Did the Apache's put the gold in Victoria Peak?

[Steamboat]

I just watched the TV program on Victoria peak. Their feeling was that Apache's put the treasure in Victoria Peak. I find that hard to believe. Why would the Apache's go to that trouble? What benefit would it have for them.

 

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[Grizz12]

I watched the same thing

I think the Apache's did have something to do with the cache but they may not have been the first ones there.

They went through the trouble because it was taking the treasures away from their enemy. Granted they didnt have any use for that stuff but they knew it was valuable to whoever they killed/raided to get it from. Any who knows, maybe they did take out some pieces, as needed, to sell or barter

 

[Clay Diggins]

The name is Victorio peak.

Where did the gold come from? Who would give it to an Apache?

I know a lot of Apaches and most have no use for gold or white people to this day. (That's an Apache in my avatar with the gold pan on his head) I find it fantastic, to say the least, that Apache organized to do this.

I was good friends with Bustamante, the hefe of the Armendariz grants. He called BS on those stories. If anyone would know he would. His family line goes back nearly 400 years there.

 

[Grizz12]

The name is Victorio peak.

Where did the gold come from? Who would give it to an Apache?

I know a lot of Apaches and most have no use for gold or white people to this day. (That's an Apache in my avatar with the gold pan on his head) I find it fantastic, to say the least, that Apache organized to do this.

I was good friends with Bustamante, the hefe of the Armendariz grants. He called BS on those stories. If anyone would know he would. His family line goes back nearly 400 years there.

The Apache probably did it to hurt their enemies by taking everything they valued and hiding it

 

[Clay Diggins]

The Apache probably did it to hurt their enemies by taking everything they valued and hiding it

I meant where was the gold mined? Who mined it and when? How did Apaches come to have the gold?

 

[Steamboat]

I think the Apache's could have hidden the gold etc. a lot easier. They could have tossed it down the nearest narrow ravine instead of transporting it all the way to Victoria peak. From what I have read, the Apache men didn't like manual labor. As much trouble as Noss had getting one bar out of the mountain I find it hard to believe that Apache's would have put 16,000 in there.
Also, where did all that gold come from? I don't think all the stage holdups, etc. in the whole wild West would come to 16,000 bars.

 

[Back-of-the-boat]

I think the Apache's could have hidden the gold etc. a lot easier. They could have tossed it down the nearest narrow ravine instead of transporting it all the way to Victoria peak. From what I have read, the Apache men didn't like manual labor. As much trouble as Noss had getting one bar out of the mountain I find it hard to believe that Apache's would have put 16,000 in there.
Also, where did all that gold come from? I don't think all the stage holdups, etc. in the whole wild West would come to 16,000 bars.

Don't forget about the Spanish mining in the Americas they had a lot of gold, so the history could go back a lot further than just the wild west days. It could have been gold from Spanish exploration also.

 

[autofull]

there was never that amount in there. if anything it was a few items the apache stashed but who knows. no proof exists.

 

[Grizz12]

The spanish stole it from the Aztecs and the Apache stole it from the spanish when they were moving it up north

 

[sdcfia]

I meant where was the gold mined? Who mined it and when? How did Apaches come to have the gold?

It is known that the Apaches traded gold for supplies with Mexicans and whites and likely stole it from others when they had opportunities to do so. We also know that the Chihene band under Mangas Coloradas mined placer gold from Bear Creek at Pinos Altos to some extent. IMO theApache had no connection with the gold allegedly removed from Victorio Peak by the US Government.

Then where did the gold come from? I'll briefly offer my conclusions in two parts - this post and the one that follows. [Alternative 2] is likely too controversial to be taken seriously by most readers, but here it is:

[Alternative 2] Thanks to the "treasure retrieval" hoax perpetrated by Milton Noss in the 1940s, many believed Victorio Peak was full of "Spanish gold." It wasn't. Even though this scam got Noss killed in 1949, it also provided a tailor-made means of laundering the many tons of Nazi gold plundered in Europe following World War II by the US Government. The fake Spanish gold legend was recycled into another convenient ruse. The WWII bullion was moved to Victorio Peak from parts unknown, then the well-publicized "removal from government property" occurred. Some speculate the gold's final destination was LBJ's ranch in Texas.

No gold in Victorio Peak, but what about Noss? IMO, Noss actually did have Spanish gold. See post below for an explanation and a plausible answer to the OP's questions - where did it come from?

