Fortified position for lost village????

[Chadeaux]

Sorry, I got confused which thread I was responding to. Removed post.

 

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[Quinoa]

Have you ever found a tree shaped like the open four.

Most of mine are shaped like a Y or possibly a hebrew alphabet letter like the Ayin symbol meaning "eye" or another Y shaped one. You could call it the open 4 shape , but it's more rounded on the bottom and more "y " ish, and most will look almost like this one. I've seen a couple that have the flat part bottom, not sure If I have photoed them. I seen some that they made the stair step pattern with a limb. many of these things can have multiple meanings, it can be difficult to figure which, but usually there are other markers near them anyways which can pretty much be seen when you stand near them.

They will also have the lower limbs trimmed back so you can see the forking easier from a distance. They look like a manicured tree from someone's backyard in the city.

 

[Quinoa]

Here's a forked tree with a crotch. The tree behind it lines up like a gunsite at 202.5 degrees ( a half quadrant on a compass split into 45 degree increments) , I'm standing on the line up and it goes behind me over to a small triangle of boulders about 231 feet away. Now the odd thing on this one, is that there is something visibly dug quite some time ago just off the side of it, probably an old cache or burial dug up and moved, (I don't think it's a mine). It's in the back country a bit and has a tree triangle near a trail that points over to it. Anyways a couple photos of the rock pile and hole off to the side.

Edit, actually I had to go back and look thru my files, the 202.5 degree was actually 240 degrees thru the tree, I mis-remembered it. 240/60 , 330/150, 210/30 , 300/120 degrees are pretty common bearings using trees. The 202.5 I've seen a lot on old boulder alignments.

 

[orangeman]

Thanks Quinoa I’ll get some pictures of two that I remember and post them on my site. One of them died this year so i need to get pictures and do some studying before it’s gone.

 

[Nwaher]

Have you ever found a tree shaped like the open four.

Yes looks like a goal post to me

 

[Chadeaux]

Have you ever found a tree shaped like the open four.

Yes looks like a goal post to me

4 tree . . . there are dozens around here in different widths and heights. Some mark water, this one marked a trail exit (Indian trail trees often showed where to exit the trail ... not treasure). This one marked the exit from the Wheeler Trace (an old Buffalo trail that later became a stage coach route in the mid 19th century) ... however, you will also find hoot owl trees along these paths as well. I have one along the same trace that was likely done by John Morrell (actually saw a drawing of it by him years before finding the tree).



This one marked a spring (near Fordyce, AR). Approached the landowner for permission to take a pic, started the conversation by saying, "So, how far in that direction is the spring?" He was curious how I knew about the hidden spring, told him the tree showed me and got to shoot some pics. BTW, sometimes the direction is not what you think. The spring this one marked was to the right, the lake marked by the first was to the left. Folks who assume all these trees are treasure trees are missing a lot of neat history.

The goalpost trees look more like this:

 

[orangeman]

. Look close there’s another tree to.

 

[OZARKS]

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CAACAG_enUS578US578&biw=1366&bih=629&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=yLiAWpSPBcTRjwS15r_gDA&q=bank+barn+foundation&oq=bank+barn+foundation&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i24k1.25095.32055.0.32318.24.15.2.7.7.0.99.1131.15.15.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.24.1173...0j0i67k1j0i10k1j0i13k1.0.lKeH2ERqkUw

Most likely one side of a "bank barn" where one side of the foundation is raised to level a barn or house built on a hillside....

Since I live in same area as you, I have seen them many times.

 

[Quinoa]

Not to be too controversial , but there are alot of trail markers that others have made use of for other things. Since they found them pointing near something or being positioned where a good place is to do something, they always assumed that's what they were there for, and they have passed that information on down, and the next in line just assumes it has always been used that way because he was told so.. It is not unusual to find vaults near water sources, the people doing the vaults needed water as well. Having been an avid outdoorsman all my life , I still don't know why anyone would ever think they need to mark a spring or water source, unless it's in the desert, they are easy to find, just look for the birds, animal trails and green vegetation. It's the same with how people used to say things marked a campsite, if they needed a marker to mark places suitable to camp they would have never survived. Go on a week long pack trip or backpack trip and you'll see you can survive without springs or campsites being pointed out for you.

 

[Chadeaux]

I still don't know why anyone would ever think they need to mark a spring or water source, unless it's in the desert, they are easy to find, just look for the birds, animal trails and green vegetation.

