alamo bowie knife

[michael bergman]

looking for anyone who has knowledge about bowie knives. and the name (D.F. KERBOW).

 

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[vpnavy]

FWIW - I searched the net and found absolutely nothing. It would be nice if you had a picture. Say, the D.F. KERBOW - was the printed or does it look like someone scratched the name on the knife?

 

[BosnMate]

Several years ago, perhaps longer than that, I think the late 70's, there was an article in "Muzzleloader Magazine" on what they thought was the original Bowie knife. I remember this, because I made a copy of the knife myself, but gave it away. Here is their home page, Muzzleloader, The Publication for Traditional Black Powder Shooters
I sent them an email asking if they have a copy of the magazine or the story, however the magazine has apparently changed hands since that time, so will have to wait and see what they come up with.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

the kerbow name is part of texas history...couldn't find a D.F. though...sorry.


a photograph of the knife might help. include tang stamp.

 

[BosnMate]

D.F. KERBOW might possibly had something to do with that article. Or, I recall that they made some copies of that knife later on, and had them advertised for sale in that same magazine, perhaps he had something to do with that.

 

[BosnMate]

I keep remembering things. The story was something about a Mexican Soldier at the Alamo finding and keeping the knife. He knew nothing about Bowie or the fame of the knife. The family kept the knife, and somehow someone, perhaps Kerbow was able to get the knife from the family. The story sounded good, and the provenance was believable, and the knife really looked like it might be, and the copy that I made really fit my hand and was balanced well. That's all I can remember now, maybe the magazine will answer my email.

I was all wet with the above info. Austin gave us a web site "Alamo de Parras" and it tells us about the Bart Moore knife, which is the one in the magazine article.

 

[Red James Cash]

The smith who made the knife was named James Black.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

one story has the blacksmith james black making the bowie knife...there are other stories...
the is no evidence that bowies knife was recovered from the Alamo, or transferred to anyone prior to battle...

 

[Red James Cash]

THE STORY OF JAMES BLACK
SILVERSMITH - BLACKSMITH - KNIFESMITH - ARKANSAS PIONEER

Written by:
Lu Waters
Great-Great-Great-Granddaughter of James Black

James Black was born May 1, 1800, in New Jersey. He died June 22, 1872, in Washington, Arkansas. He trained as a silversmith in Philadelphia when a young boy. He emigrated to the Arkansas frontier about 1820, thus becoming a pioneer of Arkansas and a citizen of a new community where he learned a new trade as a blacksmith, fell in love, raised a family, and became a leader in the community. He is given credit for forging a knife for Jim Bowie who was a frontiersman, a speculator in land, a slave trader, and an Indian fighter.



James Black is on the right and his good friend Jacob Buzzard is on the left. Some writers have mistakenly reversed this identification.

James's mother died when he was very young. His father then married a woman with whom James could not agree. At the young age of eight, even though he looked much older, he ran away from home and made his way to Philadelphia. Apparently he was picked up by the authorities and then became indentured to a silversmith named Henderson. This arrangement was said to have been approved by his father. It was this training that he received as an apprentice that in later years enabled him to easily work with other metals and learn the trade of a blacksmith in a very short time.

James was released from his silversmith apprenticeship in 1818 but due to the British competition in the trade, he decided not to go into that business but instead he decided to go west to the American frontier to seek adventure and fortune. He traveled overland until he reach the Ohio River and then took to the waterways traveling down the big Mississippi River until he reach Bayou Sara in Louisiana. He worked on a ferry boat for a short time. Soon tiring of that, he then hired out as a deck hand on a steamboat going up the Red River. James left the boat at a point which is now know as Fulton, Arkansas. He walked up a trail running northeast for about 14 miles to a crossing of another trail where he found a few folks had already settled.

With little money and no trade that was useful on the frontier, James had to find employment. With his background in working with metals, he chose to become a blacksmith and was employed by William Shaw, a man from Tennessee who already had a shop set up. Daniel W. Jones, former Governor of Arkansas, states in "The True History of the Bowie Knife and Its Inventor, James Black" that: "In those days, the village blacksmith was a far more important man than he is now." In a short period of time, James had easily mastered the art of making plows, hoes, wagons, and other farm equipment implements as well as guns and knives. It has been stated that he was soon recognized as the best blacksmith in the country.

