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Thread: Victorio Peak Documents, Symbols and Artifacts

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  1. #21
    Charter Member

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
    5,263
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    Re: Victorio Peak Documents, Symbols and Artifacts

    Quote Originally Posted by gollum
    Alex,

    Here is something I don't know if you have ever seen or not, but some time ago, I was sent this snippet of a newspaper article.

    It talks about how Milton Doc Noss was a dinner guest of a certain Captain Emil Holmdahl. In case that name is not familiar to you, Captain Emil Holmdahl was an important officer that worked for Pancho Villa in the Mexican Revolution.

    It was a well known fact that Pancho Villa looted as much of the wealth of the country as he could. Could this be a connection between Pancho Villa's Loot and Victorio Peak? Since many of the aristocracy of Old Mexico were rooted in Europe, that would explain the Euromail as well. Maybe Maximillian's Crown Jewels were recovered by Villa and hidden in VP until after the Revolucion as an insurance policy for himself.

    Best-Mike
    Mike,

    I believe you are close to being on the right track here. Here are a few facts about Holmdahl:

    In 1952 Secret Service Agents questioned him about a rumored $20,000,000 in gold ingots that someone had smuggled across the border. Holmdahl denied any knowledge of it, and the investigation was dropped. Was it some of Villa's loot?

    Emil was known to have a connection with a banker in Morenci, AZ........Home of the DeGrazia family. One of Ted's companions in the Superstitions was a man named Jose Compoy, a Yaqui native to the Sierra Madre. Holmdahl spoke Yaqui....."like a native". Another man who also accompanied DeGrazia into the Superstitions was Marko Romero of Chihuahua, who claimed he had ridden with Pancho Villa.

    Rumors of gold ingots in Mexico, and Emil Holmdahl, are prolific. LaFrance's cave of gold bars comes readily to mind here.

    It would make a very good adventure yarn.

    Take care,

    Joe




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  3. #22
    Charter Member
    bo
    Jan 2006
    SoCal
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    Re: Victorio Peak Documents, Symbols and Artifacts

    Quote Originally Posted by cactusjumper
    Quote Originally Posted by gollum
    Alex,

    Here is something I don't know if you have ever seen or not, but some time ago, I was sent this snippet of a newspaper article.

    It talks about how Milton Doc Noss was a dinner guest of a certain Captain Emil Holmdahl. In case that name is not familiar to you, Captain Emil Holmdahl was an important officer that worked for Pancho Villa in the Mexican Revolution.

    It was a well known fact that Pancho Villa looted as much of the wealth of the country as he could. Could this be a connection between Pancho Villa's Loot and Victorio Peak? Since many of the aristocracy of Old Mexico were rooted in Europe, that would explain the Euromail as well. Maybe Maximillian's Crown Jewels were recovered by Villa and hidden in VP until after the Revolucion as an insurance policy for himself.

    Best-Mike
    Mike,

    I believe you are close to being on the right track here. Here are a few facts about Holmdahl:

    In 1952 Secret Service Agents questioned him about a rumored $20,000,000 in gold ingots that someone had smuggled across the border. Holmdahl denied any knowledge of it, and the investigation was dropped. Was it some of Villa's loot?

    Emil was known to have a connection with a banker in Morenci, AZ........Home of the DeGrazia family. One of Ted's companions in the Superstitions was a man named Jose Compoy, a Yaqui native to the Sierra Madre. Holmdahl spoke Yaqui....."like a native". Another man who also accompanied DeGrazia into the Superstitions was Marko Romero of Chihuahua, who claimed he had ridden with Pancho Villa.

    Rumors of gold ingots in Mexico, and Emil Holmdahl, are prolific. LaFrance's cave of gold bars comes readily to mind here.

    It would make a very good adventure yarn.

    Take care,

    Joe




    Hey Joe,

    Are you talking about this interview (see below)? It was during the course of the Federal Grand Jury Investigation into the "Four Corners" "17 Tons" that on 22 July 1952 Agents of the Secret Service interviewed Emil Holmdahl. His name was omitted from the FOIA Page, but reading it will tell anybody that knows anything at all about Holmdahl can easily figure out who they are referring to.

    I have approximately 800 pages of FOIA Releases, News Clippings, TV Show Research Files (Unsolved Mysteries), Photographs, Personal Notes, interviews, and letters, Court Documents, and much more that strictly deal with the New Mexico 17 Tons Story near Farmington, NM.

