Copper Sheeting with two Brass Nails found on beach opposite 1715 Plate Fleet Wreck

[ruhrt2]

Metal detecting on the beach around Ft Pierce, FL opposite one of the 1715 Plate Fleet wrecks I came across this piece of copper with two (what appears to be) hand forged square brass nails. Being brass, I assume this dates the item as being after 1715 around the time of Muntz metal.

I was a Coast Guard Marine Inspector for 14 years and inspected many many wood hulled boats plus some square riggers and have never seen nails such as these.

Does anyone have a clue as to a better age for this item?

I am assuming it is part of a ship bottom copper sheeting of late 1800's.

 

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[Jolly Mon]

It is my understanding that hand forged, copper alloy nails are practically undateable. They could be modern or they could be hundreds of years old. Copper sheathing is more age diagnostic. https://www.academia.edu/358814/The_Introduction_and_Use_of_Copper_Sheathing_-_A_History. Also check out, Ship Fastenings, From Sewn Boat to Steamship by Mike McCarthy.

IMHO this piece could be from one of the 1715's...or possibly even an earlier vessel. Copper sheathing has been recovered from the Concepcion site which dates from 1641.

 

[ruhrt2]

Thanks...that is encouraging.

 

[S.S.Tupperware]

Cool find either way...

 

[GatorBoy]

I would venture a guess that you were to the south end of the wreck site there.
There is an 1800's wreck there.
I found several artifacts that led me to question that myself and wound up speaking to Eric Schmidt about it.

 

[Peyton Manning]

man that sure looks old to me ( trust me I know old)

 

[hobbit]

That is a neat looking find.

Short of a mark or stamp of some kind, I don't think it is precisely dateable. Even if you knew the copper content of the sheathing, I don't think it would prove anything for sure.

It is cool find nonetheless.

 

[Salvor6]

Copper sheathing was not used until the late 18th century. First by the British Royal Navy in 1767. All Spanish ships of the 18th century used lead sheathing.

 

[Jolly Mon]

Copper sheathed ships have been definitively dated to the early 17th century according to the marine archies.

How common the practice was is open to debate. It was apparently quite common on Dutch ships by the 1670's.

Here is just one example: Ships of the Renaissance - Vikingeskibsmuseet Roskilde


I will say though, that after looking at your piece on something other than a phone, the plating does seem to have a machine made look to it...

Copper sheathing has also used on wharf pilings and even roofs...

 

[GatorBoy]

A good look at the connectors themselves would help alot

 

[mad4wrecks]

Gator Boy is correct. At the south end of Douglas Beach is an early 19th century wreck I call the "Norm Scott" wreck, after the discoverer of it in the early 60's. I think Norm referred to it as the Brick wreck. Mo Molinar, myself and Galleon Hunter accidentally relocated it about 12 years ago, and Rob dove the site. I have the GPS coordinates for it somewhere.

 

[GatorBoy]

Do east of this..haha.
I think it should have been a little larger to have a chance of seeing it on Google Earth

 

[Corporate Investigations]

Nice find!

Pardon the Pun you hid the nail on the head about being able to date hand forged nails. But at a guess you could assume before the industrial revolution?

Has it been coated? I am surprised it is not just black if it was just copper exposed to salt and severe oxidization?

Muntz metal was patented around 1832. Most sheets would have patented stamp on the sheets. There was another similar alloy patented by William Collins in 1800

Amy

 

[ruhrt2]

I soaked the piece for two weeks in fresh water (changing it frequently). Then I dried in the sun. After it was completely dried I sprayed a thin layer of clear polyurethane on the piece to keep the copper from tarnishing more.

 

[GatorBoy]

I saw your piece on the local blog also.
Its a pretty cool one ..
I've found several with the holes but never still with the spikes can you post a photo showing the head of the spikes?
Oh nevermind I think I see it in one of the photos now.
I wonder if that may have been on a rudder.
They seemed a bit large for sheathing tacks.

 

[ruhrt2]

Left to right, pictures 3, 4 and 5 (especially 3) show the heads of the nails. They are flat not "rose head." You have to zoom in on pictures 4 and 5 to get an idea of what's above hidden by the copper sheet.

 

[SteveS]

Probably off an 1800's or early 1900's wreck. Those sheathing nails are fairly common for that time. There's an 1800's wreck mixed in with the Cabin site. Have a ships plank I made into a table with similar nails I found washed up on the beach off Corrigans from probably an 1800's or early 1900's wreck.

 

[GatorBoy]

True.
I've seen a couple of those.
I also saw a couple that were being sold as 1715 fleet planks.