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Thread: Dutch Schultz Catskill Treasure

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  1. #31
    JT
    JT is offline

    Mar 2005
    Goose Creek, South Carolina
    175
    22 times

    Re: Dutch Schultz Catskill Treasure

    Well, Einstein, congratulations. You are the proud discoverer of...a hole. An empty one, at that. It's too bad that "Current Affair" couldn't do your tv special. They could have drawn tens of viewers to watch them film...a hole.

    Hey, Geraldo did that special years ago on Capone's secret room. Maybe you can get him to do a three hour special on...your hole.

    I know where some empty holes are. In fact, if you want, I'll dig some extra ones. You can tell people they contained KGC treasure, King Solomon's treasure, the Holy Grail, Blackbeards treasure, or Noah's Ark. I'll give you full credit.

    Your picture of the tree totally shoots down your theory. The fact that someone scraped bark and exposed relatively fresh wood on a tree that would have to be 75 or 80 years old, but has the size of one that is maybe 20 or 30 years old at the most, proves you wrong. Hardwoods can keep bark on them long after dying. Pines don't. For that tree to be genuine, it would have had to have died in the 1960's. You would not be able to scrape bark to get to fresh wood. Commonsense goes a long ways.

    Try searching for Bigfoot, leprechuans, or little green men from Mars. You'll have better luck finding them than you will convincing people the latrine site you found used to hold treasure.


  2. #32

    Dec 2004
    164
    38 times

    Re: Dutch Schultz Catskill Treasure

    brhorn, If you're still interested here is more. My lunch break was too short to finish my response yesterday. You are quite correct that the story has been diluted. I assumed you have the Schurmacher account of this story, since you made reference to the April time frame. However, upon reviewing, Conway's account mentions April also. If you have Conway's book, check the bibliography. It lists the Schurmacher account as reference. Upon dissecting Conway's account, you would find that it is, to oversimiplify, Schurmacher's account, plus local rumors. After the treasure story became publicized in late 1934, locals began to recall chance encounters with Dutch, that they then attached significance to, convincing themselves that it was connected to the treasure story. Then add one psychic for good measure, and you have Conway's account, not to criticize his work. He was provided the info, so what else could he do but write it up. The addition of the local rumors, plus the psychic, is how a factual account gets demoted to the realm of legend. Research is not simply the discovery of unknown info, but can very well be, as in this case, sifting through the irrelevant info. If you think that Schultz was the type to have let locals have a clue where he hid his personal fortune, that he intended to rely on for the future, you have misjudged him. The locals may have had an audience, as they told their tales, and maybe got a few free drinks at the local tavern, but you can be sure their stories were worth nothing more. The proof is in the fact that no local ever found it. You can write off the psychic also. If you take Conway's book and winnow out the chaff, you are left with the Schurmacher account. So, if you want to follow up with this, you need the Schurmacher account. Take this post for example, I reported my discovery, which coincided with all known facts, in the exact kind of spot Schultz would have looked for, and found the carving he used to mark his spot, which I posted. As an object lesson, look what happened here. Then, as the locals did with the Schultz story, along comes a couple , who have never been there, and attempt to debunk my findings, insulting me both personally and as a TH'er. If you appreciate the result of careful, methodical research, here it is. I'm stubborn but not pig-headed. I've simply been there. The tree was the marker, carved by Schultz' own hand, and I've provided the info to my peers, who, I hope, appreciate it, even if they don't accept it.
    DiggerGal likes this.

  3. #33

    Dec 2004
    164
    38 times

    Re: Dutch Schultz Catskill Treasure

    As there are few treasures here in the northeast, there are undoubtedly many who would still seek this fortune. I started this thread for them. There is no way to prove that a gangster, who intended to keep it secret, recovered this treasure. In spite of what is posted above, I have continued to provide my maps to thoughtful, intelligent people, who convince me that they will share the responsibility of protecting this site. Some vicious clowns have pretended to read trees, and concocted an elaborate conspiracy theory, using my very own pic. However, I believe the moderator has toned down their static, at least I hope so. Perhaps, in the subconscious minds of some, they resent to notion that certain treasures are no longer there waiting for them. Who knows? Though, I got a little testy, I've tried to be modest and informative. However, let me put modesty aside. I am the only one to have solved this puzzle, and am proud of it. brhorn, before your next trip to Phoenicia, PM me. I still go up there once in a while. If you want to see for yourself perhaps I can arrange it. There is one more tidbit of info that may be available at a local business. My final trip up there will be to look for that, and we could get a pizza and beer at the same time. The info on the map indicated that near the turnoff, from Rt 28, there is a structure that Lulu labeled as "Lodging for Hunters and Fishermen". That business still stands, and is open for business. The last detail will be to approach them and see if they found any such sign on the premises, when they bought it.

