When a treasure legend becomes a reality.

[BillA]

mercy Tom, I'm new at reading your posts but you seem to be fiercely dogmatic

some, not all
and again; some, not all

Kanacki's post above is quite extraordinary in that the details and methodology of a truly huge operation are shown, and I am left shaking my head at the scope and investment. Would be interesting to know the expenses to the point of physical discovery (including both paid and contributed hours and resources).

Spanish mines in the New World are a most fertile source - of some finds and many (false) legends. But one does not (re)search Spanish activities from North America, or in English; and the best lead in the world is worthless without the resources (including mental, eh) to follow it up.

Tom, it would seem that much of your ire is for those dilettantes who wish to consider themselves "treasure hunters" using a whopper of a implausible tale to earn their merit badge. Try and remember that we are dealing with a bell-shaped curve, all will be entertained.

ya know, Kanacki did not say squat about turtles (incomplete investigation? or shielding info?)

Matthew

edit: copied from Kanacki's post below:
"Tom will make the last post on . . . this Topic... "
we look at the headlight thinking its a light in the window

 

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[KANACKI]

Enjoyed your videos. Thanx for the links. At the risk of occupying too much space on the forum, let's just try this : Turn your quote above, around, in the opposite direction (to say the same thing, in reverse) : "..... It becomes all too easy to accept every legend astrue and factual ..."


So how do we sort out those that are just "imagination gone wild" vs "those with merit" ?

You CAN NOT go by "those that sound most convincing". Because, sure as heck, a BUNCH of them sound mighty convincing . With pedigrees, cool narratives, skeletons, conspiracies, motives, tips-of-icebergs, etc.. Right ? In which case, you would merely be "relying on the legend to prove the legend". Eh ? And even to try to "sort out fact from fiction" (to "remove the legend" aspect) is fraught with problems. Because, no doubt, you will find that many elements of the story are (gasp) TRUE ! But that fails to take into account that ALL treasure legends are based in truth. Eg.: names, dates, events. But if there was not "treasure" at the end of that, .... what good does all the other data do ?

Thus to merely find "true elements" of a legend, does not mean "treasure". No treasure legend ever started with "Once upon a time". You can conjecture treasure (quite sincerely) around ANY past historical set of facts. But that doesn't make the treasure part of the conjecture to be necessarily true.

Tom I am sure you are a re incarnation of Sir Humphery Appbley




We can go on with this pointless pissing match Tom you are embarrassing yourself. I understand why South Sea Mariner and others have left the forum.

I do not post here for endless nit picking pissing matches.

Clearly Tom you are obtuse and we can have endless argument until we go blue in the face. I have much more important issues than verbal diarrhea you have posted above.

You went to Mexico and failed because you never did any proper research. But your ego will not let you deal with that failure. So because of your failure. You concluded you did not fail, it was the people you went there with making wild assumptions. And concluded all treasure legends are fairy stories? Yet you openly claim to detect stage coach stops under the assumption that coins may be found. Yet a treasure legend if proven to be with real documents to you is nothing but an assumption. Does it not seem a little hypocritical?

Face it Tom It not the topic that is the problem? Its your ego. We have seen it in many posts in forum I know here many have seen it. The endless arguments with people nitpicking?

Why is that? Because you got to be the best Tom.

In your own post you say you have found the the most gold coins in California? if not the whole United States. Isn't that an assumption and very pretentious. I suspect there are many Detectorist than have found many things. But I do not see them glorifying them selves over a Talley and claiming they are the best.

Why? Your rationale is ego driven. Now everyone reading this please take note

Tom will make the last post on the this Topic...

Why "Ego"

Goodbye Tom

Kanacki

 

[sdcfia]

Kanacki's post above is quite extraordinary in that the details and methodology of a truly huge operation are shown, and I am left shaking my head at the scope and investment. Would be interesting to know the expenses to the point of physical discovery (including both paid and contributed hours and resources).

Spanish mines in the New World are a most fertile source - of some finds and many (false) legends. But one does not (re)search Spanish activities from North America, or in English; and the best lead in the world is worthless without the resources (including mental, eh) to follow it up.

Archivo General de Indias in Seville is a must-visit destination if you ever find yourself in that wonderful city. As indicated in the videos, you can just walk right in and marvel at the bookcases and exhibits, but don't expect to bring your legal pad and start doing "treasure research". Barron and his group are turning up impressive documentation and seemingly using it their advantage. Congratulations to their team.

That said, remember that this is a multi-million $ corporation with top-notch academics on their payroll. This is how you get to access the old documents - money and good connections. Us Joe Schmo's don't have these types of resources. Not impossible, but not easy either. Take a look at this: General Archive of the Indies, Seville | Dissertation Reviews

For decades I've supported a point raised in this thread: 99% of the "information" available on "treasure legends" is horse-pucky. Fun, imaginative, intriguing, yes, but not leading you to your heart's desire. That's not to say that a few of the tales don't have some truth to them, but if a treasure exists for the finding, you will only recover it using proprietary information.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... That's not to say that a few of the tales don't have some truth to them,....

All of them have truth in them. Names, dates, events, around which the treasure-story is built. But the million dollar question is (no pun intended) : Is there a treasure ?