I have heard folks ask that question before, you would need to also remember that in my area, it was always heavily wooded. The stories I've heard that were handed down in this area from generations past, involve a heavy canopy where one could sometimes see quite a way, but more often could only see a short distance. (down in the delta - floodplain of the Mississippi River - some claimed that a rider could sometimes see as far as a mile away because heavy brush could not grow because the canopy blocked the light it needed).

These markers were often "exit signs". Of course, on the interstate system today you could probably follow the fast food debris to an eating establishment, but isn't it better to know where to get off the road to get a bite?

The big problem is folks assume the NDN's (I can say that because I am one) were unintelligent. Wrong! No, rather they were just as innovative as others but without a written language (except the Cherokee, and I'm not sure their written language didn't evolve from something they learned to read).

What you are saying isn't "controversial" but perhaps influenced by others' opinions.

 

[Quinoa]

I know of several historical markers /Native american markers that are very old treasure marker monuments, I'm sure the Natives saw something odd in them too, or even had something happen at them, regardless they became part of their history. There is a bunch of stuff that is just sitting around in plain site and wrote off as natural, not to mention the historical markers or whatever as there is no older or better history on them and no average educated person would even consider the treasure factor let alone look into it.

If something stands out from the surroundings, I would suggest first treating it as suspect and looking for other oddities in the area such as out of place boulders, marked/blazed or manipulated trees, unexplained piles of rock, etc. I would look at the landscape and all of it's features as a medium for geometry as in compass alignments, measurements, angles, geometric shapes etc. If it truly is treasure related, other things will start to stand out and make mathematical sense in that it has an intelligent design behind it all vs naturally occurring or some other reason. And yes there are property boundary markers as well that will fall into the geometric category. There are also property boundaries that just use old treasure markers as well. Alot of the stuff is all marked out right under your nose, it's meant to appear fairly natural and you wouldn't likely give it a first look let alone a second. Why would you? We are educated not too. Sometimes society as whole is too smart for it's own good, and I'm sure many people would think the same statement about me.

 

[Nwaher]

View attachment 1549290

4 tree . . . there are dozens around here in different widths and heights. Some mark water, this one marked a trail exit (Indian trail trees often showed where to exit the trail ... not treasure). This one marked the exit from the Wheeler Trace (an old Buffalo trail that later became a stage coach route in the mid 19th century) ... however, you will also find hoot owl trees along these paths as well. I have one along the same trace that was likely done by John Morrell (actually saw a drawing of it by him years before finding the tree).

View attachment 1549295

This one marked a spring (near Fordyce, AR). Approached the landowner for permission to take a pic, started the conversation by saying, "So, how far in that direction is the spring?" He was curious how I knew about the hidden spring, told him the tree showed me and got to shoot some pics. BTW, sometimes the direction is not what you think. The spring this one marked was to the right, the lake marked by the first was to the left. Folks who assume all these trees are treasure trees are missing a lot of neat history.

The goalpost trees look more like this:

View attachment 1549292

Ok no goal post I must say only one tree so far and this is it

 

[Maverick1]

Not to be too controversial , but there are alot of trail markers that others have made use of for other things. Since they found them pointing near something or being positioned where a good place is to do something, they always assumed that's what they were there for, and they have passed that information on down, and the next in line just assumes it has always been used that way because he was told so.. It is not unusual to find vaults near water sources, the people doing the vaults needed water as well. Having been an avid outdoorsman all my life , I still don't know why anyone would ever think they need to mark a spring or water source, unless it's in the desert, they are easy to find, just look for the birds, animal trails and green vegetation. It's the same with how people used to say things marked a campsite, if they needed a marker to mark places suitable to camp they would have never survived. Go on a week long pack trip or backpack trip and you'll see you can survive without springs or campsites being pointed out for you.

The modern hicker vs. the ancient explorer…..and their M/O’s ?

The modern hiker/camper, in a party of 2 or 3 or 4-6 have different needs and different rules, than a party of 300 or more,…. hundreds of years ago.

I’m trying to imagine the leader of such party, shouting at his 300+ henchmen:…”OK men, listen up…..everybody start looking for birds and animals going to the water. If you don’t get that,….NO WATER TONIGHT for y’all. And when you return,…find yourself a place to crash for the night.”
It may be a little difficult to keep order, with so many un-happy campers….who need to fend for
themselves and still obey the scope of that expedition.

Thus, it makes more sense that larger outfits,…. had to have a plan, based on previous experience and marked trails and marked resources,….including a camp site.

