John Site

[mannings]

Anyone have an example of a bible verse used as a clue to the treasure at a John Site? (very sincere question)

 

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[seekeroforo]

Just a tag.

Count me in.

 

[Blind.In.Texas]

Not my info:

"Matthew is represented by a lion, Mark is represented by an ox, Luke is represented by a man and John is represented as an eagle. Chapter and Verse should be indicated in plain text, rarely in code. Some books of the Bible are represented by a letter (Spanish used T for Tobit, from the apocryphal books of the Catholic Bible) or JAS for the book of James. If you are working on Spanish signs I recommend the Duoay-Rheims Catholic Bible for the apocryha and if you are working on KGC signs, I recommend the King James translation). The famous ‘Bible Tree’ in Arkansas has several Bible directions on it and rumor has it that at least three small caches were located from these Bible directionals."

http://thunting.com/smf/knights_of_..._map_jesse_james_kgc_gold-t9511.10.html;wap2=

 

[okey dokey]

To help you remember who represents what just remember Revalations 4:7

okey dokey

 

[Old Dog]

Find a Catholic version of the Bible to start with.
The Spanish were devout Catholics.

The Catholic version has at least one book the King James doesn't, Tobias is one.
When the T is found on a Spanish site it usually referrs to the book of Tobias.

Some of the Verses from the book of John
chapter 7 verse 3
chapter 9 verse 3

Study a bit of Biblical geography and these verses will make sense.
Many of the references are directional.

 

[Blind.In.Texas]

Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible
http://www.drbo.org/

King James
http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/



There is a 'T' in post #59. Plain as day. You can't miss it. Eagle on the right. Swallow, sparrow, woodpecker.....whatever...... on the left

 

[kiddrock33]

john the baptist/john the evangulist. the baptist will make sure you pass under water.

 

[motownmm]

In my case the bible verses on a rock triangle gave several instructions.
Which punch mark to use or not use---which measurement to use and how to verify that it is or isn't the right one---when to change from the book of John to another book---how to find the "key" number to use for translation of inches to feet---and what you are to find here.

 

[Clay Lindsey]

Just wanted to add one thing...

It was previously written on another post about the Bell sign and the Duck being associated with a John site. Well, I have found one instance where both signs were present on site, but DID NOT translate into 31 and 39 respectively as reported earlier. The distances were irregular and not by an equal ratio as to indicate a missing multiplier within the signs. Additionally, in this instance, the duck did face away from an "important" sign which unlocked this portion of the site, which could be atypical as well. That's about as much FREE as I wanna give away... It took a lot of noodling to get the final answer.

Clay

 

[stevesno]

Just wanted to add one thing...

It was previously written on another post about the Bell sign and the Duck being associated with a John site. Well, I have found one instance where both signs were present on site, but DID NOT translate into 31 and 39 respectively as reported earlier. The distances were irregular and not by an equal ratio as to indicate a missing multiplier within the signs. Additionally, in this instance, the duck did face away from an "important" sign which unlocked this portion of the site, which could be atypical as well. That's about as much FREE as I wanna give away... It took a lot of noodling to get the final answer.

Clay

Clay do I understand right that 31 is supposed to represents a bell and 39 a duck in some instances? Does this come from the book of John?... Thanks Steve

 

[Clay Lindsey]

It was reported by another member, some time ago, in an older thread. The claim was the association of both symbols with a John Site. In this one instance, I can verify the inclusion of both of these symbols in conjunction with the eagle; a known John reference.

I have scoured my research bible for Bell references. It is only referenced twice and neither are in the Book of John. I couldn't find a meaningful reference to the word "Duck" in the bible.

As for the numerical value of 31 (B+E+L+L=31) and 39 (D+U+C+K=39), it is inconsistent with my current findings on this one particular site. The assumption a Spanish speaking people would use an Arabic alphabet conversion for an English word seemed a little off to me to begin with. The Spanish word for Bell (Church) is Sustantivo. The Spanish word for Duck is Pato.

But, as I am not in the habit of openly challenging the believe system of another, I simply wanted to present my findings so that others may be able to draw there own conclusions, based on more than one source of information. I hope this helps.

Clay

 

[rangler]

Clay had written,
As for the numerical value of 31 (B+E+L+L=31) and 39 (D+U+C+K=39), it is inconsistent with my current findings on this one particular site. The assumption a Spanish speaking people would use an Arabic alphabet conversion for an English word seemed a little off to me to begin with. The Spanish word for Bell (Church) is Sustantivo. The Spanish word for Duck is Pato.

The reason the Jesuits would use an English Alphabet is very few people in the world spoke English, so it was another layer of very effective code that would keep people confused for couple of centuries, using the same logic.

The numerical values are correct but are not derived from the Bible, just another peice of the jigsaw puzzle that is the Spanish Code.These are normally the final instructions from the Omega monument. Remember the numerical values are not in feet, but varas, appox 34" to the vara.

In one case I had two figures AND a sight monument, actually trianglulate the dig spot. An owl, a dove and a peep hole sight.
Counting off , one against the other gave confirmation, and the peep sight was redundant, but valuable if one of the other monument had been destroyed by nature or man.
hope this helps as well
rangler

 

[Old Dog]

in my dealings with Jesuit written text,
when the text is coded there is a notification on every coded page.

The notification is a biblical reference to John, 7:47.

"Have you also been led astray?"
a warning thyat the text is heavily coded

The codes may be group or site specific.
I have no encounter with an English code on any of the 100 + pages I am working with.

 

[Clay Lindsey]

Rangler,

There is no doubt that Treasure Hunters from all over the world have benefitted from some of the very same sources of information, to include you and I both. The intent of my post was to assist others in their pursuit of what they feel to be the most useful to them. We do agree on the significance of the Duck and the Bell with regard to their presence on a John Site. However, it would be the specifics of their arrangement to where we would begin to disagree. And that's an okay thing. If I were to write a bibliography for the information I have used to work this site, you Sir, would be on that list.

