Anyone up here in B.C... what do you think about the new changes?

[Willy]

Just got my BCID & was looking at how they're going to run placer mining in B.C. Looks simple, but what a pain in the a$$ this new cell system is going to be. Those with existing claims are probably going to be steamed. What do you think?..Willy.

 

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[Chris in BC]

I have multiple claims in BC and am not going to be steamed up about anything, mining regs are going in the right direction, opened up sluicing throughout the province and some dredging areas, namely the Island. As far as the new grid/map staking, it doesn't affect existing claims at all, in fact existing claims give the owners a few more rights to certain grids, or the remaining portion of unclaimed grids. Just a different way to do things is all, if anyone should be steamed it's the poor gals in the gold commishioners offices that have to babysit and handhold 5000 miners through the process of staking, retaining and locating new and old claims.

Chris

 

[Willy]

That's the first I've heard about sluicing. Does a person still need a claim or is it open season on unclaimed, non-restricted land? What about dredging? Man, it would be great news if they lifted the current restrictions on sluicing/dredging. Especially when sampling an area for potential colour. It's a lot better to be able to run a few yards through the sluice prior to claiming. ..Willy.

 

[Earl]

Hey Willy, I liked your report on the Garrett Infinium L/S. I live here in south central Oregon. I have a lot of magnetic black sand here and loads of alkali on my property. I wonder if that Garrett Infinium would be the ticket as I like to look for relics and coins. I also do some electronic prospecting. I have 2 tessoro gold demons now for gold hunting and they seem to work fine but I wonder if the Garrett Infinium would do better. Let me know what you think? Keep up the prospecting in B.C. and keep us posted with info and pictures of your gold nugget finds with the Infinium. Can't wait to hear more as I can't decide whether to get a Tessoro Tejon for relic and coins or bite the bullet and get the Garrett. See you later Willy Bye Earl

 

[Willy]

Hi Earl.

I'd get a Tesoro Lobo rather than a Tejon. Buy one used & save some bux. Despite all the hype surrounding the Tejon, & now the Cibola/Vaquero, they're still nowhere near being in the same league re. prospecting as the LST. If you want the dual disc., buy a LST & wire in a pot & momentary switch into the disc. & mount it on the faceplate. In regards to the Garrett/Lobo decision, it depends on your ground & what kind of gold you expect to find. When it comes to small gold the LST wins hands down. It's only when the nuggets get bigger that the infinium blows away the LST, at least in hot ground. Problem is, if you're in an area that does'nt have sizeable nuggets, you're outta luck with the Infinium. One thing, though, that you have to consider is the infinium's ability to ID "iron" at depth. I don't know what the cutoff is wherein a nugget will read as a high conductor, but the chances are pretty slim that you'll find one. Given that, you can walk past a LOT of big deep iron that would have you digging with a vlf. When it comes to coins & the Infinium, it looks like the disc. can be boosted a bit to knock out some small garbage but, beyond that, it's probably a trash fest. I'll play around trying to see if silver (quarter & above) can be ID'd with any reliability, but it doesn't look too promising so far. The LST would be a far better bet. Right now I've got a cold, so not much testing going on.. couple of days & we'll see. ..Willy.?

 

[Earl]

Thanks Willy for the info. I already have 2 good gold machines. I have 2 of the Diablo 2 tessoro gold machines. In the test that the Shasta miners assoc. did a few years back, the diablos beat the lobo by a little. They don't make the diablos any more but I have hung onto mine as they are hot on small and I mean small nuggets like 1 and 2 grainers. What I realy want is a coin and relic machine that will work in this bad soil. That is why I was looking at the tejon or the vaquaro. But I like the features of the tejon better. The only advantage to the lobo is the auto ground tracking which would be nice out here. But if the clock speed of the computer chip is not fast enough when in auto ground tracking mode you could miss a lot of stuff while the unit was retuning I think? But I may bite the bullet and pick up a used tejon or lobo LST. Thanks for all the good advice Willy. I appreciate it and I think I will get a lobo LST. Pleeeeeeez post some of your finds from up there in B.C. I want to see how that Infinium does on the gold. I want to see you finding some big honkin nuggets. Good luck. Bye for now Earl

 

[amxgerry]

i allways try to keep up to date on bc rules and regs, but what areas have been opened up to allow silt or tailings into any trickle of water ?? as far as i know its still covered by fisherys and oceans regulations, and no silt or tailings into any creek etc.


where in bc can one dredge or discharge silt into a creek? or are we taiking sluicing and dredging in a settling pond?

hey willy... what part of bc you located?


gerry@ prince george bc.

