world."

​

Captain Franz Roeder, of the Hessian Lifeguards, commanded a company of only 58 soldiers on 12 November; 46 were sick or dead and 46 were missing. Roeder battled the hunger and cold, unable to remove the lice from his shirt for 10 days. He contracted typhus and dysentery, and, later in the month, he and his remaining troops were captured by Cossacks. He was later released and returned to his family in Germany.

View attachment 1061906

More detail of his odeal can be found in the following book.

View attachment 1061908



When the French crossed the Beresina River on 28 November, only 28,000 troops remained. In addition, 30,000 stragglers may have crossed with the French army. Many people drowned or were crushed trying to cross the river. Private Walter Jakob related a particularly disturbing scene at the crossing, "...our sick who had been conveyed to this point in wagons and consisted almost entirely of officers, were left to themselves; and only deathly white faces and stiffened hands stretched toward us."


Between the towns of Smorgoni and Vilna, 20,000 more perished. On December 8, the army reached Vilna with only 7,000 soldiers under arms and 20,000 stragglers. Vilna contained sufficient quantities of supplies, but rioting reduced the food and other supplies to nothing in short order. The French army moved on by 10 December, leaving the sick and wounded in Vilna. Typhus spread throughout the countryside that winter. The typhus victims huddled together on rotten straw, mixed with their own excrement. They were delirious from fever and hunger; many gnawed on leather and fed on the flesh of their fellow soldiers. General Wilson recounted,

"The hospital at St. Bazile in Vilna presented the most awful and hideous site: seven thousand five hundred bodies were piled like pigs of lead over one another in the corridors...and all the broken windows and walls were stuffed with feet, legs, arms, hands, trunks and heads to fit the apertures, and keep out the air from the yet living."

​

Dung was burned in the streets because the Russians believed that the smoke drove off pestilential vapors. By the end of December, 25,000 sick people crowded Vilna; only 3,000 were still alive by June 1813.

By the end of December, fewer than 40,000 soldiers and stragglers crossed the Niemen. The Grande Army was utterly destroyed during the Russian campaign.

It is estimated that 400,000 soldiers may have died from illness, exposure, or battlefield injuries. As many as 220,000 may have died solely from disease. In addition, the Russians captured nearly 100,000 French, but only half survived the harsh conditions of internment, including typhus. The Russian army also suffered from dysentery, typhus, malnutrition, and exposure. Although records are not as accurate for Russian troops, at least 100,000 soldiers died from wounds and disease. Countless other Russian and Polish peasants succumbed to disease and exposure.

In all the megalomaniac Napoleon deserted his own army and left them to there fate.

Crow

thanks Crow for that vivid account ...I suppose Vilna stands for Vilnuis in the story.

tintin treasure

 

[Crow]

Hello TT I dare say it does....Some European names of cities and towns over time can have various spelling variations.

Crow

 

[tintin_treasure]

Hello TT I dare say it does....Some European names of cities and towns over time can have various spelling variations.

Crow

thanks Crow,it seems they lingered there for some days...

tintin treasure

 

[Crow]

Hello TT It seems so.

i have not got a map of around the date of 1813.

I have earlier maps before 1800 that might gives us an rough idea of what buildings could of been around in 1813 and perhaps occupied by the Grand Army? The one below is perahps too old as it is 1697, a 115 years before the event.



Crow

 

[Crow]

TT this maps is basic overview you can seethe a lake not far from Vilnuis...



Once again we are at a disadvantage because we need a more contempory may nearer to the date of 1813?

Anyone?

crow

 

[tintin_treasure]

TT this maps is basic overview you can seethe a lake not far from Vilnuis...

View attachment 1061932

Once again we are at a disadvantage because we need a more contempory may nearer to the date of 1813?

Anyone?

crow

thanks Crow...I also read somewhere that there are local treasure legends in Vilnuis and Kaunas areas. It is also important to identify those legends and sift out those related to Napoleon soldiers.

tintin treasure

 

[Crow]

Hello TT

Exactly.... Collect the information of the local areas, treasure stories then weed out the facts from all the fiction.

