75grams of Thulium

[itzyoboyandrew]

Did some tests, it is thulium... thulium is worth 50$ per gram... BUT its not like gold and can take it to a pawn.. anyone know who or where i can sell it?

 

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[Charlie P. (NY)]

Since it is not naturally occuring in the pure form: first "they" are going to ask you where you came up with that much Thulium - did you rob a research lab or synthesize it yourself from the raw ore of Erbium or the much more hazardous Erbium Oxide?

Then "they" may ask if you have a facility that can heat the ore to 3,000°F or so in a centrifuge to purify it why you wouldn't already have a buyer in mind - as you are obviously running a sophisticated refinery.

Someone like Sigma-Aldrich (St. Louis, MO) may be interested in buying it if you can guaranty the purity.

And I won't even get into how you tested it - unless you have access to a gas spectrometer or chromatograph.

 

[itzyoboyandrew]

Believe it or not i dug it up... i tested its reactivity in water, (thulium reacts in water, this did) its magnetism, (wasnt magnetic) and its density ( was .04 off from the exact density of thulium.. which could of been just a sligth error in my measuring..) so theres no place to really sell it without being a certified buyer? thats what sigma said..

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

I'll go with the "or not". That's like finding a piece of Technetium - on Earth it only occurs in the lab because of how it must be refined from the ore. Unless you were digging near a research or radiation lab. Thulium doesn't just lie around and does not occur naturally.

How did you accurately establish the volume to measure the density?

 

[itzyoboyandrew]

Got a chemist nerd friend, we measured its water displacement with its weight/volume of the water in cup..... and our house is 100 years old, i have no clue what was nearby years ago

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Water displacement? Rather than putting fifteen laughing emoticons in a row I'll ask how did you ascertain that your metal sample (and water sample) is 100% pure so that even got you close (which would be impossible) to accurate enough for isolating one element rather than averaging the densities of the sample and included impurities?

But - I would recommend putting it on ebaY as a piece of Thulium. Someone will buy it I'm sure.

 

[itzyoboyandrew]

heres a pic of it :/
+
ebay wont give me nearly the value

 

[gollum]

Just forget the BS tests. The only way to tell exactly what you have is with XRF (XRay Flourescence), Gas Chromatography, or Mass Spectroscopy. That will tell you every element (and in what quantities) that is in your sample.

Anything other than that is guesswork, and unless you are an accredited geologist, your guess as to what it is is not nearly worth $50 gram. Looks like Galena to me from the pic.

Mike

 

[itzyoboyandrew]

Just forget the BS tests. The only way to tell exactly what you have is with XRF (XRay Flourescence), Gas Chromatography, or Mass Spectroscopy. That will tell you every element (and in what quantities) that is in your sample.

Anything other than that is guesswork, and unless you are an accredited geologist, your guess as to what it is is not nearly worth $50 gram. Looks like Galena to me from the pic.

Mike

mom thought the same thing, we actually have some, but when i dipped my object in water, it makes a weird fizzzzzzz sound. The galena did not.

 

[G.I.B.]

How does it survive rain?

 

[itzyoboyandrew]

the outside was rough, its only like that when i busted it open, the outside may have corroded over..

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Water reactive could be Lithium, Sodium, Potassium, Rubidium, Cesium or Francium (the alkali metals). Or a chunk of boat zinc anode that has been made porous and had some salt build-up.

From your image and the "symptoms" I'm inclined to think it might be hematite with possibly some pyrite involved (that would react to "bubble" in water because it would produce hydrogen. If it gives a red streak test I'd say "solved". I sincerely do not believe it is an element, but a matrix. Get it to a geologist.

 

[Mackaydon]

Charlie P. (NY)
I continue to learn on the fast track with your comments.
Thanks,
Don....

 

[Peyton Manning]

Since it is not naturally occuring in the pure form: first "they" are going to ask you where you came up with that much Thulium - did you rob a research lab or synthesize it yourself from the raw ore of Erbium or the much more hazardous Erbium Oxide?

Then "they" may ask if you have a facility that can heat the ore to 3,000°F or so in a centrifuge to purify it why you wouldn't already have a buyer in mind - as you are obviously running a sophisticated refinery.

Someone like Sigma-Aldrich (St. Louis, MO) may be interested in buying it if you can guaranty the purity.