 

[sdcfia]

[Alternative 1] This possible explanation is mine and should make more sense to most readers. Occam's Razor applies. We'll work backwards in time. Points made are brief. Much Victorio Peak documentation is available in The Gold House - The Discovery, by John Clarence, a book probably meant to support the Noss story, but instead exposes Milton Noss for the man he was. Highly recommended.
A) Noss was murdered 1949.
B) Noss operated Victorio Peak investment scam through much of the 1940s.
C) Noss "accidentally" dynamited Victorio Peak treasure trove entrance, initiating investment scam.
D) Noss "gold bars" 1939 assay ~80% Cu, ~150 oz/ton Au, ~100 Ag. This explains "dark color".
D) Noss "discovered" treasure trove entrance, 1937.
E) Noss misdirected attention away from Caballos, late 1930s. Salts Victorio Peak with Caballo bullion recovery. Gold bars were described as heavy and dark colored, like "pig iron."
F) Noss, Willy Douthit and others were involved in alleged gold recoveries and murders in the Caballo Mountains late 1920s to mid 1930s. Noss left area for Victorio Peak. Douthit left area for California with lots of money, and changed name to Laurence Foremen.
G) Sometime in the early 1800s, an unknown number of crudely smelted copper bars were moved from Santa Rita del Cobre 50 miles east to the Caballos. The circumstances (who, when, why, where) is undocumented. This Spanish mine's early bullion shipments were reported to have been mostly copper with large amounts of gold and silver.

The Noss gold bars were primarily copper with significant amounts of gold and silver. They were recovered in the Caballos (assay below). Their provenance may indeed be explained as matching the copper bullion mined by Carrasco and other Spaniards at Santa Rita beginning about 1800.

That said, it must be mentioned that the Santa Rita/Pinos Altos mining districts also produced large amounts of gold in locations other than the well known copper mine. There are even better legends of exceedingly rich recoveries and caches in the area, but let's just stick to the original topic.

 

[rebelminer]

[Alternative 1] This possible explanation is mine and should make more sense to most readers. Occam's Razor applies. We'll work backwards in time. Points made are brief. Much Victorio Peak documentation is available in The Gold House - The Discovery, by John Clarence, a book probably meant to support the Noss story, but instead exposes Milton Noss for the man he was. Highly recommended.
A) Noss was murdered 1949.
B) Noss operated Victorio Peak investment scam through much of the 1940s.
C) Noss "accidentally" dynamited Victorio Peak treasure trove entrance, initiating investment scam.
D) Noss "gold bars" 1939 assay ~80% Cu, ~150 oz/ton Au, ~100 Ag. This explains "dark color".
D) Noss "discovered" treasure trove entrance, 1937.
E) Noss misdirected attention away from Caballos, late 1930s. Salts Victorio Peak with Caballo bullion recovery. Gold bars were described as heavy and dark colored, like "pig iron."
F) Noss, Willy Douthit and others were involved in alleged gold recoveries and murders in the Caballo Mountains late 1920s to mid 1930s. Noss left area for Victorio Peak. Douthit left area for California with lots of money, and changed name to Laurence Foremen.
G) Sometime in the early 1800s, an unknown number of crudely smelted copper bars were moved from Santa Rita del Cobre 50 miles east to the Caballos. The circumstances (who, when, why, where) is undocumented. This Spanish mine's early bullion shipments were reported to have been mostly copper with large amounts of gold and silver.

The Noss gold bars were primarily copper with significant amounts of gold and silver. They were recovered in the Caballos (assay below). Their provenance may indeed be explained as matching the copper bullion mined by Carrasco and other Spaniards at Santa Rita beginning about 1800.

That said, it must be mentioned that the Santa Rita/Pinos Altos mining districts also produced large amounts of gold in locations other than the well known copper mine. There are even better legends of exceedingly rich recoveries and caches in the area, but let's just stick to the original topic.

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That pretty much covers it. Good job on your research. I have researched a few things this well and I am usually disappointed in the end results but there is always...... always a trail if there was every any truth in the legend. The hunt is what keeps me hunting !!

 

[detectit]

I just watched the TV program on Victoria peak. Their feeling was that Apache's put the treasure in Victoria Peak. I find that hard to believe. Why would the Apache's go to that trouble? What benefit would it have for them.

THEY WERE SCREWING WITH EM! RUNNING THROUGH THEIR BACK YARD. GOOD, SHOWED THEM OWN THAT LAND. FOR AWHILE.