Treasure of Ahamad Shah Abdali

[tintin_treasure]

It all adds to the thrill of the chase....

But only search and look into something that there is a firm chance exists/ed...

One thing I've learnt the hard way is, ensure that you have other income streams; never expect that you are on the verge of making a fortune. That train of though can leave one high and dry.

IPUK

IPUK..that is true..Lives have been devastated following treasure legends for 3 and 4 decades getting nothing.One can only venture into pro THing once he gets a substantial first find that could ensure his livelihood for a long time.Otherwise it is very unwise to go full time.


tintin treasure

 

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[Interested Party in UK]

Now TT, there's been a fair few old legends, stories and yarns discussed and debated on here.

Which one(s) has/have captivated you and why?

IPUK

 

[tintin_treasure]

Now TT, there's been a fair few old legends, stories and yarns discussed and debated on here.

Which one(s) has/have captivated you and why?

IPUK

IPUK

I am relatively new to the forum I only joined in July. But I am not new to TH . In general I have always liked lost treasures,lost books,lost relics,lost paintings,lost ancient cave etc stories and legends. For example Inca treasure legends,,, I have followed the missing Ghent altar piece Saga for sometime etc I have started a thread on the Menorah,so that and related ark of the covenant topics, etc..I also like puzzles so I have spent some weeks in July deciphering Fenn' poem and I am one of the people who claim to have solved it (But couldnt go the US now.. ).So I am sort of Casual TH hobby guy but would like to have boots on ground sometime.For the moment I am discussing topics only...So my time here in the forum is only few months..but have followed TH stories for long time in different level of intensities as a hobby....The aforementioned things are just hobby for me which I may pursue or not depending on many factors and occupations of life...but I have a certain TH topic that is personal which is my life long quest...a certain lost art...to seek and be found in it...

p.s.It is a pity that you are not in US as u could have gone to my solved site and we could have striked a deal

tintin treasure

 

[Crow]

Continuing on with John Macay Roberts

By 1934 he was sailing to Bombay but wife a wife. Her name was Gwlays. There stopping off point was Bombay India for their overland Journey to Afghanistan. Being an Engineer first wiith the .The Central scientific company. And by the newspaper story of Diving tool that its clear he must of been taking to Afghanistan an early prototype metal detector?



But where dis he obtainthe information on where to look?

Continued...


Crow

 

[Crow]

We have to go back two 1922....

King Amanullah Khan tried to modernize the country. But he did fatal mistake that he alienated the tribal elders. Afghanistan has never had unity as a nation as it is conglomeration of feudal trial states with shifting loyalties.




​

Amānullāh's domestic reforms were no less dramatic than his foreign policy initiatives, but those reforms could not match his achievement of complete, lasting independence. Mahumud Tarzi Amanullah's father-in-law and foreign minister , encouraged the monarch's interest in social and political reform but urged that it be gradually built upon the basis of a strong central government, as had occurred in Turkey under the famous Kemal Ataturk. Socially, Amanullah enjoyed many of thoughts Mahumud Tarzi.



Such ass radical thoughts at the time at the time, such as giving women more rights and allowing freedom of press through publishing. Tarzi, being heavily influenced by the West, brought this influence to Afghanistan - Amanullah enjoyed Western dress and etiquette. His wife, Queen Sorya Tarzi , became the face of Amanullah Khan's reforms in regard to women.[SUP]




[/SUP]

Amānullāh's reforms touched on many areas of Afghan life. In 1921 he established an air force, albeit with only a few Soviet planes and pilots;





Afghan personnel later received training in Italy and France and as well as Turkey. Although he came to power with army support, Amanullah did a fatal mistake alienating many army personnel by reducing both their pay and size of the forces and by altering recruiting patterns to prevent tribal leaders from controlling who joined the service. Amanullah's Turkish advisers suggested the king retire the older officers, men who were set in their ways and might resist the formation of a more professional army. Amanullah's minister of war, General Muhummad Nadir Khan



An ancestor of the present treasure hunter journalist searching for this mysterious ancient treasure.