 

[amxgerry]

hey chris


do you have a link to new regs in bc.? i checked minfiles, mineral tenure act etc etc, and i see nothing new!

thanks gerry

 

[amxgerry]

well.. i checked fed fish as well, which overides the gold commissioner and its same old regs.

there idea of a harmfull discharge includes= silt sediment, and tailings.

sure hoping i am wrong in presuming it is illegal to dredge for gold anywhere in canada at all... not just b.c. (unless tailngs are dishcharged into a stettling pond and one stays a minimum of 10 horizontal meters away from high water mark)


direct copy and paste from fed fish web site!

..................................................................................................................................................................................


Be Aware of the Fisheries Act
and Other Legislation
The federal Fisheries Act provides for the protection of fish habitat. Under this Act, no one may carry out any work that harmfully alters, disrupts or destroys fish habitat, unless authorized by Fisheries and Oceans Canada. The Act also states that no one is permitted to deposit a deleterious (harmful) substance into water containing fish.

Violations can result in substantial fines, the risk of imprisonment and a requirement to cover the costs of returning the site to its original state. Other legislation that may also be relevant to dredging is outlined in the introductory fact sheet: Working Around Water? What You Should Know About Fish Habitat.

 

[Willy]

Hey Gerry.? I'm way down here in the Okanagan, though I used to treeplant up in the PG area. Still trying to figure out the best place to prospect this summer. This is the year I'm gonna say "The hell with it" & finally get a claim. I like the Tulameen/Similkameen area 'cause of the very clement weather & a longer mining season, but I know there's some damn fine gold up north. Problem with the areas down here is that it's all claimed up & it seems that few people are actually working them. Cheap vacation property & fodder for speculators. Makes me sick. Someone who actually wants to make a go at mining is handicapped right at the start by the greed of lazy s.o.b.'s. One thing I'd like to do is get a claim on a non-fishbearing stream, figure that it would be easier to get a dredging permit. Maybe the new cell system will make things a bit easier insofar as the vacation panners won't need to get a full sized claim, leaving more open ground for others. ..Willy.

 

[Chris in BC]

AMX, I said nothing about dredge tailings or discharge, nor would I in a public forum. Quoting federal fisheries? counterproductive to the cause, thanks for the negative feedback though. enough said on that.

As far as the mining regs changing for sluicing, check with your gold commish, went into the book sometime this year.

Willy - Similkameen area is pretty claimed up, but dont let that dis-interest you in the area, lots of claim owners willing to work out deals or leases for a season or 2.
Chris

 

[Willy]

That can work out Chris; the problem is finding the owners & being in a good area. Did meet a couple of guys at the office in Princeton last spring. I think they were filing for more land, somewhere up on Lawless. One of them makes those injection molded square pans that I saw for sale at the hardware store. Picked one up to try. It works, but I still prefer my biga$$ garrett pan. ...Willy.

 

[goldhound]

Are those square pans you refer to the original LeTrap ones Willy? If so it must be the guy who bought the operation. Did he say where his manufacturing business is?
Wayne

 

[amxgerry]

hey chris

not trying to post negative feedback at all..

i sure cant see how posting actuall rules and regs is negative feedback. ignoring them sure does not help a cause at all. you do not seem to understand that fed fish overides all other departments.? call the gold commisioner yourself and ask him!

the reason they are passing legislation for more rules and regs is because too many envirometalists are out there pushing for even more rules and regs and people who are promoting mining or recreational mining are (in there opinion) damaging the enviroment.
(however not my opinion)

they are getting away with this, because too many of us are sitting back ignoring what they are doing and then acting surprised when they find out regs are not what they thought they were!


dredging or sluicing has allways been legal (with permits) so long as no tailings or discharge go into creek, so what is actually new? does one not need need the hand mining permits anymore or what?? fill us in, and then i will call gold commissioner and verify!

why not type out and clarrify these issues, and staighten me out if i am mistaken? (i wont consider it negative and will appreciate some accurate info)



hey willy.. it is allso illegal to hold a property for just camping and recreational purposes. if you can find a claim where they havent done there assessment work, or doing something ellse illegal, you can actually scoop the claim out from under them.