But as for your "horse-pucky" statement : Watch out. You don't wanna get reprimanded

 

[KANACKI]

Greetings all.

I just got back from Indonesia. I have some more things to Add.

You might like the following story below.

For centuries it was just a legend, that a vast trove of treasure had spilt into China’s Minjiang River as a battle raged upon its banks. Turns out, it was true.



Zhang Xianzhong or Chang Hsien-chung(September 18, 1606 – January 2, 1647), nicknamed Yellow Tiger, was a leader of a peasant revolt from Yan'an, Shaanxi Province. He conquered Sichuan in 1644, and named himself king of the Xi (Da-Xi) dynasty. His rule in Sichuan was brief and he was killed by the invading Manchu army. He is commonly associated with the massacres in Sichuan that depopulated the region.

One such treasure legend attributed to him. That he was traveling by boat along with looted treasure when he was counter attacked and most of the boats and treasure was lost in height of battle.



For centuries the treasure was lost believed by locals as a treasure legend. Academics at one time believed the story of lost treasure was nothing more than a legend.

However with advances in technology the lost treasure legend turned out to be True.



More than 10,000 individual items of gold and silver have been recovered from the bottom of the river as it winds its way through Sichuan Province.

Chinese archaeologists have confirmed its many pieces date from between 1368 and 1644AD.

This places it squarely in the scope of the tale of how the leader of a Chinese peasant uprising lost his hoard when ambushed while attempting to move it south aboard 100 boats.

For centuries, it was just a story. A rumour.

View attachment 1749370





“The objects uncovered are the most direct and compelling evidence to identify the area where the battle was fought,” Wang Wei, a Chinese archaeologist, told the state-run Xinhua news agency.

The trove was found at the intersection of the Minjiang and Jinjiang rivers, some 50km south of the capital of Sichuan, Chengdu.

It was 2005 when the first indications that the site may have significance emerged. Construction workers pulled seven silver bullion ingots from the gravel of the river bank. The site was declared a protected area in 2010, though Xinhua reports treasure hunters have repeatedly raided the site. Excavation efforts involved draining a 10,000 square meter section of the river using pumps and retaining walls. Large quantities of gold, silver and bronze were uncovered in the form of coins, jewellery and weapons.
Many pieces remain in good condition, the archaeologists report, with inscriptions on several gold and silver utensils still clear to read.

Archaeologists say they expect to continue digging at the site until April 2017.

A treasure legend verified by archaeologists with the discovery of treasure?

Kanacki

 

[Simon1]

What a great piece Kanacki. This is a wonderful example of how a "Legend" could be tied to an actual fact. I have always felt that there is a certain element of truth in a Legend, and perseverance may have proven this instance.

 

[KANACKI]

Hello Simon

As I have always said most treasure legends with research will turn out to be just legends. But there is some will turn out to have some truth to them. While its unrealistic to believe all treasure legends are true or all treasure legends are just legends.

Kanacki

 

[KANACKI]

Here is some more of the treasures uncovered.











I do not know the estimated value of the treasure discovered as far as I am aware the Chinese government has not put a value on it as it is claimed not doubt as cultural patrimony.

Kanacki

 

[KANACKI]

But the Yellow Tiger treasure legend above is not a singular event. As highlighted before just one of few treasure legends that have become reality.



There are others....

Kanacki

 

[KANACKI]

Hello Simon hopefully the pictures will come through. I have re posted them.

Kanacki

 

[KANACKI]

Here is another treasure legend that turned out to be true.

The adventure started when an elderly lady told one man that according to an ancient legend there is big, old silver treasure buried somewhere on a certain field in Jutland, Denmark.

The man told three friends about what he had heard. Now, the four of them had a choice to make. They could either dismiss the story as a work of fiction, or search for the legendary treasure.

They decided to find out if there really was an ancient treasure buried somewhere on Jutland and today, they cannot say they regret their decision.



They discovered 50 silver coins from the period 1586-1656. The four men behind the findings are Bjørn Christian Sorensen, Heinrich Olesen, Lars Hebsgaard and Simon Bay Kristensen.

On December 27, 2016, while scanning the ground on a field in Tjørring just outside Herning with metal detectors, the treasure hunters found something of great value.



The men do not wish to reveal the exact location of where the silver treasure was found, but the coins have been examined by experts who concluded they are genuine. Curator Martin Olesen at the local museum says the silver coins are very valuable and of great importance. All of the coins depict King Christian IV.



When asked why Danish people had to hide their money, Olesen explained that King Christian IV’s failed foreign policy should be blamed. People were simply terrified the Swedes would come and steal everything they owned, so to be on the safe side they buried their possessions.

Christian IV (1577-1648) was king of Denmark and Norway and brought disaster upon his country. He led two unsuccessful wars against Sweden and he led his country into the Thirty Years’ War, one of the longest and most destructive conflicts in European history.

While I have always stated treasure legends should be carefully researched for their validity. While some people outright dismiss treasure legends as pure folly?

I daresay that is their loss and other peoples potential gain.