And I won't even get into how you tested it - unless you have access to a gas spectrometer or chromatograph.

nerd alert!!

 

[itzyoboyandrew]

im taking to a natural resouces department, see if they can help me with it. or know someone who can.

 

[Crispin]

Water reactive could be Lithium, Sodium, Potassium, Rubidium, Cesium or Francium (the alkali metals). Or a chunk of boat zinc anode that has been made porous and had some salt build-up.

From your image and the "symptoms" I'm inclined to think it might be hematite with possibly some pyrite involved (that would react to "bubble" in water because it would produce hydrogen. If it gives a red streak test I'd say "solved". I sincerely do not believe it is an element, but a matrix. Get it to a geologist.

View attachment 1206614

Charlie P.,

He gave rough dimensions of two different pieces with mass. I calculated both densities around 6.9. It was oxidized. What do you think of the possibility of naturally occurring Antimony or a possible man made antimony lead/silver alloy?

Also, I think he should try melting it with a soldering iron. Most alloys melt below 900 degrees.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Your density of 6.9 - what is the unit of measure? Are you using grams per cubic centimeter?

Alloys of antimony, tin and lead will melt under 900°F. Alloys of iron or copper won't.

Zamak 2 has a density of 6.8g/cm3 and is an alloy of aluminum, copper, magnesium, lead, cadmium, iron, and tin. It's used to die cast tools and machine mandrels and things like automotive castings. And there are seven different zamak compositions - and hundreds of similar alloys that all just look like cast metal.

And note that you can't add elemental densities together and average for the "alloy" density as the molecules arrange themselves in different "spaces". i.e. - rust (ferric oxide - Fe2O3) weighs more than iron and oxygen measured separately.

I worked at an iron and bronze foundry (Fairbanks Valve) but I can't look at a picture and tell the composition. Could be solder, white metal (pot metal), zamak or some Babbitt alloy of five or six different metals.

 

[Crispin]

Your density of 6.9 - what is the unit of measure? Are you using grams per cubic centimeter?

Alloys of antimony, tin and lead will melt under 900°F. Alloys of iron or copper won't.

Zamak 2 has a density of 6.8g/cm3 and is an alloy of aluminum, copper, magnesium, lead, cadmium, iron, and tin. It's used to die cast tools and machine mandrels and things like automotive castings. And there are seven different zamak compositions - and hundreds of similar alloys that all just look like cast metal.

And note that you can't add elemental densities together and average for the "alloy" density as the molecules arrange themselves in different "spaces". i.e. - rust (ferric oxide - Fe2O3) weighs more than iron and oxygen measured separately.

I worked at an iron and bronze foundry (Fairbanks Valve) but I can't look at a picture and tell the composition. Could be solder, white metal (pot metal), zamak or some Babbitt alloy of five or six different metals.

Lots of respect for you! I calculated densities he gave on a thread in the What is it section based on g/cm cubed. I am aware that you can't average densities. I calculated density with the belief I was dealing with a pure element or 95% pure. This chart gives good density for alloys. I find it very valuable in my own identification of Fire Nugget Beach:

Solder Alloys: Physical and Mechanical Properties

In my mind, most alloys can be melted. The next test to be done is to buy a 25 dollar soldering iron from Lowe's and Home Depot and see if it melts. That would significantly narrow things down if it is indeed a metal.

What say you?

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Alloys of antimony, tin and lead will melt under 900°F. Alloys of iron or copper won't.

A soldering iron concentrates heat at the tip and is designed to melt small tubes or ribbons of solder. Because a chunk of metal is larger it may dissipate the heat faster than the soldering iron heats it up. So if you're going to try that use an edge or small piece.

And even then you just narrow it down to one of hundreds of possibilities.

This is why most guys call such bits "leaverite". And also why silver and gold are valuable. They are among the few minerals that are found in valuable form right up on Earth's crust.

 

[itzyoboyandrew]

Heres the result of my sodering test (we had one):

i had a wire i found, as a comparison.. (pretty sure its not a valuable metal)
the wire got dented/melted within 1 min or 2..

the silver-iron alloy (bar 1 from my other thread) did nothing, no burn marks, no dents... even on the bare part it was unaffected..

however, did not test the POSSIBLE thulium bar... i sent an email to a college chemist/mineral teacher this evening, will see his reply tomorrow (probably during school hours)