18 year old Texas Relics Law Needs to be Repealed. Causing More Harm than Good.

[AusTexDude]

The 100 year relics law in Texas breeds a black market for items located within Texas boundries. You are breaking the law if you find ANYTHING dated before 1914 and keep it.

If Joe Schmoe finds 500 silver dollars from 1899 does he call the authorities and tell them? No, he sells them on Ebay and says they were his Grandfathers.

If you find an Indian Head penny and keep it, you are a criminal in the eyes of Texas. Arrowheads, can't keep them. The law could even cover fossils.

The law was passed out of revenge basically and serves no purpose. Nobody that finds anything is going to turn it in. They will say they found it in NM or something.

Since the law was passed I am sure that important discoveries in Texas are WAY DOWN, because nobody wants to lose what they find, so it magically vanishes.

The people that passed the law 18 years ago are most likely all gone from politics. It's time to change it.

 

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[pyledriver]

Good luck. The morons in the ivory towers who want to control everything are more numerous than ever! Might not be the same bunch, but they're all the same type.

They don't know what's out there but want it all. They'll never get to the vast majority of it, yet would be happier to let it rot than for any of us to find it. Imagine what would come to light if they had a cooperative attitude.

Their very attempt to control with an iron fist has resulted in losing more than they've gained. Who knows what treasures and artifacts have been found and not reported. I will say this, landowners will not talk about historic things because they don't want the government, state or fed, interfering with their land.

Stupid is as stupid does...

 

[Texas Kid]

OK ! Lets get on it!! Could you guide me to the documentation>>> Code ,Chapter, rule number and such! I'll do my part to stop this kind of nonsense! Let me know! I'm ready to do something about it! The Kid

 

[silvermagnet]

does anyone in the gov really care enough to lock you up for a coin worth $2

 

[wingmaster]

The thing is they couldn't prove when the coin or whatever item it is was lost, there have been people that find silver dollars in the wood chips at a playground that's only been there a few years. Your not guilty until proven and as I see it there is no way they can say when that coin was lost and there are all kinds of coins people collect that are way older than that, so unless they say you just can't even own a coin or other object over so old I just don't see how they would ever prove when that coin was lost. A child might get a coin out of his dad's collection without him knowing and lose it at a playground or wherever. HH

 

[silvermagnet]

i think we all know most texans on this forum have broken that law

 

[relicmeister]

Thanks for posting this AustTexDude, I didn't know this, and while I'm not a Texan this is interesting (and ridiculous) to most.
Coming from Texas I'm surprised. My suggestion is that while not of importance to a majority, that might actually make it easier to change.
I would write to your State representatives, and try to convince them to submit a motion to repeal the statute . You have nothing to lose.

 

[wingmaster]

If one would check a law like this is probably in every state as I'm from IN and we have a law like that here as well, thing is can they really prove when it was lost, I don't think so. If anyone could prove it someone would have to have documented the loss back in the day or been there when it was lost, just like I got sick and was pretty close to death with histoplasmosis that I know I got from work as they made us clean out bird nests and clean up bird droppings, now can I prove that's where I got it? no there's no way to prove that's where it came from. HH

 

[texasred777]

Although I no longer live in Texas, I didn't know about this law either. Are you saying that it's against the law to posses an item made before 1914; or if it was LOST before 1914? If it's against the law to have something made before 1914, there are a LOT of people in trouble. It must state that something lost before 1914 must be reported. Either way, there should be a law against that law!

 

[xrunndonex]

The 100 year relics law in Texas breeds a black market for items located within Texas boundries. You are breaking the law if you find ANYTHING dated before 1914 and keep it.

If Joe Schmoe finds 500 silver dollars from 1899 does he call the authorities and tell them? No, he sells them on Ebay and says they were his Grandfathers.

If you find an Indian Head penny and keep it, you are a criminal in the eyes of Texas. Arrowheads, can't keep them. The law could even cover fossils.

