Gold! The Mystery of the $30 Billion Treasure

[Dirt1955]

SDCFIA and Gollum. I have a lot of respect for both of you guys. I have learned a lot about research and history of the west from you both
As to Willie D, I have been to the address where he wrote the book next to the 110 freeway and his home in San Diego. There is no evidence he married a rich woman. I have verified Gollum’s research on Willie even down to the burial plot in one of the most expensive
Cemeteries in Los Angeles county. There is no reasonable explanation for his accumulated wealth at his death as he was unemployed and not skilled. I’ll keep researching since I am in the LA market. If I find anything I’ll post it here.

Dirt

 

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[gollum]

Same old narrative. Been over it numerous times - the old threads are bursting at the seams with it. Rinse and repeat. None of us was there, none of us knows for sure. There is no indisputable evidence, only talk and “testimony”, like WMD’s. The burden is on the claimant, and it’s a dead duck, except for the true believers. Maybe the next round of books will reveal some shocking truth.

Tony Jolley was there. He knew for sure, and he said so very specifically in the longer video. "Too many people got gold bars from Doc for them to be copper or brass." Jolley knew the people. He lived there, and personally witnessed what he said. Some poor rodeo cowboy suddenly flush with cash to buy a ranch. Some poor old common laborer suddenly flush with enough cash to buy several adjoining lots and building a custom home on the property. Some non-professional backwoods guy that never held a professional job in his life dies and has an estate worth about $5 million total. That same guy says exactly where he got the money from...........gold bars in a cave in the Caballos.........and you stick to copper bars. Less than likely.

And even if you just go by the predominance of the evidence, there is more evidence FOR there being gold under VP than not. Fiege&Berlette, Swanner, Samaniego, Ova Noss, Assays, US Mint Receipt, Charlie Ryan, and many others.

Mike

PS

Don Jose may be more correct than you know. While copper ore may not predominate in the area around VP, if you look at the mines near where Jose is talking about "Copper Canyon" is close by.

 

[Real of Tayopa]

Gollum, I was referring to the fact that those Dore' bars were mine run bars, they were not refined gold bars. As such every batch had a different amount of Gold. And as the Gold was found in Cu rich deposits, the bars contained essentially copper. Still would like to have some., how about You ? Incidentally, Victoria Peak and the Caballo moutain were holding stations for the Dore' bars destined for Rome, The Jesuits Rember NP's lil map ? Only in Spain and the Capital, Mexico City, were they refined into relative pure gold.

Good to see you actiive again Gollum, you are about as an authorive source as I know.of.

 

[gollum]

Gollum, I was referring to the fact that those Dore' bars were mine run bars, they were not refined gold bars. As such every batch had a different amount of Gold. And as the Gold was found in Cu rich deposits, the bars contained essentially copper. Still would like to have some., how about You ? Incidentally, Victoria Peak and the Caballo moutain were holding stations for the Dore' bars destined for Rome, The Jesuits Rember NP's lil map ? Only in Spain and the Capital, Mexico City, were they refined into relative pure gold.

Good to see you actiive again Gollum, you are about as an authorive source as I know.of.

Thanks Don Jose,

Good to hear from you as well. Copper Deposits typically contain about two percent gold. That is typically how copper mines work. In a large copper mine, the gold content pays for mining and recovery, and the copper is pure profit (or vice versa).

The bars that Doc described as having come from under VP were dore (mine run) bars. Doc also had a source of refined bars. Doc and Willie's both had gold bar caves close to each other in the Caballos. That is where Docs refined bars came from.

SDCFIA,

This one is for you! Capt. Swanner stated that he personally witnessed the government flatbed about 93 million troy ounces of gold from VP. Doc said there were about 1700 bars in the stack under VP. 1700 bars at roughly 50 pounds per bar, puts that at around 1 million ounces of gold. Quite a difference from 93 million. Not a rounding error! HAHAHA I believe it is entirely possible some WWII European and Pacific Bullion may have been mixed in with VP Treasure. Could account for the difference in size.