As with any unknown source, I take the information I gather at face value. This would be my advice for anyone who reads or has read anything I have written in these forums. Take it, use it and if it doesn't work for you. Just throw it away. In this instance, I wanted to go one step further and provide results from the use of the information, found here, on this forum. And once again. If it works for someone, good. If not, I won't get butthurt.

The issue is, the English knew english. England and Spain, when not engaged in absolute war, would have been the fiercest of economic competitors. Especially, here in the new world. It is because of that I have my reservations on the use of English as secret code for the Spanish. Further, I believe that with such ongoing contention between England and Spain, if any of these coded letters (and whatnot) were found, it would substantiate a reasonable claim for treason because of how out of place they would have seemed. The Jesuits had moderate success in getting coded-Spanish letters back and forth. Why would they change the game up to something more obvious?

Clay

 

[Blind.In.Texas]

Clay had written,
As for the numerical value of 31 (B+E+L+L=31) and 39 (D+U+C+K=39), it is inconsistent with my current findings on this one particular site. The assumption a Spanish speaking people would use an Arabic alphabet conversion for an English word seemed a little off to me to begin with. The Spanish word for Bell (Church) is Sustantivo. The Spanish word for Duck is Pato.

The reason the Jesuits would use an English Alphabet is very few people in the world spoke English, so it was another layer of very effective code that would keep people confused for couple of centuries, using the same logic.

The numerical values are correct but are not derived from the Bible, just another peice of the jigsaw puzzle that is the Spanish Code.These are normally the final instructions from the Omega monument. Remember the numerical values are not in feet, but varas, appox 34" to the vara.

In one case I had two figures AND a sight monument, actually trianglulate the dig spot. An owl, a dove and a peep hole sight.
Counting off , one against the other gave confirmation, and the peep sight was redundant, but valuable if one of the other monument had been destroyed by nature or man.
hope this helps as well
rangler

Interesting concept to use a language, that is foreign to one's self, as part of the decepetion process. I see how that would put a serious cramp in the style of any hunter. I fail to see how your 'case' relates to Clay's findings unless you added up the numerical values of the spellings of the owl and the dove. Now, was your case Church, Royal, or Expeditionary? Unless I am wrong, the official Church and Royal protocols did not alot a place for English terminology. Thanks in advance.

Mike

 

[Shortstack]

Back when these trails and markers were being laid out, wasn't the "English" in use actually "Old English" or "Middle English" as some call it. Would the words bell, duck, and church be the same?? Sounds like maybe those clues were "installed" later by some Johnnies-come-lately; such as the KGC?? After all, the original KJB was in Old English, too.

Just musing again.

 

[Clay Lindsey]

S/S,

While I would not disagree with you that the KGC (uh-oh) did lay signs/symbols, in this one instance, it doesn't seem plausible that these in particular were done by them. On this site, I have been using what I am learning about both groups to help discover more about each other and how (why) newer signs were laid on top of this pre-existing trail.

That aside, being that I have determined the Bell and Duck to be part of the original trail, these signs were in existance prior to the KGC (uh-oh again). That doesn't exempt the possibility of the creation of a new "set of rules" created after the Spanish that would include the use of the English language. Additionally, if an english code were created (post-Spanish), it would not mean that it were incorrect. In all fairness, an English-based code could be very legitimate if the person creating the sign intended it to be meaningful.

The fact is, we don't know. And until we are able to get past this difference of opinion and realize the standardization of all of these S/S only went so far. Picasso and Michelanglo were both artists, but given the chance to create their representation of the same sign, they would look markedly different. I have three of the same type of sign with 1/4 mile and none of those resemble each other and they were most probably created by the same person.

Anyhow, for posterity... The numbers associated with the BELL (31) and DUCK (39) on this ONE PARTICULAR SITE, which are commonly believed to be a reference to measurement of a third point, are not distances equaling 31 and 39 (varas). The actual numbers differ greatly and are correct due to my ability to successfully continue along the trail to the next point.

It is what it is...

Clay

 

[Shortstack]

Clay,
I think I understand what you're saying. I'm just pointing out that the Spanish / Jesuit would not have been using modern English in their codes. They would have used Old English and the words bell, etc. wouldn't have been the same in Old English as they are in modern English. So, the modern English had to have been utilized by some one or group much later, no matter what their purpose was / is.

 

[Old Dog]

When we look at these things we must think in very relative terms.

What was relative ...Back then.
Things relative may be most foreign to us now, and will cause us to change the way we think.

For example the Spanish language has changed so much in the last 400 years that the original Castillian is spoken only in a few places on Earth, it is as foreign a language to someone speaking Modern Spanish as it would be to us.

The measuring system while similar was very different in it's measures.
The Spanish foot is made of 12 Spanish inches,
this isn't a problem until you find out a Spanish inch is .914 modern inches.

A vara is 33 inches (Spanish inches)
people wonder why they don't find anything!
they use modern inches to make the vara.
Using Spanish inches makes a vara 30 modern inches long.

We make so much into so little.
We take something very simple with very strict rules and complicate the heck out of it.
we add things because we don't see enough or forget the rules these guys worked by.

These guys used simple logical steps to leave a stash
skip a step, you won't find it. not even by accident.

Give it a thought and argue all you want guys.
the codes used by the everyday Spanish were hard enough for most of us.
The jesuit codes don't have the rules and will set you on your ear.

 

[Springfield]

Find a Catholic version of the Bible to start with ......

When you determine who was in charge of writing the KJ version, maybe you'll change your mind about this.