  4. #34
    us
    Jul 2005
    indiana
    Tesoro Lobo ST, Whites MXT and TDi,Garrett AT Pro and Ace 250
    108
    31 times
    Prospecting

    Re: Dutch Schultz Catskill Treasure,show us the MAP?

    Can somebody please post the MAP of this treasure site? I'd like to see if my map dowsed location was on the money or not?
    Thanks-

    Tom,in Illinois

  5. #35

    Dec 2004
    164
    38 times

    Re: Dutch Schultz Catskill Treasure

    Tom, e-mail me at my web address. The maps are my own, I created them during my search, and, after finding the spot, the maps now show right where it was. Dowsing is somewhat mysterious to me. With the treasure gone, you still believe you can find where it was? There's a significant landmark, which is probably very obvious to a student of these posts, who has done background research. Let me know if you hit it, and what town it's in. We can talk about the maps.

  6. #36
    ZumbroKid

    Re: Dutch Schultz Catskill Treasure

    Nice story on the treasure location. Thanks for posting it.

  7. #37

    Dec 2004
    164
    38 times

    Re: Dutch Schultz Catskill Treasure

    You're quite welcome Zumbro. I was getting worried that nobody was reading this.

  8. #38
    ZumbroKid

    Re: Dutch Schultz Catskill Treasure

    Quote Originally Posted by GaBnn3
    You're quite welcome Zumbro. I was getting worried that nobody was reading this.
    I use to be the rudest one here when i felt like it. But the moderators took me in back of the wood shed with a switch and i straightened right up. Best to listen to them.

  9. #39
    JT
    JT is offline

    Mar 2005
    Goose Creek, South Carolina
    175
    22 times

    Re: Dutch Schultz Catskill Treasure

    Some vicious clowns have pretended to read trees, and concocted an elaborate conspiracy theory, using my very own pic.
    I assume you're including me in this description, and if so, it's an insult to clowns everywhere.

    Personally, I don't give a rip whether you found the supposed treasure or not. I'm not looking for it, nor will I ever be looking for it, so there is no basis for "an elaborate conspiracy theory".

    When it comes to looking for treasure, or anything valuable, very few people actually do the research, and find what they are looking for. There are far more people out there trying to steal it from the people that found it, or are trying to scam money out of gullible suckers in the belief that they will suddenly be rich.

    I don't know if you fall into any of the above categories, but when someone posts a picture of a 20 or 30 year old tree that has alledgedly been inscribed with a date 70 years ago, it sounds off the bull#### alarm in my brain. It's a little different with you, because you don't claim to know where treasure is....you just seem to be using an awfully excessive amount of energy to want people to believe you found an empty hole where "something" may or may not have been. In essence, my gut hunch tells me you're up to something. My gut hunches don't miss very often.

    People are free to have their own opinions. In your opinion, your empty hole used to hold something valuable. To back up youir opinion, you present evidence to support your claim.

    My opinion, your evidence is flawed at best, bogus at worst. Your picture shows a tree too small to be that old, and the fact that the bark is intact and fresh wood is under it shoots down the chance of it being dead for a couple of decades.

    If your evidence is flawed, then don't feel bad, because many people have relied on bad evidence to try and prove something.

    If your evidence is bogus, then the saying "there's a sucker born every minute" applies.

    I've seen too many people present bogus info in an attempt to scam innocent, gullible people out of money. Some con artists use proof of the "possibility" of finding something to establish credibility to reel in starry-eyed investors.

    I hope you're just relying on flawed info.