The law was passed out of revenge basically and serves no purpose. Nobody that finds anything is going to turn it in. They will say they found it in NM or something.

Since the law was passed I am sure that important discoveries in Texas are WAY DOWN, because nobody wants to lose what they find, so it magically vanishes.

The people that passed the law 18 years ago are most likely all gone from politics. It's time to change it.

So if I found a 1987 IH in a roll of change in Texas I'd be committing a crime if I didn't report it! Good thing I live in Kansas

 

[Texas Kid]

I'm thinking these laws pertain to State and Federal Parks and not in just Texas . Some of them were written because historical sites were being destroyed by people without honor for our history. Someone let me know if I'm out of line. If someone knows I'm wrong please cite the law! If its not a law for the common good it needs to be changed!! Thanks! The Kid

 

[jas415]

I think the statute is referred to as the Texas Antiquities Code. I thought it was passed in the middle '60's as a result of the galleon Platora Ltd., dug up off the middle Texas coast. Seems they found the wreck, anchored over it and propwashed all the sand off and then took about $60 million or more off it. The State then filed some suits to recover it claiming it was State property as it was within the 12 mile jurisdiction. The entire law has been used to close parks, close areas of ranches, even confiscate a huge display of Indian artifacts at Steven F Austin, loaned to the university for an Indian exhibit. Took the rancher a few months and loads of lawyer money to get it back. Seems some little turd from Austin was viewing the exhibit, saw the ranchers big shadow boxes of arrowheads, and other Indian artifacts, that he and his family had picked up on this own property over the previous hundred years, and the 'official' then had them seized as 'state property'. The state should have a law similar to Florida or to England. Those laws encourage discoveries.

 

[silvermagnet]

i agree with jas415 a ''treasure act'' type of law would not be too bad compared to the current law.

 

[coazon de oro]

Gentlemen,

We have had the Antiquity Act since 1906, which protects historical sites on Federal and Native American lands only. In 1967, Platoro LTD, which is a private company based out of Indiana, was working the wreck of the Espiritu Santo, although it had not yet been identified as such. Texas did not like the fact that they were taking their finds out of Texas to Indiana, and put a stop to it, because Congress had declared that ten miles of water all along the coast belonged to the state. Platoro sued Texas, and after a long struggle got a small settlement in 1983.

During that court battle Texas enacted the Texas Antiquities Code of 1969. It protects anything pre-twentieth century in State lands only, this includes anything public. Then in 1979, the Archaeological Resources Protection Act came into play. It protects artifacts over 100 years old in Federal lands.

So the U.S. Government has jurisdiction over things on Federal, and Native American lands, while Texas has jurisdiction over state, and local Government properties. Neither has any claim to treasures, or artifacts found on private land, nor can they declare Historical Landmarks on any private land without the owners written consent.

The burden of proof always lies on the accuser, so artifacts can't just get confiscated because they are old without knowing where they came from. Artifacts that were found in Federal or State lands before the laws were enacted, can not be taken away either because no law was there to be broken at the time.

Homar

 

[deodra]

does anyone in the gov really care enough to lock you up for a coin worth $2

They certainly could and it's not unheard of for a politician to make an example of someone.

 

[jas415]

The wording of the act plainly states anything in, on or under the land in the state of Texas! Not public land. That wording is used to stop private landowners and has been used many times.

"Sec. 191.002. DECLARATION OF PUBLIC POLICY. It is the public policy and in the public interest of the State of Texas to locate, protect, and preserve all sites, objects, buildings, pre-twentieth century shipwrecks, and locations of historical, archeological, educational, or scientific interest, including but not limited to prehistoric and historical American Indian or aboriginal campsites, dwellings, and habitation sites, archeological sites of every character, treasure imbedded in the earth, sunken or abandoned ships and wrecks of the sea or any part of their contents, maps, records, documents, books, artifacts, and implements of culture in any way related to the inhabitants, pre-history, history, natural history, government, or culture in, on, or under any of the land in the State of Texas, including the tidelands, submerged land, and the bed of the sea within the jurisdiction of the State of Texas."

