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M

Maverick

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Here is what was splashed all over the front of AOL's News section this Sunday:


A Penny for Your Thoughts, and 1.4 Cents for the Penny

By FLOYD NORRIS, The New York Times

(April 22) - What happens if a penny is worth more than 1 cent?

That is an issue the United States Mint could soon face if the price of metals keeps rising. Already it costs the mint well more than a cent to make a penny.


Last year, the U.S. Mint made 7.7 billion pennies -- more than the number of all the other coins it produced.

Jump Below: Penny Quiz

More Coverage:
· Rare Pennies Enter Circulation
· Do You Pick Up Pennies?

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This week the cost of the metals in a penny rose above 0.8 cents, more than twice the value of last fall. Because the government spends at least another six-tenths of a cent — above and beyond the cost of the metal — to make each penny, it will lose nearly half a cent on each new one it mints.

The real problem could come if metals prices rise so high that it would be economical to melt down pennies for the metals they contain.


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Appearances aside, pennies no longer contain much copper. In the middle of 1982, after copper prices rose to record levels, the mint starting making pennies that consist mostly of zinc, with just a thin copper coating.

But these days, zinc is newly popular. Rising industrial demand and speculation have sent the price rocketing. Since the end of 2003, zinc prices have tripled. Gold, by contrast, is up only about 50 percent.

"What is really new in the commodity world is the extent to which hard commodities have been converted to financial assets through exchange-traded funds and hedge funds," said Ed Yardeni, the chief investment strategist of Oak Associates.

"In the late 90's," Mr. Yardeni added, "my hedge fund friends were all experts in technology. Now all they talk about is zinc, lead and oil. There is a lot of money that has poured into these areas."

That may mean that a bubble is brewing, but Mr. Yardeni thinks the run is not yet over.

Asked if the mint had a backup plan for what it will do if zinc prices rise far enough that it could pay to melt down pennies, a spokesman said that such issues were for Congress to decide. Perhaps the mint could go back to making steel pennies, as it did during World War II when copper was needed for the war effort.


Take the Penny Quiz



AP

· More Penny Trivia

Pennies, meanwhile, are in high demand. Last year, the mint made 7.7 billion of them — more than the number of all the other coins it produced. In the first three months of this year, the pace of penny production rose to an annual rate of 9 billion — the highest since 2001.

Why so many? Perhaps there is now some hoarding in expectation that metal prices will keep rising, but mostly it is an issue of sales taxes, which in most states are added to the retail price and assure that the total price of many items will require pennies to be given in change if a customer pays with dollar bills. That helps explain why the idea of eliminating the penny has gone nowhere.

So retailers demand pennies from their banks, the banks demand them from the Federal Reserve, and the Fed orders them from the mint. Many of the people who get the pennies in change throw them into a jar, where they may sit for years, requiring the mint to make more and more of them.

And, at these prices, lose money on every one.
 

MalteseFalcon

Bronze Member
Aug 17, 2005
1,338
100
I just did some research yesterday on buliding home smelters.

The price of copper is defintely pretty high these days, and wanted to find out what would be involved in melting pennies haha.

Firstly, it is (of course) illegal.

Secondly, it takes about 143 pennies to make a pound.

Third, you would have to sort through pennies to get only pre-1982.

THEN you could sell the copper to a metal recycling place.

I even called a recycling center out of curiosity. As of yesterday (6/14/06) they were paying $2.50/lb for copper.

Not worth trying to melt them down, deal with possible legal issues, etc.

But if the price of copper gets any higher, I am sure someone will start doing stuff like that.
 

snake35

Hero Member
Jul 25, 2005
918
25
West Virginia
I do not believe that it is illegal to melt/scrap U.S. coins. I have started hoarding copper pennies myself. When i search through rolls for wheats I throw all of the pre-1982's into a coffee can. If nothing ever happens I will not be out much since intrest rates are so low. Good luck.
 

ClonedSIM

Silver Member
Jul 28, 2005
3,808
24
New Mexico
Detector(s) used
White's XLT
I'm not 100% on this, but I seem to recall that defacing any US currency from the $1.00 note down and any coin is not illegal. After all, if it was then all the companies that make the trick/magic coins would have been rounded up already
 

csandfor

Newbie
Nov 4, 2004
1
0
I think this issue was brought up before about if it was illegal to deface money/melt down. I think the closes wording I can remember is that it is illegal to deface money for the purpose of counterfeiting or increasing the value of the coin. Such as was the case when the shield? nickel was being gold plated and being passed off as a 5 dollar gold coin or when ones were being made to look like twenties. That is why it is not illegal to have elongated or squished coins.
 

RatRacer

Sr. Member
May 23, 2006
339
1
Trafford, PA
From the USMint.gov site- type "law" into the FAQ search, the first question is asking if it is illegal to deface or alter coins. the answer states-
"Section 331 of Title 18 of the United States code provides criminal penalties for anyone who “fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens any of the coins coined at the Mints of the United States.” This statute means that you may be violating the law if you change the appearance of the coin and fraudulently represent it to be other than the altered coin that it is. As a matter of policy, the Mint does not promote coloring, plating or altering U.S. coinage: however, there are no sanctions against such activity absent fraudulent intent."
It doesn't appear to be illegal to melt coins for scrap, but I don't think the mint would be very happy about it...
 

Visionquest

Full Member
Aug 2, 2005
223
3
There has been both on the tube and on the web where I have seen a Rep from the US mint state clearly that it is not illegal to melt coins. In his words, "if you have them, you are the owner" and you can do what you want with them as long as you are not modifying them for misrepresentation as mentioned. Just like Art, if you own it, you can destroy it with no fear, but don't try to pass it for something it isn't.
 

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