or find a claim holder doing something illegal as far as propspecting or mining goes and you can allso force them to forfeit the claim and then you can restake if you are first in line..(uhhh ohhh i can think of a claim holder that will be pissed about that)

as chris says...there is lots of people with claims that will let you on there propertys on a percentage basis, but problems will still occur, as gold brings out the worst in people..? you will still have to apply for permits, and if using any sort of equipment , you will have to post a recclamation bond minimum of 3500 bux,as well as everything ellse required.

lets say you do all that,? and actually find a good paystreak.. what would most claim owners do if they see you are actually making some money==? bye bye to you, and thanks for finding it for them!

an easy way to get a claim is to go to minfiles site and do a search for forfeited claims, (they are a little behind) and then check with gold commissioner to make sure they are actually still available.

i am not up on the new staking system and it may be more up too date. (will have to learn that next). anyone have any pointers or actually used the new system?

sad to say i had to learn so much about rules and regs as i have some hardrock boys surrounding me, and under me and they want my claim.(any way they can get it)

they want my claim as they want access to the upper end of my claim,(to there hardrock) and because i applied for work permits first,? i have first rights and they can not access, without my permission, unless on foot.

rather than pay me or make a deal with me= it is easier to get rid of me and get my claim any way they can.?

ohh yeahh.. it is bettor to get a claim on a non fish bearing creek all right, but most non fish bearing creeks dry up in the summer or they would be fish bearing. the other problem is= they lead to another fish bearing creek.


if anyone takes offence to my posting rules and regs= so sorry about that, but that is why there is so many of them now, and they are probably passing even more right now.

i think whats happening is, people are reading that certain mining sectors have got it somewhat easier for big companys to start mining in bc, and some regulations have eased off somewhat there, and some red tape will go thru faster than in the past, but all that is in regards to multi million dollar companys.

not for the weekend prospector or miner thou. however please correct me wherever i may be wrong, as i do want to be right up on all rules and regs as i will lose my claim if i dont.

ignoring whats going on does not help any cause, in any way shape or form.


rules and regs allways have gray areas as well, and are open to interpretation.? ?if anyone knows of any gray areas= please post them as well!


gerry (with sore fingers)

 

[Willy]

Hey Wayne. I don't know if they're the original LeTrap pans but, for now, I'll stick with my Garrett. Hi Gerry. Regarding holding a claim for use as recreational property, it can be hard to prove. It can also lead to bad blood & trouble in the future. I also agree that it's hard to find a claim owner that one can have confidence in. Greed is ever present and gold really does bring it out. Of course, that goes both ways. I've talked to people who counsel telling the big lie "Ain't found nothing much" to the claim holder. That's another strategy which will eventually bite a guy in the butt. When it comes to woking a non-fishbearing stream, I know of places where the water dives down underground, making it impossible to "contaminate" one that has fish.? It really doesn't matter much anyway (though try convincing environmentalists/ gov'ment) 'cause the sediment will settle out within a couple of hundred feet on a slow moving stream.? I'm talking here about a small dredge/highbanker operation, not a D9/track hoe/washplant style setup. I suppose that even a cad-hoe with a small trommel would'nt cloud up the water too much. Anyway, it would be nice if the gov. opened things up a little and allowed, at the least, sluicing without a permit/bond. There are too many people who do it anyway & the regs don't seem to be enforced with any real vigor. ..Willy.? ? ?

 

[amxgerry]

hey willy..

dont get me wrong.. i am allso looking for any easier way to do things and i am no envirometalist at all.. i have a dredge sitting in the corner as well... sure wouldnt take much to get it going again..

if there is new regulations= someone should be able to post the facts! isnt a forum to exchange info on??

i want to hear and belive it slackened up, but lets see the facts!

you wouldnt believe how many small scale recreational miners end up in the prince george or quesnel court house in the summer, and lose there equipment and get fined.

p.s. the rules and regs i quoted are from my permit on a" non" fish bearing stream.? ?my creek goes underground most summers in mid august in quite a few spots..? ?ussualy that is a sign of tailings from upstream further, but not allways.

the rules i quote are not for a d9 or a track hoe, but the smallest mechanical equipment possible.