 

[coazon de oro]

The wording of the act plainly states anything in, on or under the land in the state of Texas! Not public land. That wording is used to stop private landowners and has been used many times.

"Sec. 191.002. DECLARATION OF PUBLIC POLICY. It is the public policy and in the public interest of the State of Texas to locate, protect, and preserve all sites, objects, buildings, pre-twentieth century shipwrecks, and locations of historical, archeological, educational, or scientific interest, including but not limited to prehistoric and historical American Indian or aboriginal campsites, dwellings, and habitation sites, archeological sites of every character, treasure imbedded in the earth, sunken or abandoned ships and wrecks of the sea or any part of their contents, maps, records, documents, books, artifacts, and implements of culture in any way related to the inhabitants, pre-history, history, natural history, government, or culture in, on, or under any of the land in the State of Texas, including the tidelands, submerged land, and the bed of the sea within the jurisdiction of the State of Texas."

Howdy jas415,

You will notice in the end of that statement that it is referring to what is within the jurisdiction of the State of Texas. It had already been established that private land is not within the jurisdiction of the State of Texas.

Homar

 

[jas415]

Homar, I respectfully disagree with you on the jurisdiction. We may be talking about the semantics of the issue, but I know of a rancher near Nagodoches, that was arrested and taken to jail, his Indian artifacts which he had collected for over 50 years on his own property confiscated and it took him over 2 years and $200,000 in lawyers to get clear his name and get his property back. The State of Texas has jurisdiction over all of Texas, including private property! Otherwise how does a game warden come on your land, how does a police officer come on your land, How does a state municipality regulate what you can or cannot do on your land? The EPA has jurisdiction over your private land, the courts have jurisdiction. In most of Texas you cannot just go dig a water well on your land, or an oil well, or mine uranium or gold without State permits! The State of Texas does have jurisdiction and have on many many occasions stopped private landowners from activities on their private land! If you think the state does not have jurisdiction about some buried treasure, just tell everyone you know that you dug up a hoard of Spanish gold in you back yard and see what happens! Again, I am not trying to start a whizzing contest.

 

[deodra]

Homar, I respectfully disagree with you on the jurisdiction. We may be talking about the semantics of the issue, but I know of a rancher near Nagodoches, that was arrested and taken to jail, his Indian artifacts which he had collected for over 50 years on his own property confiscated and it took him over 2 years and $200,000 in lawyers to get clear his name and get his property back. The State of Texas has jurisdiction over all of Texas, including private property! Otherwise how does a game warden come on your land, how does a police officer come on your land, How does a state municipality regulate what you can or cannot do on your land? The EPA has jurisdiction over your private land, the courts have jurisdiction. In most of Texas you cannot just go dig a water well on your land, or an oil well, or mine uranium or gold without State permits! The State of Texas does have jurisdiction and have on many many occasions stopped private landowners from activities on their private land! If you think the state does not have jurisdiction about some buried treasure, just tell everyone you know that you dug up a hoard of Spanish gold in you back yard and see what happens! Again, I am not trying to start a whizzing contest.

Unfortunately, this is the truth. The way it should be and the way it is are two polar opposites. Stupid, but true.

 

[coazon de oro]

Howdy jas415,

I tried to cut and paste what the State itself has to say about the Antiquities Code in plain English, but for some reason I could not paste it. Anyway, if you go to www.thestate.tx.us, you can see that the laws were established to preserve the History of our State by protecting relics found on public land.

Title 9. Chapter 191. Antiquities Code, is part of the Natural Resources Code. At the beginning it established where these laws will govern:

Title 2. Public Domain

Sub-Chapter B. Territory and Boundaries of the State

Sec. 11.011. Vacant and Unappropriated Land.

Homar