James enjoyed activities with the young people of the Washington community. He became close friends with the older Shaw sons, but he fell deeply in love with Anne Shaw, the oldest daughter. For reasons unknown, Mr. Shaw opposed his daughter ever marrying James Black. Evidently James became so discouraged that he gave up his work at Shaw's Blacksmith Shop and decided to travel further west. The Daniel W. Jones story tells us he selected a location on the Rolling Fork of the Cossatot River where he cleared land, built a cabin, and started to build a dam. In the fall of 1825, the sheriff appeared and informed James that his land had been ceded to the Indians and he must leave. That portion of the country became known as Indian Territory.

With no money and no place to live, James decided to go back to Washington. It was reported that he worked again for William Shaw for a short period of time but eventually opened his own blacksmith shop and begun to prosper.

In spite of her father's opposition, James Black and Anne Shaw were married in Washington, Arkansas, on June 29, 1828. The following seven years were probably the happiest years of James's life. His business was growing, and his reputation as a knife maker was spreading, and he was married to the woman he loved. Five children were born in these seven years. They were William Jefferson (1829), Grandison Deroyston (1830), Sarah Jane (1832), John Colbert (1834), and Sydinham James (1835).

James became a responsible citizen in the community and the area surrounding Washington. He was appointed to patrol the Ozan Township, appointed overseer of the road leading from Washington to the eastern boundary of the Saline Township, and appointed deputy jailor of Hempstead County by two different sheriffs. James was elected Trustee of the Town of Washington on October 27, 1834. He served on several jury panels, including an inquest jury. He bought and sold land and slaves, borrowed money, and even filed cases in court to recover money for services he had performed and had not received payment. Daniel W. Jones and Augustus Garland, both former Governors of the State of Arkansas, wrote that James had a excellent memory of frontier times and that, even in later years, was able to settle disagreements about early happenings in the county.

James Black forged a knife for Jim Bowie in his shop in Washington, Arkansas, during the winter of 1830-31. The knife pleased Mr. Bowie and from that time until his death in 1836, Jim's use of that knife acclaimed to the world that Mr. Black did indeed possess the secret of special tempering of knives. Little did James Black ever realize that in making of that knife for Jim Bowie, he would establish an enduring place for himself in the history of bladesmithing.

Of course, James Black never realized that he had influenced history in any way. But it was, at least partly, due to his reputation as the blacksmith who created one of the earliest bowie knives here in Arkansas that gave the state the nickname of the "bowie knife state."

Today, James Black is probably best remembered for the knives that he forged. There are three good examples of his work available to be seen today. The "Carrigan Knife" has the best documented history of owners, back to the time when James Black made it. This knife, along with "Bowie Number One," is currently on display at the Arkansas Territorial Restoration in Little Rock. The "Tunstall Knife," along with its documentation, is on display in the Saunders Memorial Museum in Berryville, Arkansas.

The foremost bladesmith in the world today, Bill Moran of Braddock Heights, Maryland, has made the following comment concerning knives made by James Black: "They are spectacular knives with all that gleaming silver. They are very different; they have been forged so that the tang tapers towards the blade and also tapers from the back to the edge side--never seen before in other knives. On earlier blades (ones forged prior to 1820), we've never seen a coffin-shaped handle like these."

John Fleming in his book, "The Tale of James Black...The Man Who Made the Original Bowie Knife," wrote the following: "In fiction, the life of James Black would never be believed. In fact, it has never been accorded the recognition it deserves. Washington, a forgotten crossroads, is nine miles from Hope on state Highway 4 and 18 miles from Nashville, also on Highway 4. The blacksmith shop of James Black has been restored, and the tavern where Black probably ate in his early days at Washington and where Sam Houston, Stephen Austin, and Bowie lived while in Arkansas, has been reconstructed. There is the old courthouse that served as the state capitol during the Civil War and old homes lend a touch of grandeur to the scene. Probable nowhere in the Southwest is there a better collection of pioneer antiques than in this multi-building museum complex. And, of all the wraiths that spur one's sense of history at this picturesque Arkansas village, the ghost of James Black is the most dramatic."

For more information about James Black, consult the following sources:

1) The Gazette (Arkansas Gazette), June 29, 1828; September 12,
1835; February 15, 1842; June 1872; September 1, 1872; June 11, 1908.

2) Telegraph, Washington (Arkansas), December 8, 1841

3) Arkansas Democrat: Sunday Magazine, April 16, 1941

4) Washington, Arkansas: History on the Southwest Trail (1984) by Mary Medearis.

5) American Silversmiths and Their Marks (1948) by Stephen G. C. Ensko.

6) Sam Williams: Printer's Devil (1979) by Mary Medearis.

7) The Old Town Speaks by Charlean Moss Williams.

8) Arkansas Historical Quarterly, Vol. LIII, Summer 1994, No. 2: "Arkansas and the Toothpick State Image" by William B. Worthen.