Mike

 

[PotBelly Jim]

This may seem like a stupid question, but how did the Spanish refine gold from other metals way out in Apacheria? I'm not being sarcastic, I really don't have any idea how that would be done. I just assumed they would arrastra up all the ore, amalgamate it, boil it off, then pour it into a crude mold, perhaps chiseled out of bedrock or made in the sand. I must have that process wrong (not surprising as I know nothing about it). Should one of you mining guys take the time to explain the process, I would appreciate it. Thanks, Jim

 

[gollum]

This may seem like a stupid question, but how did the Spanish refine gold from other metals way out in Apacheria? I'm not being sarcastic, I really don't have any idea how that would be done. I just assumed they would arrastra up all the ore, amalgamate it, boil it off, then pour it into a crude mold, perhaps chiseled out of bedrock or made in the sand. I must have that process wrong (not surprising as I know nothing about it). Should one of you mining guys take the time to explain the process, I would appreciate it. Thanks, Jim

This wasn't just Apacheria. This was the far Northern Camino Real (Royal Road). It was basically the most direct way to get from Mexico City to Santa Fe. While it was remote, it was the most traveled route in Northern Nueva Vizcaya. Lots of folks traveled that route (thats why there are so many treasure stories between El Paso and Santa Fe).

That said, I don't believe those bars were from that area. It is difficult to attribute them to any group in particular as none of them that I know of had any markings. The best method of attribution would be to assay (or XRF) a dore bar, then try and match that mineral content to known mine mineral contents. When I get home, I will find the two maps that may go together that show a trail from several mines in Mexico up to (and beyond) the area of the Caballos and San Andres. I believe these caves were simply holding/counting places. I believe the Jesuit Order secretly owned many mines that were operated by people not directly associated with the Order. If these bars were brought to the usual places Vera Cruz, Mexico City, Guadalajara, Zacatecas, Taxco, etc, the wealth would have been subject to Royal Taxation. It may have also led to the discovery that Jesuits owned mines which had been illegal (in all Spanish Lands) since the 13th Century.

The Order would have had to transport far to the North. They would then need a safe place to temporarily store the mine run bars until they could count out how much their ships could carry and whether they would go to the Jesuit Mission in Northern Baja Mexico to be put on Manilla Galleons, or East to Jesuit Owned Ships in the Port of Matamoros for shipment to Rome. On Willie Douthitt's Map, it shows a large "Almacen" in the area of the Gila Headwaters. An Almacen is a counting/storage room.

Mike



EDIT:

Port of Matamoros should read "Galveston Bay via Matamoros"

 

[mann]

Pretty interesting thanks for the information. String was getting a little dry.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

This wasn't just Apacheria. This was the far Northern Camino Real (Royal Road). It was basically the most direct way to get from Mexico City to Santa Fe. While it was remote, it was the most traveled route in Northern Nueva Vizcaya. Lots of folks traveled that route (thats why there are so many treasure stories between El Paso and Santa Fe).

That said, I don't believe those bars were from that area. It is difficult to attribute them to any group in particular as none of them that I know of had any markings. The best method of attribution would be to assay (or XRF) a dore bar, then try and match that mineral content to known mine mineral contents. When I get home, I will find the two maps that may go together that show a trail from several mines in Mexico up to (and beyond) the area of the Caballos and San Andres. I believe these caves were simply holding/counting places. I believe the Jesuit Order secretly owned many mines that were operated by people not directly associated with the Order. If these bars were brought to the usual places Vera Cruz, Mexico City, Guadalajara, Zacatecas, Taxco, etc, the wealth would have been subject to Royal Taxation. It may have also led to the discovery that Jesuits owned mines which had been illegal (in all Spanish Lands) since the 13th Century.

The Order would have had to transport far to the North. They would then need a safe place to temporarily store the mine run bars until they could count out how much their ships could carry and whether they would go to the Jesuit Mission in Northern Baja Mexico to be put on Manilla Galleons, or East to Jesuit Owned Ships in the Port of Matamoros for shipment to Rome. On Willie Douthitt's Map, it shows a large "Almacen" in the area of the Gila Headwaters. An Almacen is a counting/storage room.

Mike

Thanks, Mike. I hadn't even thought of Santa Fe, or their purpose in taking that stuff up to VP...I always just assumed they mined it nearby. Do you think they had the same sort of thing in the Philippines, i.e. a somewhat remote place to hide the stuff from Crown officials? Maybe one of the islands with a mission on it or something?