Crow

 

[tintin_treasure]

Also it would be helpful if we identify the old road they used to exit the city....there was a diary account of an inn keeper who saw soldiers hastily leaving with gold carts...which road did they take and in what territory did it lead? mountains? lakes? In what condition is that road today?

tintin treasure

 

[tintin_treasure]

Also it would be helpful if we identify the old road they used to exit the city....there was a diary account of an inn keeper who saw soldiers hastily leaving with gold carts...which road did they take and in what territory did it lead? mountains? lakes? In what condition is that road today?

tintin treasure

It would be reasonable to concentrate on the western side of the city as they most probably exited in that direction

tintin treasure

 

[Crow]

possibly

But if they were intending to hide treasure in Vilnius itself they may of looked to what ever was abandoned and no one visited inside the city also.

The following painting dated 1808 only 5 years the Grand army came shows in parts a deserted ruin castle of Vilnius at the time. what better place to seal up in an old abandoned underground vault or bury in the castle ditch treasure looted from Russia out of the prying eyes of the locals?



Even about 100 years later large parts of the fortress was still in ruins as can be seen in this 1900 Photograph.



But here the age old problem we have time my friend and urban expansionism. The remains I am lead to believe is no part of a historical museum and the old bastions of had renovations.



But that is one possible site of perhaps many?

Crow

 

[tintin_treasure]

possibly

But if they were intending to hide treasure in Vilnius itself they may of looked to what ever was abandoned and no well visited inside the city also.

The following painting dated 1808 only 5 years the Grand army came shows in parts a deserted ruin castle of Vilnius at the time. what better place to seal up in an old abandoned underground vault or bury in the castle ditch treasure looted from Russia out of the prying eyes of the locals?

View attachment 1061937

Even about 100 years later large parts of the fortress was still in ruins as can be seen in this 1900 Photograph.

View attachment 1061938

But here the age old problem we have time my friend and urban expansionism. The remains I am lead to believe is no part of a historical museum and the old bastions of had renovations.

View attachment 1061939

But that is one possible site of perhaps many?

Crow

thanks Crow,,A castle ruins and its undergrounds seems a good spot for treasure hiding. The fact that nearby areas are excavated during urban expansion,would also indirectly narrow the place for us as construction activities would have revealed anything buried of anythings worth(unless hushed up). If we also opt to check around Vilnuis then we have to know thier exact route.

tintin treasure

 

[Crow]

TT the first step to explore further is try to hunt down in archives any old plans of castle present all dates to verify if old tunnels was sealed during the course of many renovations. Hopeful Town plans have survived the wars?

Clearly by the renovation many brick reinforcement walls was built over the existing walls covering up old drains and gun ports and tunnel entrances?





That said that could be one place of many through out the city

Crow

 

[tintin_treasure]

TT the first step to explore further is try to hunt down in archives any old plans of castle present all dates to verify if old tunnels was sealed during the course of many renovations. Hopeful Town plans have survived the wars?

Clearly by the renovation many brick reinforcement walls was built over the existing walls covering up old drains and gun ports and tunnel entrances?

View attachment 1061940

View attachment 1061941

View attachment 1061942

That said that could be one place of many through out the city

Crow

thanks Crow...that is sure a possibility. Gone are the days where you go to a certain castle ruin site as a tourist and try to sniff around...nowadays such sites are either ticketed tourist perimieters where you only make a casual visit and leave before 6 pm,all under a prying CCTV radar or at worst such sites are closed to tourists and u can only see it from a fenced distance and the reason is ''archaeological dig site'' but you hardly see anyone working there ,and it would be like that for years and years,,,when you enquire they tell u they are waiting for unesco funds bla bla,,,Hence maybe established explorers with official contracts may have a chance to check out such ruins.

tintin treasure

 

[Crow]

Hello TT sadly that is the reality one faces with such treasure legends.

However I have found out more places like this monument to the 1812 monument North east of Minsk



It seems it was belived the grand army retreated from Moscow via Smolensk via north west of Minsk....perhaps through and area called Nemezis manor now abandoned to Vilnuis. many items of treasure must be still buried in many locations along that route. Probably not big treasure but big enough.



Crow