9) Congressional Record of the United States of America,
proceedings and debates of the 92nd Congress, Second Session, Washington, Monday, April 10, 1972. Senate.

10) "The Tale of the Man Who Invented the Bowie Knife" by John Fleming.

11) Bowie Knife (1948) by Raymond W. Thorp

12) Early Days in Arkansas (1895) by Judge William F. Pope

13) Hempstead County, Arkansas Court Records. July 18, 1828; June 1, 1829; October 12, 1832; April 7, 1834; October 27, 1834; May 11, 1836; December 12, 1836; February 4, 1837; April 6, 1837; April 15, 1837; May 28, 1838; August 13, 1838; January 16, 1839; August 24, 1839; October 6, 1839; October 7, 1839; January 16, 1840; February 15, 1840; October 25, 1841; April 1844 Term of Court; July 1844 Term; July 1848 Term; October 3, 1870.

14) Original "Loose" Court Records of Hempstead County, Arkansas (Found at Southwest Arkansas Regional Archives): October 7, 1835; November 19, 1835; prior to June 15, 1836; April 6, 1837; January 16, 1839; July 22, 1839; April 2, 1866.

15) Probate Court Records of Hempstead County, Arkansas: October 25, 1841.

16) Territorial and Hempstead County Tax List, 1829, showing James Black in area.

17) Letters of Administration of Hempstead County, Arkansas, August 24, 1839.

18) KNIFE WORLD (Magazine), December 1992, Volume 18, Number 12

19) American Arms Collector Magazine, July 1957, "The Legend of James Black" by Ben Palmer.

20) Muzzleloader (Magazine), October 1974, "Bowie and Black Legend or Fact?" by B. R. Hughes.

21) Muzzleloader (Magazine), July/August 1975, "Another BLACK Knife is Located" by William Ward.

22) Dixie, Times-Picayune States Roto Magazine, October 20, 1957, "Who Invented the Bowie Knife?" by Karr Shannon.

23) Guns & Ammo Annual 1991, "Jim Bowie's IRON MISTRESS -- Reel Knife vs. Real Knife" by Joe Musso.

 

[austin]

Ok boys and girls. The web site you seek is Alamo de Parras. Enter, then at the bottom of the list it says, search alamo de parras. Click on then type in Bowie knife. You should get the complete history of the KNIVES that Rezin(Reason) and James Bowie designed as well as maybe Black's design of the most probable Alamo Knife, the "Bart Moore" knife. You can click on and view the individual blades. Have fun...

 

[BosnMate]

"Muzzleloader Magazine" has contacted me back, and the story was in the Jan/Feb 1975 issue. There are no copies of that issue left, but Bill Scurlock will email a copy of that story in a week or so, he's out of town now, and I'll post it on here when I get it.

 

[BosnMate]

Went to the site Austin recommended, and found this, which would be the story I'm talking about in the magazine article: "The Bart Moore knife is a claimant for the title of Bowie's Alamo knife. The Moore family asserts that an old Mexican soldier, who claimed to have participated in the storming of the Alamo, gave the knife to Mr. Moore's grandfather. The soldier supposedly retrieved the knife from where it lay by one of the funeral pyres and had kept it for many years. He offered it to Mr. James F. Moore as payment for a five-dollar debt.

The Moore Knife is a Clip point blade 8-1/4" long with iron furniture and an oak handle that appears to have been replaced. The blade has "J. Bowie" scratched on one side and the initials J.B. on the other. This knife not only claims to be the Alamo Bowie, but also the knife made by Arkansas blacksmith James Black from Bowie's original idea. Black claimed to have made two knives, one as Bowie requested and one of Black's own design. Bowie chose Black's design over his own."

 

[BosnMate]

I googled the Bart Moore Bowie, and by golly got some pictures, so even before the magazine article, here are a couple of pictures of Bart Moore's Bowie knife. It is now on display in a museum in Arkansas.
And also a color photo.

 

[michael bergman]

pictures of the bowie knife

this is the bowie knife in question. my great grandmother Mrs. Genevieve Kesir was the daughter of the head of the British consul in Durango Mexico. she gave stories about Poncho villas men trying to take over their home and her stripping this off of one of the men. she had stated that it was a Bowie knife but not much else as for when I was young she was already old. I am not stating that this is the Bowie knife from the Alamo heavens no! I am just wondering if anyone had any information on the tie between kerbow and Alamo knives.