    You might also take careful note of what Holmdahl stated to the Agents in his interview regarding the validity of Villa's Treasures:

    "HOLMDAHL related that over the years he had heard various stories of persons trying to locate buried treasure of gold and jewels allegedly hidden by Pancho Villa in the Southwestern part of the United States or in Northern Mexico. HOLMDAHL believes, from his experience in the Mexican Army and having served on Pancho Villa's Army Staff, THAT A TREASURE OF GREAT VALUE WAS BURIED EITHER IN THE UNITED STATES OR MEXICO."

    Now, Holmdahl's description of Viila's Treasure does not exactly fit the description of the 17 Tons Treasure (17 tons of gold bars), but it does fit in quite nicely with the description Doc Noss gave of what was in those different caves at VP (gold and jewels)!

    Best-Mike
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Check out 1ORO1.COM

  4. #23
    Charter Member
    bo
    Jan 2006
    SoCal
    Modded SD2000 / XTerra70 / Fisher Gemini /
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    273 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Victorio Peak Documents, Symbols and Artifacts

    Alex,

    Do you still have any contact with Norman Scott of Expeditions Unlimited?

    There are a few questions he may have some important answers to.

    Best-Mike
    Check out 1ORO1.COM

  5. #24
    us
    Mar 2010
    Republic of Texas
    281
    78 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Victorio Peak Documents, Symbols and Artifacts

    Hmmm - the plot thickens ... now we have deGrazia and Villa/Holmdahl (I've gotta look up on that Holmdahl - that's a Norwegian name if I ever saw one!)
    It would seem that finally - there are a lot of things that suddenly seem to fall together ...
    Gents, I thank you for bringing all this up on the table. I'm not saying that it's all crystal clear, but I do believe the sandwich falling off the table will fall with the buttered side up!!

    Per

  6. #25
    us
    Mar 2010
    Republic of Texas
    281
    78 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Victorio Peak Documents, Symbols and Artifacts

    ok - here's the first google attempt at Emil Holmdahl:
    Born in Ft.Dodge, Iowa in 1883. Enlisted in the 61st Iowa Infantry and served in the Philippine Islands. After discharge, joined Lee Christmas in Honduras. Went to Mexico in 1909 and served in the Rurales under Emilio Kosterlitzky. Holmdahl changed allegiance to Madero after the fall of Juárez. Later, he joined Villa and then Obregon. Returned to the U.S. and worked as a taxi driver. In 1916, he was a guide with Pershing's Punitive expedition. Later served with the U.S. 16th Infantry in WWI. In 1926, while on a prospecting trip to Mexico, he was arrested for desecrating Villa's tomb. Friends arranged his release, and he returned to the U.S.

  7. #26
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    10,151
    782 times

    Re: Victorio Peak Documents, Symbols and Artifacts

    My friend you will be fascinated by Holmdahl, the last of the breed of true Mercinaries. Once you start on his story, you will not put the story down. Incidentally in France he was a Captain and decorated for stopping a German break through.

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  8. #27
    us
    Mar 2010
    Republic of Texas
    281
    78 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Victorio Peak Documents, Symbols and Artifacts

    @Real de Tayopa,
    How true that is - and if you haven't read it all allready (which you probably have!) - check this one out:
    http://www.american-buddha.com/cia.s...fortunetoc.htm

    wow!!

  9. #28
    us
    Sep 2010
    Area 51 S4 Groomlk Dreamld
    Whites-Bear- Anything that goes BEEP!
    14
    Collecting anything unusual,Vintage,Ancient,Rare,Unique,Advanced,Modern,Archaeological Artifacts or Items of Earth that should not exist in our time period.

    Re: Victorio Peak Documents, Symbols and Artifacts

    Posted by: Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp
    (Once you start on his story, you will not put the story down. )

    right, right!



    Looks like will have to start a "Villa/Holmdahl" Thread.

    Very interesting,

    Thanks.

    Brian.

  10. #29
    pw
    Apr 2003
    New Mexico
    BS
    2,476
    590 times

    Re: Victorio Peak Documents, Symbols and Artifacts

    Quote Originally Posted by Loke
    @Real de Tayopa,
    How true that is - and if you haven't read it all allready (which you probably have!) - check this one out:
    http://www.american-buddha.com/cia.s...fortunetoc.htm

    wow!!
    It's a good read. Shows what the life of a mercenary was 100 years ago. Your pals might very well be your enemies next month. Holmdahl was in the right place at the right time to be involved in all kinds of chicanery. There's persistent rumors in SW New Mexico about Villa's knowledge/involvement with bullion caches north of the border. The Columbus raid may have been payback for a betrayal having to do with a cache. But then I've also heard that the raid was in retribution against a Columbus merchant who sold the Villalistas bum ammo. It's an interesting time period that hasn't been all that well documented.
    "The gods were smiling when you were born. Now they're laughing."​ Chinese fortune cookie

  11. #30
    Charter Member

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
    5,263
    492 times

    Re: Victorio Peak Documents, Symbols and Artifacts

    Springfield,

    Believe this is pretty close to what the books I have on Villa say about the Columbus raid:

    http://web.nmsu.edu/~publhist/colhist.htm

    I will double check when I get home this afternoon.