General Muhummad Nadir Khan was a member of the Musahiban branch of the royal family, opposed these changes, preferring instead to recognize tribal sensitivities. The king rejected Nadir Khan's advice and an anti-Turkish faction took root in the army; in 1924 Nadir Khan left the government to become ambassador to France.


If fully enacted, Amānullāh's reforms would have totally transformed Afghanistan. Most of his proposals, however, died with his abdication. His transforming social and educational reforms included: adopting the solar calendar, requiring Western dress in parts of Kabul and elsewhere, discouraging the veiling and seclusion of women, abolishing slavery and forced labor, introducing secular education (for girls as well as boys); adult education classes and educating nomads. His economic reforms included restructuring, reorganizing, and rationalizing the entire tax structure, antismuggling and anticorruption campaigns, a livestock census for taxation purposes, the first budget (in 1922), implementing the metric system (which did not take hold), establishing the Bank-i-Melli (National Bank) in 1928, and introducing the Afghani as the new unit of currency in 1923.




The political and judicial reforms Amānullāh proposed were equally radical for the time and included the creation of Afghanistan's first constitution (in 1923), the guarantee of civil rights (first by decree and later constitutionally), national registration and identity cards for the citizenry, the establishment of a legislative assembly, a court system to enforce new secular penal, civil, and commercial codes, prohibition of blood money, and abolition of subsidies and privileges for tribal chiefs and the royal family. that must must of really upset the tribal chiefs


Although sharia (Islamic law) was to be the residual source of law, it regained prominence after the khost rebellion of 1923-24. Religious leaders, who had gained influence under Habibullah kan the previous king.



The tribal leaders were very unhappy with Amānullāh's extensive religious reforms. It was the underlying factors that lead to the tribal revolt that overthrew Amanullah grew out of opposition to his reform program, although those people most affected by his reforms were urban dwellers not universally opposed to his policies, rather than the tribes. Nevertheless, the king had managed to alienate religious leaders and army members.



The unraveling began, however, when Pashtun tribesmen revolted in Jalalabad in November 1928. When tribal forces advanced on the capital, many of the king's troops deserted. Amanullah faced another threat as well: in addition to the Pashtun tribes, forces led by a Tajik tribes tribesman were moving toward Kabul from the north. In January 1929, Amanullah abdicated the throne to his oldest brother,

.

However I think he must of been left with the proverbial hand grenade with the pin out. As he saw the writing on the wall so to speak and only ruled for only three days before escaping into exile in British-India.

Amanullah's made later efforts to recover power by leading a small, ill-equipped force toward Kabul failed. The deposed king crossed the border into British-India and went into exile in Italy and remained in Europe until his death in 1960.

It was in this Crisis of Civil war in 1928-1929 kmnowlege of this treasure as well as other treasures associated with the Monarchy of Afghanistan fled the country. Meny of the procgrssive rul;ing elite flet the country. it was one of first airbourne evacuations done in history.



Many of high ranking officals and their family fled to Britian or British india. Along with it knowlege of this great treasure

To be contined....


Crow

 

[Crow]

In the newspapers of the day tells of evacuation.





Most were British national but a few of the ruling elite also made there escape also. For it was time of water carrier king to come into power. Knowledge of the ancient treasure was also fell into the hand of this so called Bandit king....Bacha I Saqao



To be continued...

Crow

 

[tintin_treasure]

thanks crow,,,the plot thickens

tintin treasure

 

[Crow]

Indeed it does... Because few realize the British supplied the King of Afghanistan a large some of money to modernize the country. 500000 pounds back then would be the eqivilant of 200 million today. this added to discovery of gold while making a road. and the knowledge of this earlier treasure was bank rolling the modernization of Afghanistan at the time.

The follow paper tells of treasure discovered that helped fill Afghanistan's coffers.



Another story of unruly tribal leader capture a British treasure train when Afghanistan was part of the British commonwealth.



Parts of this treasure was part of the state treasure until 1929 until Bacha I Saqao the bandit king took control of the country for a 9 month rule.

to be continued....