 

[austin]

this is the bowie knife in question. my great grandmother Mrs. Genevieve Kesir was the daughter of the head of the British consul in Durango Mexico. she gave stories about Poncho villas men trying to take over their home and her stripping this off of one of the men. she had stated that it was a Bowie knife but not much else as for when I was young she was already old. I am not stating that this is the Bowie knife from the Alamo heavens no! I am just wondering if anyone had any information on the tie between kerbow and Alamo knives.

Don't think so, but you can search a couple of websites. One is the Daughters of the Republic of Texas Library at the Alamo. Just The Alamo.com and then click on the library and search. You can also contact them and they will help you. They have a sizable inventory of Alamo artifacts in their vault and may have more info. Other site is the Handbook of Texas online. It's what grad students get to do when their professors volunteer them to update the material. But in reality. I don't think there is a connection between your knife and the Alamo. Bowie was famous for the Sandbar Fight, but that was earlier than the Alamo and with a different knife. After the Alamo fell, European countries turned out millions of "Bowie type" knives. The world still does today. Your knife looks old and handmade and may be very valuable. Check with a knife collector and good luck...

 

[Argentum Lupus]

Good day all…

I read your site with much admiration and interest. However, there may be some misunderstanding in the acceptance that any knife today is that of Col James Bowie… pronounced Booo ie as it is in Scotland the birthplace of his parents.

In my 40 years plus in collecting and writing about Bowies there seems to be some flaws in what is, and what isn’t a Bowie? Though today many experts regard any large knife a Bowie. WRONG. It will be a large knife but NOT a Bowie.

There are only two kinds of Bowie, and only one that should be called a true Bowie – one that which has a clipped point, as this is the one that most, if not all the copies try to emulate. The other should be known as the Searles Bowie, and as you are aware made by one of the most renowned knife makers in America at the time. The Searles Bowie’s fundamental design was taken from the European butcher’s knife which had a straight back edge and from the tip curving down to the main cutting edge, with no cross guard. Anything else would be like saying that a pelican is some kind of eagle? Wrong. It has all the similarities such as wings, beak and feathers, but you know what the real differences are.

During the rising fortunes of the Bowie brothers their disposable wealth grew, and about that time James reputedly took a wooden prototype to cutler James Black, and the inevitable clipped Bowie was born. We have to accept that throughout history knives and other weapons too had a clipped point, but no legend was ever attached to them. With respect, the claim in recent years that Bart Moore's Bowie knife is the actual knife (or a faithful reproduction) James used at the Alamo is simply and utterly preposterous! It is poorly designed, made of inferior materials and does not have the appeal, or seem to have any balance for anyone who has any inkling to take it into close combat. Yet, the Musso does! It imbues the knife with elegance, of great proportion and limitless close combat possibilities. Who knows whatever happened to the original? In my research here in the UK and in many trips and extended stays in the US the best that we can (or anyone for that matter) say is that it was picked up by a Mexican soldier, spirited away and used over many years until ignominiously thrown away or discarded. In my discussions with many collectors, university professors and knife makers, they all agree that the sheer paucity of knives that have survived since the early 19th century is that they were utility tools. When they became blunt they were sharpened time and time again, until there was very little of the original shape and size left to recognise.

Some historians have suggested that James Black made two knives… one of his own and James Bowie’s. There is a fundamental error here. Why would a renowned cutler who’s reputation it is to provide customers with exactly what they have requested waste precious time and materials on making another knife? I and other Bowie knife collectors have thought this very odd indeed and not in keeping with any acute businessman plying his skilled trade. So the basic proportions for a Bowie knife are, a large heavy blade 10 – 12 inches, sharpened clipped point with a large cross guard, adorned as you wish.

Sheffield and Birmingham West Midlands UK provided an enormous amount of high quality knives in various sizes and shapes, and according to many collectors in the US and the UK the brand I*XL is near the top of their list of ‘must have’s.’ Another large popular knife of the time was the Arkansas toothpick, sometimes even this was called a Bowie? Wrong! This was a straight edged lengthy pointed blade about 12 – 14 inches long, not to be also confused with the spear point Bowie.

Lastly, Greg Martin renowned US Bowie knife collector and historian states that the Wolstenholm’s I*XL is the king of Bowie knives, and I for one would not argue.

 

[gunsil]

I googled the Bart Moore Bowie, and by golly got some pictures, so even before the magazine article, here are a couple of pictures of Bart Moore's Bowie knife. It is now on display in a museum in Arkansas.
View attachment 844926 And also a color photo. View attachment 844929

FAKES!! Just because they are in a museum does not mean they are real. There are NO known PROVABLE Alamo knives or any known to have belonged to Jim or Rezin bowie.