Kanacki

 

[BillA]

Hi Kanacki
First heard about the river activity through an article on the increasing appearance of items leading the police to the smugglers to the formal discovery.
no idea where the article was

edit: actually remembered, see if it is as mentioned
http://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/46433

 

[KANACKI]

Hello Bill

Thanks for the link. I know looted coins have been leaking out of Hong Kong the last few years. I imagine the interrogation by the communists of the looters was not pretty.

But the fact of matter this discovery would never had been known if they had not been busted... One could speculate how many other treasure legends have been found but actually never see the light of day because they are illegally looted antiquities?

The coin below was sold for 16000 USD



Kanacki

 

[BillA]

Hi Kanacki

Don't have 16k, but lord that is a slick coin. Any idea what the characters mean? (Made in China, lol)
The site linked to is excellent for lovers of history, antiquities, and treasure as well.

Are those coins cast? Sure looks like that.
What is the name of the coin? (looked but could not find)

edit3: some answers
https://www.ebay.com/itm/39-Collect...531189?hash=item2acc7f73b5:g:VYkAAOSw4OJc49Yu

$3500.00
who wudda thought, a counterfeit cheaper than a (presumed) original

edit4: copy is a better label, not presented as genuine

 

[KANACKI]

Hello Bill

That's one of perils of Asian antiquities everything can be counterfeited. Its hard to know whats real and whats fake. The coin collecting industry are not immune to such fakes. The is big market with counterfeit roman coins. Same with South American artifacts.

Kanacki

 

[BillA]

Hi Kanacki

well at least in the US we know our tungsten is pure

 

[KANACKI]

As I have said many times many treasure legends are legends but some do have some truth to them and every now and again what is thought by many a treasure legend turns out to be true. While many think treasure legends are ancient legends? Yet many even in some of our life times treasure legends are born and evolves...and still evolving over time.

Pablo Escobar *was a notorious Colombian drug lord who died in 1993 at the height of his smuggling days. He supplied about 80% of the cocaine smuggled into the US. Escobar was known as*“The King of Cocaine”, he was the wealthiest criminal in history,*with an estimated net worth of US$30 billion. Obviously due to the nature of his business he was unable to use the banking system, hence he would bury his money underground in different locations in Colombia.*Most of the locations of these money pits went to the grave with Escobar.



At the height of its power, Pablo Escobar’s drug cartel was making so much money that they*had to spend $1000 per week purchasing rubber bands*to wrap their stacks of cash. That is insane!!!!!!!!!!!



Escobar had over 800 luxury mansions all over Colombia, owned football teams, he gave away billions of dollars to help build hospital’s, schools and rebuild homes for the homeless in Colombia.

Yet after his death in several countries legends and stories sprang up about hidden money.

Another treasure legend was born......

Many are indeed wishful think that through hearsay develop into legends. Some times some stories are true than become more and more blurred in each retelling.

However treasure hoards do spring up. Such as the money discovered below.



a Colombian farmer was reported to have found $600 million of Escobar's money buried in a field near Medellin after digging up the land to start a palm oil plantation.

The money was wrapped and sealed in plastic bags and placed into water proof plastic bags.



Nice find if he got to keep some of it.....Sadly the government it appears took the lot.....

There is an old saying you can have fame or have money....



Kanacki

 

[KANACKI]

As you can see my friends in some circumstances that is why it pays to keep ones mouth shut.....

Kanacki

 

[KANACKI]

Escobar himself was shot to death by drug enforcement agents and his own former associates in Colombia in 1993, but his legacy, and fantastic wealth, lives on to this day.

So much so that Christian de Berdouare, who bought Escobar's former Miami mansion in 2014 for $10million, believes there could be hidden treasure stashed inside the property.

He said: 'We have put together a team and we have had all kinds of people... with metal detectors, sonar, all kinds of things, in order to determine if there is anything hidden.

'It could be cash, could be gold, could be jewelry, could be dead bodies -- could be anything.'

De Berodouare, the CEO of restaurant chain Chicken Kitchen, says he plans to demolish the home and build a bigger property in its place.

But before doing so, he is being extremely cautious about what could be hidden in the house.
He is perhaps right to be cautious after Escobar's brother, Roberto, revealed in his 2009 book that the mobster had a habit of literally burying his wealth to keep it hidden from authorities.

Roberto, the former accountant of the Medellin Cartel which his brother ran, has refused to reveal the exact location of any of these hiding spots.

His information proved to be well-founded however, as months after his book was published a $8million haul was uncovered in vaults beneath a jungle compound built for Escobar.

Following Escobar's death, and particularly since the release of Roberto's book, treasure hunters have scoured his old properties and safehouses in search of hidden riches, though few discoveries have been reported.

Christian de Berdouare did find an old hidden safe in demolished escobar's Miami property.





Did he find anything in it? After seeing what happened to others that have found such things perhaps he smart not to say anything at all?

Regardless we cannot say its treasure legend that turned into reality because the fact we just do not know. We cannot blame him for not saying anything?



Regardless of if there is some thing inside? Some times a treasure legend is better off for the finder being just a treasure legend.

Kanacki

 

[KANACKI]

Hello all

Here is more searches for Escobar loot.



Kanacki