    Take care,

    Joe

  12. #31
    Charter Member

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
    5,263
    492 times

    Re: Victorio Peak Documents, Symbols and Artifacts

    When trying to find ties between Emil Holmdahl and Mexican treasure, it's a good idea to keep the man's history in mind.

    In 1910, Emil was given the job of guarding gold bullion and coins for the Mexican railroad. It was a prime target for "bandits". After switching sides, as he was wont to do, one of the adventures he commanded, was a raid on the on the Buena Noche mine, ostensibly for dynamite to make bombs for the war.......What else might he have lifted?

    Holmdahl spent many years in Mexico looking for buried gold and prospecting for minerals. I believe he may have been involved in some oil exploration as well. In addition to that, he participated in many schemes and projects in Mexico and the US.

    Money and gold were a constant part of his life.

    Joe Ribaudo

  13. #32
    pw
    Apr 2003
    New Mexico
    BS
    2,476
    590 times

    Re: Victorio Peak Documents, Symbols and Artifacts

    Quote Originally Posted by cactusjumper
    When trying to find ties between Emil Holmdahl and Mexican treasure, it's a good idea to keep the man's history in mind.

    In 1910, Emil was given the job of guarding gold bullion and coins for the Mexican railroad. It was a prime target for "bandits". After switching sides, as he was wont to do, one of the adventures he commanded, was a raid on the on the Buena Noche mine, ostensibly for dynamite to make bombs for the war.......What else might he have lifted?

    Holmdahl spent many years in Mexico looking for buried gold and prospecting for minerals. I believe he may have been involved in some oil exploration as well. In addition to that, he participated in many schemes and projects in Mexico and the US.

    Money and gold were a constant part of his life.

    Joe Ribaudo
    Yes, mercenaries are not starry-eyed political activists. They're paid well and always looking for a better deal.
    "The gods were smiling when you were born. Now they're laughing."​ Chinese fortune cookie

  14. #33
    us
    Oct 2010
    38
    1 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Victorio Peak Documents, Symbols and Artifacts

    Senor, Mike (Gollum)

    I came across a photo of a symbol we had found on the walls of the main fissure in Victorio Peak where Doc Noss descended in 1993. We were always puzzled as to it's meaning. We were pretty confident that is was created by Doc but couldn't figure out what it meant. I was wondering if you, or anyone, every came across something like this.

    thanks


    -alex
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  15. #34
    Charter Member
    bo
    Jan 2006
    SoCal
    Modded SD2000 / XTerra70 / Fisher Gemini /
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    Re: Victorio Peak Documents, Symbols and Artifacts

    Hey Alex,

    Its tough to make out in that lighting with those shadows. If Doc made it, it's not likely to be Spanish in nature. From the picture, it looks like a series of sooted holes.

    Maybe it was Doc's way of keeping count of something. Maybe how many bars he was taking out of the passage?

    The markings look too regular to be a map of any kind. Could you use MS Paint or draw and scan what the exact marking looked like?

    Best-Mike
    Check out 1ORO1.COM

  16. #35
    us
    Oct 2010
    38
    1 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Victorio Peak Documents, Symbols and Artifacts

    Quote Originally Posted by gollum
    Hey Alex,

    Its tough to make out in that lighting with those shadows. If Doc made it, it's not likely to be Spanish in nature. From the picture, it looks like a series of sooted holes.

    Maybe it was Doc's way of keeping count of something. Maybe how many bars he was taking out of the passage?

    The markings look too regular to be a map of any kind. Could you use MS Paint or draw and scan what the exact marking looked like?

    Best-Mike
    There are only a two pictures of this symbol from what I have seen. We could never really see it clear enough. I can tell that it's made with a carbide lamp so it's not much older than Doc's era. Thanks for trying, it was puzzling. I thought I would leave you and all interested in a photo of the "Cross Rock" on the east side of Victorio Peak.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  17. #36
    Charter Member
    bo
    Jan 2006
    SoCal
    Modded SD2000 / XTerra70 / Fisher Gemini /
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    Re: Victorio Peak Documents, Symbols and Artifacts

    That's a beautiful cross Alex.

    Anything behind or under that big rock? Did y'all look into the crevices behind all those rocks wedged in that gully? Might be another shaft nearby. Maybe a ventilation shaft. Maybe Doc hid some of the bars there and carved the cross to signify. Somebody went to some trouble to carve that.

    Best-Mike
    Check out 1ORO1.COM

  18. #37
    us
    Oct 2010
    38
    1 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Victorio Peak Documents, Symbols and Artifacts

    Quote Originally Posted by gollum
    That's a beautiful cross Alex.

    Anything behind or under that big rock? Did y'all look into the crevices behind all those rocks wedged in that gully? Might be another shaft nearby. Maybe a ventilation shaft. Maybe Doc hid some of the bars there and carved the cross to signify. Somebody went to some trouble to carve that.

    Best-Mike
    Yes Mike, we looked in every possible crevice on Victorio Peak. We had access for four years. Although, we were mostly excavating Doc's original route we had other team members exploring the surrounding area. This Cross Rock, as I was told had a metal spike with a metal ring hanging out of it. Wes Cheatham, told me when he was 10 years old in 1955, right before Ova was evicted, that ring was still there. No sign of it now though. We all were under the impression that perhaps it was a place to hang slaves so it could be seen from a great distance. Not sure about that though. Doc, did tell the family that in a room where he had to breakdown the mortar door he witnessed 27 skeletons tied to a post. He observed that many parts of the bones were thrown around, by animals he thought. And, he also noticed that these slaves had their achilles cut leaving a slice still visible on the bone. So torture was happening. The cross on this rock was etched so long ago it nearly looks natural. In fact, some of the base archeologists thought it was natural. I pleaded with them to have faith about the Cross:-)

    cheers,

    -alex

  19. #38
    us
    Sep 2010
    Area 51 S4 Groomlk Dreamld
    Whites-Bear- Anything that goes BEEP!
    14
    Collecting anything unusual,Vintage,Ancient,Rare,Unique,Advanced,Modern,Archaeological Artifacts or Items of Earth that should not exist in our time period.

    Re: Victorio Peak Documents, Symbols and Artifacts

    What happened? is everybody out treasure hunting?
    Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to all!


    Regards,
    Brian.

  20. #39

    Jul 2007
    ENGLAND & CALIFORNIA
    Eyes, ears and common sense
    910

    Re: Victorio Peak Documents, Symbols and Artifacts

    Dont know how I missed this thread.

    The news article that Mike posted, I posted on the forums some time ago I believe it was about 2007. It is the exact same "snippet" I posted taken from the full article.
    Springfield to answer your question the article predates 1949 and the place they were at was El Paso, sorry I can not say anymore than that yet.

    I believe I collected enough circumstantial evidence and some documented evidence to be able to say with some certainty that what Noss claims to have found in Victorio Peak, was actually spoils from working with Holmdahl.

    Since I am unable to share everything I have, it would be worth reading the 17 tons thread where I believe I make it clear that I believe there is a strong possibility that Victorio Peak and the 17 tons are part of the same treasure. They just came to light in a different fashion each.

    My theories can be read here

    http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...30806.100.html




    You can't always get what you want, but if you try, sometimes you just might find, you get what you need- Mick Jagger

  21. #40
    Charter Member
    bo
    Jan 2006
    SoCal
    Modded SD2000 / XTerra70 / Fisher Gemini /
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Victorio Peak Documents, Symbols and Artifacts

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerless67
    Dont know how I missed this thread.

    The news article that Mike posted, I posted on the forums some time ago I believe it was about 2007. It is the exact same "snippet" I posted taken from the full article.
    Springfield to answer your question the article predates 1949 and the place they were at was El Paso, sorry I can not say anymore than that yet.

    I believe I collected enough circumstantial evidence and some documented evidence to be able to say with some certainty that what Noss claims to have found in Victorio Peak, was actually spoils from working with Holmdahl.

    Since I am unable to share everything I have, it would be worth reading the 17 tons thread where I believe I make it clear that I believe there is a strong possibility that Victorio Peak and the 17 tons are part of the same treasure. They just came to light in a different fashion each.

    My theories can be read here

    http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...30806.100.html




    Hey Buddy,

    You sure that was in El Paso? From the way the article referenced Van Nuys, I thought it might have been in SoCal (the way it mentions "Van Nuys" and not "Van Nuys, Ca"). I could understand it if VN was mentioned previously in the article.

    Mike
    Check out 1ORO1.COM

 

 
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