Today, we have sleeping bags, canned or pre-packed foods, a nice cold brewsky from the cooler and different transportation.
And going camping/hiking is a leisure activity, not a modus Vivendi with dangers around the corner.
(but everything is possible for the seasoned outdoorsman, if he has enough survival books under his pillow... lol)
And this is also… Not to be too controversial. Peace

 

[Quinoa]

Then why not just nail a board to a tree or carve "spring" into it? Many of the trees aren't that old and water is not that big of a thing to keep secret from everyone.

 

[Chadeaux]

Then why not just nail a board to a tree or carve "spring" into it? Many of the trees aren't that old and water is not that big of a thing to keep secret from everyone.

... because, as stated before, we had no written language.

Besides, we used stone tools. Have you ever seen a stone nail?

Much easier to bend a tree that lasts for hundreds of years, more efficient, more logical.

Yeah, that fancy Bonsai tree that is less than 18" but 800 years old. It isn't a miniature species, it is a regular tree. Binding and pruning are why it is so small. Trail trees were made by binding and pruning ... which restricts growth. I've seen bent trees only about 10" in diameter that cored out in 2007 to have been older than the constitution.

 

[OZARKS]

Those trees are easily created, all it takes is a fallen tree on a young sapling, it continues to grow, and you get those shapes. Some countries lay huge rocks on them and there are entire forests crafted that way. I know a tree up the road from my house looks exactly like these trees, problem is, they're simply from branches breaking off on side, etc.

Neat to speculate, but these trees are wayyyyy too young to be anything native indian or otherwise "old" 50 years old, sure, hundreds and hundreds, nah...

Sure I'll be lambasted for saying these things, but it forgive me, I'm not easily superstitious about things that are easily explained.

DID trail and pointing trees serve a purpose at one time? Sure they did... but this is 2018...lol

 

[Chadeaux]

No superstition involved. We have this neat thing called science that can prove yes or no ... is the tree old enough.

Amazing what a tree falling on a tree can do. This one happened about 1200 C.E. (A.D.), we know because its been cored and confirmed. The tree probably looked like this 150 years before Columbus made it across the pond:

Funny how nature made that buffalo and knew where to put the horn ... or how to make the turtle, or the fish.

 

[OZARKS]

No superstition involved. We have this neat thing called science that can prove yes or no ... is the tree old enough.

Amazing what a tree falling on a tree can do. This one happened about 1200 C.E. (A.D.), we know because its been cored and confirmed. The tree probably looked like this 150 years before Columbus made it across the pond:

Funny how nature made that buffalo and knew where to put the horn ... or how to make the turtle, or the fish.

View attachment 1549743

Burled or diseased wood isn't anything new, if you want to make characters out of it, so be it LOL I didn't see a buffalo, but will take your word for it


I live in a forest and can go take pics of it happening right now!...Like i said, the pics I commented on aren't older than 50 years, new growth



On second thought, I will just stick with my mantra, know what I know and let the rest go...lmao

 

[Quinoa]

Here's a historian's Native American viewpoint on the trees :


There's other videos out there, there's even a tv show I saw. Truthfully It's hard for me to watch them without shaking my head and laughing. I can see a few being manipulated for a cultural reason, But I've seen too many of these things in the field and followed them out to where they lead. btw the goal post type trees, they didn't have an explanation for them, and a few trees they said it used to mean something, but the meaning was lost in time. Anyways, prayer trees, "doorway" trees, ones signifying a burial of a warrior many years ago, springs, trails, even ones pointing at nothing they are aware of. etc, etc, and heck all of that in one park in Colorado.
I may have believed all this 20 years ago, and don't blame you for thinking it as well. Keep searching around them, with geometry in mind, though that's all I can say. I given quite a few ways to use them on different threads here, perhaps it will help somebody.

There was another guy on the kgc boards here maybe a couple years back that posted some great info on how he was using the trees. I'd have to read a bunch to find him again. I think he mentioned the goal post type and to look anywhere from 300-600 feet straight thru the uprights.

 

[Quinoa]

Here, one more video :

In this video Paul Tabbey (RIP) waits till the end of this series to take someone to an undisclosed mine (took him to it in the dark so as to make very difficult to refind) known only by his people and passed down in secrecy. You see the tribes keep their own secrets, for their own reasons, they aren't going to come right out and say something is a mine marker or precious mineral related if it's in anyway sacred to them. They will make up another story and that is the one you will hear unless you are in the loop and trusted to keep secrets.