 

[gollum]

Thanks, Mike. I hadn't even thought of Santa Fe, or their purpose in taking that stuff up to VP...I always just assumed they mined it nearby. Do you think they had the same sort of thing in the Philippines, i.e. a somewhat remote place to hide the stuff from Crown officials? Maybe one of the islands with a mission on it or something?

In the Far East, can you think of ANY country with more Catholics that the Philippines? Manilla was/is basically the Rome of the Orient. VERY MANY Churches, Missions, etc to hide wealth.

First, it was illegal for ANY Clergy of ANY Order to have anything to do with the mining arts. The two reasons were that no Jesuit was allowed to operate a business "for profit". Jesuits had to take INDIVIDUAL vows of poverty. Those only applied to the individuals and not the Order as a whole. Second, the King of Spain paid the Jesuit Order 2000 pesos per year for every Jesuit Missionary Priest to take care of their material needs. That way, the Priests could do their REAL JOBS and cater to the Spiritual Needs of their congregants without having to worry about food, clothing, room, and board.

Let me see if I can find those maps, and I'll explain more.

Mike

 

[Real of Tayopa]

; POTBeLLy GOLLUM
first the majority of those bars came from the Tayopa complex of mines.. Second, the caballo & Victorio peak were but a short distance off from El Paso and the river del norte, thecheapest and with holding stations, ( Caballo, Victorio peak depositos. There they could wait for the Jesuit ships. at Mattamoris.

 

[Tanneyhill]

i say that it never happened.there is not one item of verifiable proof in existence. not a one. just stories and pictures of pawn shop purchases. bunch of lies. great story to sell books in modern times. sorry guys, but it is a bogus story. if you buy books and read about it , read them for enjoyment not as a fact of history. there is just no proof.

🤣😂

 

[Tanneyhill]

Jeff,

Three stories come together here:
1. Victorio Peak
2. Ft. Huachuca
3. Willie Douthitt's gold bar cave

Willie murdered a young boy named Jack Reynolds to get an old treasure map he had. Using the map, Willie found a cave in the Caballo Mountains that contained about 2000 forty pound gold bars. After selling half of one (long story short), Willie's find made it into the newspapers (if you have newspapers.com you can find it 1929). Willie was kidnapped twice and tortured by people trying to find the location of his cave. The second time, his buddy Doc Noss shot and killed the guy guarding him, and helped him get away. In gratitude, Willie showed Doc the map which showed seven treasure caves. Because of that Doc found the treasure caverns under Victorio Peak (and likely one other cave). Shortly thereafter, Willie took his dead cousin's name (Lawrence Foreman) and moved to San Diego, where he lived until his death in 1998.

In 1941 a Private Robert Jones found a treasure cave on Forth Huachuca. https://www.azcentral.com/story/travel/arizona/2017/08/01/jones-gold-fort-huachuca-legend/428889001/

Over Thanksgiving Weekend in (IIRC) 1976, the military emptied out both Victorio Peak and Ft. Huachuca treasure caves. The Operations Officer (Capt. William Orby Swanner) at White Sands Missile Range (where Victorio Peak is), witnessed the US Government flatbed approximately 93 million ounces of gold from VP. He later signed a notarized affidavit to that affect.

According to Willie, there are still (to this day) about 1200-1400 bars in his cave. He would never give the exact location to anybody because there are probably 6-7 dead bodies/skeletons there that he and a friend murdered to keep the cave a secret. No statute of limitations on murder!

Mike

PS,

When the gold first left Arizona, it was flown by military cargo plane to Lyndon Johnson's Ranch in Texas. Only President to ever have a airstrip built on their property big enough to land a military cargo plane. HAHAHA

Gollum, I loved reading the link you shared and your follow-up comments. Crazy story. I wonder, in Timberwolf's database he had treasure listed at Fort Huachuca worth 4,200,000. Is this speculation that there are still ingots of gold still out there or did the government steal it all?

This is the original story on the Fort Huachuca gold bar treasure find:

https://www.treasurenet.com/threads/fort-huachuca-gold.623199/#post-6709310

 

[Randy Bradford]

i have researched my butt off in 40yrs and my opinion is, no proof equals no truth.

I'm reminded of an old saying, "The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence."