Exploring My Great Grandmothers House: Pocket Watches and Swords

[OhioAdventurer]

Exploring My Great Grandmother's House: Pocket Watches and Swords

Hello all! I'm very new to the forum, so I figured I should start with telling you about myself. My name is Nathan Bellew and I live in Ohio. I live about 100 yards from my Great Grandmother, who will turn 100 years old this June. Her father passed his belongings onto her, and she often passes them to me; subsequently, I have acquired these 3 pieces for which I am seeking an estimated value.

2 pocket watches and what seems to be a masonic sword. The sword that I am posting pictures of is accompanied by a sheath, which is yet to be discovered in her home; however, the sheath IS there. She has informed me numerous times that she kept all parts of the sword.

Side Note: I will be posting more "What's It Worth?" threads concerning other antiques bestowed to me by my Grandmother.

First things first - the pocket watches.

Pocket Watch #1:

Elgin Pocket Watch, Clockwork Serial Number: 2145379

Outside:

Clockworks:

Case Serial Number:

Pocket Watch #2:

Elgin Pocket Watch, Clockwork Serial Number: 25239854

Outside:

Clockworks:

Case Serial Number:

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Second: The Masonic Sword

Blade Side 1:

Full Sword:

Handle:

Blade:

Blade Side 2:

Full Sword:

Handle:

Blade:

Any value's would be awesome! Thanks!

 

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[Army of 1]

No idea on values , don't think the watches are anything special , the sword could be of value depending on age and heritage . The blade could use some oil to stop further rusting , Do not try to remove rust you may devalue the sword if you remove any patina ..cheers and good luck , Mick

 

[cw0909]

welcome to Tnet, nice watches,sword, maybe this info will help you
the sword, im thinking it is, maybe same time as watches, maybe the
will help in your research of value


Pocket Watch #1:
Elgin Pocket Watch, Clockwork Serial Number: 2145379
year info
first yr last yr
1886 1894
[ELGIN] Online Elgin Database



Pocket Watch #2:
Elgin Pocket Watch, Clockwork Serial Number: 25239854
first yr last yr
1904 1932
[ELGIN] Online Elgin Database



your sword, i found a post at a weapons site, and simialr sword at
the Phoenixmasonry museum


posts 1 & 2 post 1 has imgs
Masonic Sword
Masonic Sword

museum img,info
YR Sword

 

[Hitndahed]

Nice stuff,,, I wouldn't sell any of it.

The engineering of those watches is incredible, and beautiful to boot.
The past days of individually produced timepieces shows the absolute, breathtaking beauty that was made back then.
Not like now,,, in the mass produced, stamped out parts world.

I was given a sword nearly identical to yours.

One side should have the owners name engraved on it.
The relative who willed it to me was a 33 degree Mason. And was pretty deep into the organisation.
I have looked into joining the Masons but decided against it,,

Nice stuff and thanks for sharing

Hit

 

[Sheldon J]

Actually I lean towards a Shriner sword....
Once you have reached the 33rd Masonic degree (there is an honorary 34th degree) you could join them.
As a kid I use to watch them practice their drills on a local Jr HS football field, all dressed in uniforms with their swords and had some relation that belonged and would stop by after to visit in his full parade dress...

 

[OhioAdventurer]

welcome to Tnet, nice watches,sword, maybe this info will help you
the sword, im thinking it is, maybe same time as watches, maybe the
will help in your research of value


Pocket Watch #1:
Elgin Pocket Watch, Clockwork Serial Number: 2145379
year info
first yr last yr
1886 1894
[ELGIN] Online Elgin Database



Pocket Watch #2:
Elgin Pocket Watch, Clockwork Serial Number: 25239854
first yr last yr
1904 1932
[ELGIN] Online Elgin Database



your sword, i found a post at a weapons site, and simialr sword at
the Phoenixmasonry museum


posts 1 & 2 post 1 has imgs
Masonic Sword
Masonic Sword

museum img,info
YR Sword

Great information! A huge help. Thank you!

 

[OhioAdventurer]

Nice stuff,,, I wouldn't sell any of it.

The engineering of those watches is incredible, and beautiful to boot.
The past days of individually produced timepieces shows the absolute, breathtaking beauty that was made back then.
Not like now,,, in the mass produced, stamped out parts world.

I was given a sword nearly identical to yours.

One side should have the owners name engraved on it.
The relative who willed it to me was a 33 degree Mason. And was pretty deep into the organisation.
I have looked into joining the Masons but decided against it,,

Nice stuff and thanks for sharing

Hit

I do not plan on selling them, for now. But who knows? I have been looking for a nice metal detector, and I might need the cash. 33rd degree!? Very cool! Almost all of the men in my family are masons. The first side has the owners name engraved. I'll have to research him as well. Anytime! I'll be posting more of her gifts to me.

 

[allen_idaho]

WATCH #1:

Production Year : 1887
Size : 18s
Jewels : 15-17 jewels
Grade : 44
Model : 5
Class : 9
Run Quantity : 5000
Production Dates : 1886 to 1894
Total Grade Production : 69000
Movement Configuration : Open Face
Movement Setting : Pendant Wind and Set
Movement Finish : Nickel Damaskeening
Plate : Full Plate
Barrel : Going Barrel
Adjusted : No

WATCH #2:

Production Year : 1923
Size : 12s
Jewels : 17 jewels
Grade : 345
Model : 3
Class : 114
Run Quantity : 6000
Production Dates : 1904 to 1932
Total Grade Production : 730900
Movement Configuration : Open Face
Movement Setting : Pendant Wind and Set
Movement Finish : Nickel Damaskeening
Plate : 3/4 Plate
Barrel : Going Barrel
Adjusted : No

 

[OhioAdventurer]

WATCH #1:

Production Year : 1887
Size : 18s
Jewels : 15-17 jewels
Grade : 44
Model : 5
Class : 9
Run Quantity : 5000
Production Dates : 1886 to 1894
Total Grade Production : 69000
Movement Configuration : Open Face
Movement Setting : Pendant Wind and Set
Movement Finish : Nickel Damaskeening
Plate : Full Plate
Barrel : Going Barrel
Adjusted : No

WATCH #2:

Production Year : 1923
Size : 12s
Jewels : 17 jewels
Grade : 345
Model : 3
Class : 114
Run Quantity : 6000
Production Dates : 1904 to 1932
Total Grade Production : 730900
Movement Configuration : Open Face
Movement Setting : Pendant Wind and Set
Movement Finish : Nickel Damaskeening
Plate : 3/4 Plate
Barrel : Going Barrel
Adjusted : No

Very informative and thorough, thank you! Any idea on the values?

 

[david680]

The sword has markings that are associated with the Knights Templar. Particularly the Cross and Crown "In Hoc Signo Pinces".

 

[cw0909]

ohioadventurer, if you go to the ebay and use search terms
for pocket watch #1:,..... elgin pocket watch grade 44
then check back here for more details
watch #1
[ELGIN] Online Elgin Database

i got this one, and it will give you a idea of asking price, not sure
if that value is good enough for insurance coverage maybe check
with buyers in your area too

1895 17J Elgin Natl 18s Grade 44 GM Wheeler Stem Set Pocket Watch Keeps Time | eBay

same for watch #2
[ELGIN] Online Elgin Database

ebay ex
Vintage 12 Size Elgin Pocketwatch Grade 345 | eBay

 

[Mackaydon]

Regarding your Elgin: (sorry if this is a repeat):
[ELGIN] Online Elgin Database
Don.....

 

[Mackaydon]

This looks like your sword without the personalization on the handle.
Masonic Knight's Templar Ceremonial Sword Antiqued
Don....

 

[OhioAdventurer]

This looks like your sword without the personalization on the handle.
Masonic Knight's Templar Ceremonial Sword Antiqued
Don....

I have seen several of these reproduction swords many times while trying to identify mine, I just wish that I could find some value of mine.

 

[OhioAdventurer]

ohioadventurer, if you go to the ebay and use search terms
for pocket watch #1:,..... elgin pocket watch grade 44
then check back here for more details
watch #1
[ELGIN] Online Elgin Database

i got this one, and it will give you a idea of asking price, not sure
if that value is good enough for insurance coverage maybe check
with buyers in your area too

1895 17J Elgin Natl 18s Grade 44 GM Wheeler Stem Set Pocket Watch Keeps Time | eBay

same for watch #2
[ELGIN] Online Elgin Database

ebay ex
Vintage 12 Size Elgin Pocketwatch Grade 345 | eBay

Thank you so much, both of these watches are very close!

 

[Mackaydon]

The greatest value of these items may not be monetary; but the memories they may produce in remembrance of your kinfolks.
Don.....

 

[OhioAdventurer]

The greatest value of these items may not be monetary; but the memories they may produce in remembrance of your kinfolks.
Don.....

It is not that I am seeking monetary values because I plan on selling them, I would only like to know for the sake of knowing. Very wise.. and true. I will be passing many of her antiques down to my children (when I have them).

 

[OhioAdventurer]

Also, to anyone who would be able to help research the owner of the sword...

The name etched onto the blade is "C. W. Hammerle."

 

[Coinhawk]

Also, to anyone who would be able to help research the owner of the sword...

The name etched onto the blade is "C. W. Hammerle."

Buy some mineral oil at a drug store. It costs about 99 cents for a huge container. Dab a soft cotton cloth in the oil and carefully wipe down the blade, removing any excess amount. Always avoid touching the blade of a sword with your bare hands. Don't oil anything but the blade.

As for the name, you might get in contact with your local masonic lodge about it. I think they keep records about their members and could offer you insights.

Good luck. Cool stuff. Love those watches too!

 

[huntsman53]

It is quite possible that the Masonic Sword belonged to someone on your Great Great Grandfather's side of the family, so your Great Grandmother is a good place to start in trying to find out who, which Masonic Lodge and which Masonic Order. Ask other family members on your Great Grandmother's side of the family and/or do the Genealogy on the family to document the Family Tree as well but if no luck, check with the closest Masonic Lodge as they may be able to help. The Provenance of the Sword (who it belonged to, his status in the Masonic Lodge and Order as well as which Lodge and Order) can have a significant effect it's the value. The problem is with determining Provenance without a family member that can remember or records, is that many of the Masonic Lodges and Orders are now defunct, having closed many years ago. I had one fairly similar to your's and although I found out who the owner of it was (a Pharmacist in New York), I could not find what Lodge he belonged to or the Order. I purchased the sword at a combined Consignment/Estate Auction for around $75 (been a few years) and managed to sell it for $250 at a local Gun Show. With excellent Provenance, some Masonic Swords fetch fairly high prices.


Frank