Crow

 

[Crow]

When Bacha I Saqao the bandit king took control he got control of state treasures in the Capital. The first thing he did was print his own money. Some academic claim he paid his loyal tribesmen in Gold. there is not evidence of that. He infact hoarded as much as possible.









Bacha I Saqao the bandit king in his 9 month reign overturned all the progressive modernization of country and return Afghanistan back to feudal state under sharia Law.

But he like other before him was dealing with a very unstable State...

To be continued...

Crow

 

[Crow]

But the course the time came for even tyrant such as Bacha I Saqao the bandit king i


In the following newspaper report....just 9 months after his rule







Nadair had become obsessed in finding this ancient treasure and the treasure from the royal treasure stolen by Bacha I Saqao the bandit king.



Crow

 

[Crow]

So Nadir khan become obsessed about these treasures.

Stories must of abounded....In 1932 a New Zealand gold prospector wanted by all account was searching for gold wanted to dredge a rivers for gold. Was he just looking for gold or rumored treasure that has been tossed into a river?

Mr G P Blue a 71 year gold prospector as engaged to dredge the Kabul river by King Nadirs Government??




to be continued....

 

[tintin_treasure]

So Nadir khan become obsessed about these treasures.

Stories must of abounded....In 1932 a New Zealand gold prospector wanted by all account was searching for gold wanted to dredge a rivers for gold. Was he just looking for gold or rumored treasure that has been tossed into a river?

Mr G P Blue a 71 year gold prospector as engaged to dredge the Kabul river by King Nadirs Government??

View attachment 1065339


to be continued....

thanks Crow again
One thing is not clear for me... You said General Muhummad Nadir Khan is the ancestor of the present day TH hunter Tahir Shah ,who claims to be a descendant of Ahmed Shah (that killed The Persian Nadir Shah who actually looted the treasure from India). As far as names are concerned I dont see similarity with the General( Muhummad Nadir Khan ) and Tahir Shah names

tintin treasure

 

[Crow]

Hello TT I badly worded the word descendant and I should perhaps explained in greater detail as indirect descendant but part of the complex long line tribal elites that ruled the region. But "descendant" non the less Tahir Shah father is related to Jan-Fishan Khan who is related to Khan rulers. And Shar family are connected Khan families via earlier ancestors going back to 16th century.

As you already know Tahir Shah’s family have lived in Afghanistan for more than a thousand years, as rulers, warriors, and mystics. Shah shares the same name as the first king, and a common ancestry. His father, Idries Shah, was Afghanistan’s most famous writer of modern times, and was preoccupied with the fabulous lost treasure. His own fascination for riddle led him to write a bestselling novel about the gold of Ahmad Shah. this preoccupation must of past onto to his son Tahir.

here is complex line of genealogical information on the relationship of royal line of succession in Afghanistan.



Crow

 

[tintin_treasure]

Hello TT I badly worded the word descendant and I should perhaps explained in greater detail as indirect descendant but part of the complex long line tribal elites that ruled the region. But "descendant" non the less Tahir Shah father is related to Jan-Fishan Khan is related to Khan rulers.

As you already know Tahir Shah’s family have lived in Afghanistan for more than a thousand years, as rulers, warriors, and mystics. Shah shares the same name as the first king, and a common ancestry. His father, Idries Shah, was Afghanistan’s most famous writer of modern times, and was preoccupied with the fabulous lost treasure. His own fascination for riddle led him to write a bestselling novel about the gold of Ahmad Shah. this preoccupation must of past onto to his son Tahir.

Crow

thanks for the clarification Crow .It sure is an interesting and entangled yarn.

tintin treasure

 

[Crow]

thanks for the clarification Crow .It sure is an interesting and entangled yarn.

tintin treasure

Interesting indeed....But there's more but this old crow beak is little droopy and time to roost....

Crow

 

[Crow]

The search by G P Blue the New Zealander dredging operation must have not been of any success with must of frustrated General Muhummad Nadir Khan to try some thing else with his obsessive search of his county. The answer came from England.