  10. #40

    Dec 2004
    164
    38 times

    Re: Dutch Schultz Catskill Treasure

    Until such time as someone else finds that concusive proof, they claim I missed, I'm going to rightfully consider myself the resident expert on the Schultz cache. It would be a much more effective technique to explain how you did it in finding your treasure site, rather than just bashing my story. Yet, I know there's reasons for that. Some think an awful lot of themselves in building their elaborate theories based on one pic, without having been there. I've been around enough to know when someone is BS'ing me. You can wrap a BS theory in flowery phrases and explain the rationale for it, using articultate and skillful use of the English language. But, it's still BS. My attitude annoys some. Oh well! The Schultz story is finished, unless the talkers are more than talk. And yeah, you're one of those clowns.

  11. #41
    JT
    JT is offline

    Mar 2005
    Goose Creek, South Carolina
    175
    22 times

    Re: Dutch Schultz Catskill Treasure

    Like I said, I hope you are relying on false info, and are not trying to run an eventual scam on someone based on your "info" and "prowess" in finding something.

    I've never seen someone defend to the death the hypothesis that they found a hole where treasure USED to be. I can see defending your hypothesis if you had actually found something...anything. Even a plaque from Schultz saying "I buried money here".

    You don't have that. You don't have anything. The proof you offer up..... your own picture of the tree..... shoots down your theory. It doesn't prove that Schultz hid anything there, left a beer bottle there, or even peed in the bushes there.

    What it does prove is that either you don't have the commonsense to realize that your "evidence" cannot be true, or it proves that you're lying, and you carved the date on the tree, because I've already established that the size of the tree coupled with tight bark and fresh wood under it means it cannot be 75 or 80 years old.

    Everyone makes wrong conclusions, and that's ok. It's part of the hunt. If you want to stubbornly insist that you found the correct empty hole, and you want to be considered the "resident expert" on the Schultz cache, as you put it, then go right ahead. The majority of people that look at your "evidence" will realize that it doesn't pass the smell test.

    If you are trying to work an angle to scam money from some unsuspecting sap, I hope he/she reads this, and walks away before it's too late. You may be perfectly honest, and you may truly believe that you are correct, but something about your posts gives me the opposite impression. I hope I'm wrong.

  12. #42
    ZumbroKid

    Re: Dutch Schultz Catskill Treasure

    Quote Originally Posted by GaBnn3
    Until such time as someone else finds that concusive proof, they claim I missed, I'm going to rightfully consider myself the resident expert on the Schultz cache. It would be a much more effective technique to explain how you did it in finding your treasure site, rather than just bashing my story. Yet, I know there's reasons for that. Some think an awful lot of themselves in building their elaborate theories based on one pic, without havong been there. I've been around enough to know when someone is BS'ing me. You can wrap a BS theory in flowery phrases and explain the rationale for it, using articultate and skillful use of the English language. But, it's still BS. My attitude annoys some. Oh well! The Schultz story is finished, unless the talkers are more than talk. And yeah, you're one of those clowns.
    So far you are one of the few to present any form of evidence. If is up to others at this point to spend time, effort and money to present any form of evidence to disprove your claim. Thanks for the story.

  13. #43
    ZumbroKid

    Re: Dutch Schultz Catskill Treasure

    GaBnn3, you do not need to name them. If you post a similar explaination such as the last one without names. They answer back all on their own.

  14. #44

    Dec 2004
    164
    38 times

    Re: Dutch Schultz Catskill Treasure

    F2D, you are so right. Shame on me. My boys were with me, and take great pride on being part of the discovery. These guys came along trying to spoil it for us.

  15. #45

    Jan 2006
    2

    Re: Dutch Schultz Catskill Treasure

    I am more interested in the origins of the Dutch Schultz treasure legend than the treasure itself, especially the association with Phoenicia New York. Where did it come from? A member of the Dutch Schultz mob mentioned his 3 foot by 2 foot by foot and a half steel treasure box in a magazine article in the late 1930s and speculated he might have buried it someplace. But there was no mention in that article of Phoenicia or the Catskills or anyplace else for that matter. The earliest reference I can find to Schultz?s supposed car ride to bury the treasure around Phoenicia with his bodyguard was in the 1968 book by Emil Schumacher entitled, ?Lost Treasures and How to Find Them.? But Schumacker does not list his sources and is deceased and there are some serious factual problems with his account. Does anyone know of written sources, newspaper or magazine articles, or other authoritative information concerning the treasure that pre-dates 1968? So far I have not been able to fine any. Most other accounts of the treasure post date the Schumacker version and seem to be based on it.

 

 
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