By 1934 General Muhummad Nadir Khan enticed John M Rorberts Who worked as engineer for the central scientific company. Who used to make scientific instruments for schools collages and universities. Who was in England working on early prototype metal detector. In those days they did not call it a metal detector but a metal diviner... Cutting edge at the time but very primitive by today's standards.



The following newspaper story tells more...





So we have John M Roberts traveling to Afghanistan with his Welsh wife to live under the care of General Muhummad Nadir Khan while he used this instrument trying to find this lost fortune. and as far as we know there was no success. Then by
1937 Robert Mackenzie is searching using a chart?



Another newspaper gave more details....

To be continued...


Crow

 

[Crow]

Hello again continuing the yarn the following story tell s about Robert Mackenzie and a diviner? (is that the American John M Roberts?) on quest to search for the treasure. See in the 1937 newspaper below.



The question begs was this mysterious metal diviner J M Roberts working with Robert Mackenzie?




You will not notice the above newspaper connects the older ancient looted from India treasure with that of looted royal Afghanistan treasury. In the following newspaper story dated 1936 we know John M Roberts was perecting his metal diviner and still in Afghanistan in 1936..



So there is a very good possibility that these two men paired to search for treasure? The question is where? One of clues as alluded to in the newspaper of where they intended to search took place is in the South East of Kabul and a secret cave... This would of been logical as this the Bandit king ancestral tribal area. Did they ever discover anything?

We do not know as it appears both men just disappear from history?

A mystery indeed....

Strange enough in the general region there is marking of a date 1938 of ancient petroglyph.



Crow

 

[tintin_treasure]

Hello again continuing the yarn the following story tell s about Robert Mackenzie and a diviner? (is that the American John M Roberts?) on quest to search for the treasure. See in the 1937 newspaper below.

View attachment 1065766

The question begs was this mysterious metal diviner J M Roberts working with Robert Mackenzie?


View attachment 1065760

You will not notice the above newspaper connects the older ancient looted from India treasure with that of looted royal Afghanistan treasury. In the following newspaper story dated 1936 we know John M Roberts was perecting his metal diviner and still in Afghanistan in 1936..

View attachment 1065767

So there is a very good possibility that these two men paired to search for treasure? The question is where? One of clues as alluded to in the newspaper of where they intended to search took place is in the South East of Kabul and a secret cave... This would of been logical as this the Bandit king ancestral tribal area. Did they ever discover anything?

We do not know as it appears both men just disappear from history?

A mystery indeed....

Strange enough in the general region there is marking of a date 1938 of ancient petroglyph.

View attachment 1065768

Crow

thanks Crow a mystery indeed. However thanks for the valuable lights you shed.

tintin treasure

 

[Crow]

What seems sames strange the source of Timur Shar information was through his grandfathers notebooks. Of fabulous points on various structures in Afghanistan that points the way. He came to conclusion that this faboulas ancient treasure was near the famous valley of Buddhist caves and two giant Buddhas that was destroy in 2001 by the Taliban north west of Kabul . However my conclusion is more inclined that this treasure if it still exists will be found south east of Kabul towards the frontier with Pakistan tribal areas.

This was the tribal area of the bandit king as well as the first king of Afghanistan whose capital city at the time was Kandahar... There is also the possabilty that it was already found by Pushtu tribal leader during the Soviet Afghanistan war as during that long bitter war there was an increase of illegal rubies and emeralds sold on the black market during that era and gold bought at rock bottom prices when gold was an al time low during that era.Most of the wealth was used to sustain the war against the soviets as the CIA Sold stinger Missiles to the tribal fighters it signaled the end of air domination by the soviets that ultimately brought down the soviet union.

In the region there was caves....that was used by tribal fighters against the soviets later used by the Taliban. Was the treasure at one point hidden in the deep recesses of these caves?



Or still out there still remain hidden in perhaps an unknown cave an unimaginable treasure?

The mind boggles...Crow

 

[Crow]

TT one thing I can guarantee ya it a tough region. Just look at the Emerald miners in the roof of world in the Hindu Kush




To do business and travel is a complex negotiation between various tribal leaders.





Crow