? the rules are=? claim = 2000 cu meters per year or less.. the size of machine is irrelevant and same rules apply even if washing only 10 cu. meters or yards per year.

in order to disturb more than 2000 meters per year it must be a? LEASE not a claim.


d9,s track hoes, big equipment are only (ussually) used on a lease, as whats the point of bringing a d9 or a? 330 excavator to a claim if you can only work it for 2-3 days and then you are over your 2000 cu meters limit.. it would make no sense at all..

allso what is the point of any big eqipment on a claim when you are restricted to 1.5 in pump from creek and 2 in from settling pond.

with that small volume of water it would take days to wash enough gravel that big eqipment would dig up in miniutes ! the d9 or big excavator would only work a few minutes per day, and cost of it sitting there would run 2-300 bux an hour.

last time i looked a d9 hourly rate was aprox 425.00 per hour, so lets say 225.00 per hour to sit there idle.

yes i just happen to be a heavy equipment operator.

mechanized eqipment is still? equipment.. the cutoff is shovel and pick to equipment.. equipment can be a d9 or a tiny cad hoe... it doesnt matter, as rules are 2000 meters or less on claim, and 2000 meters or more must be a lease.


no i will not post rules and regs for big equipment on? a lease , as i doubt there is any big miners on this forum.. allso any one planning a big operation will allso spend weeks or months researching the rules and regs before considering any bigger operation.


sad to say it doesnt matter if provincial government opens things up to make things easier.. we are SCREWED? by the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENT LAWS OVERIDE PROVINCIAL LAWS.

we as the people sat back and allowed this to happen!? ?even now= we are sitting here bickering while they pass more laws to make it even more difficult.

just wait till the federal drinking water protection act takes effect 2 weeks from now on january 1st.

sure.. it will take months or years to implement as they dont have a clue as to what they are doing and it will take a while to get rolling.


p.s. creeks are not classified as fish or non fish bearing... i do belive there is 5 different classifications ranging from 1 - 5.maybe 6.


p.s. in my case= i allow people on my claim all the time.. all i ask is that you follow all regs to the T and let me know what you find.

i dont ask for a percentage or anything ellse..

again thou, any shallow bedrock i have is in a canyon and rest of ground is too deep to use pick and shovel.

i had people from bc alberta and saskatchewan come out..? most people were very good, but 1 left his household garbage behind unburnt in a fire pit, and that attracted bears when no-one was around as he was the last to leave... prior to that we never even saw a bear on the property, so now i dunno if its worth it!


allso there is some exceptions to working or moving a creek bed..? ?yes one can possibly get a permit in some cases, but this can take years and possibly many thousand of dollars and many thousands of man hours..? ?WAY OUT OF OUR LEAGUE....

the recclamation bond allone would probably run millions of dollars.. so i just shortened it up to say= its not legal for 99.99 % of recreational miners, which this forum seems to be made up of.


p.s. willy, where in the okanagon are you?? i had a lease on cherry creek between cherryville and nakusp , and used to live in vernon!


remember a few years ago when people would still go fishing without a licence.. dont see or hear of many anymore do we??


sure.. at first they didnt enforce the law too much.... but now??




keep in mind= we as the people allowed the enviromentalists to make it all happen.? they worked hard to get all these laws passed, and we sat back and allowed it too happen!

 

[Willy]

I rest my butt down in the southern Okanagan for the most part. Anywhere between Kelowna & Vernon. I live in an RV, so rent is cheap (non-existent). Gonna spend a good part of the winter lake hunting with my Infinium & then head out for the real gold. Just got myself another dog at the SPCA, so will be spending more time out in the sticks. Looks like the small scale miner in Canada is screwed. That's probably why so many are outlawing it. Hell, anyone can pick up a sluice (A52 let's say) & pack it into the wilderness to work a stream. With all the cutbacks in the gov. services, who's gonna check? There's a lot of land out there to cover & some very sneaky people. I wonder about other devices that might be classified as a pan. I was told that the Rotapan squeeked in under the wire. The whole thing is to be able to move more material without using a sluice or contravening the law(s). I also wonder about the PVC tube gravel suckers. The thing is, people get too full of big ideas. A couple of guys with a small (2-3") dredge/highbanker & 2 detectors can get pretty fat. The Ideal little unit would be a cad-hoe/trommel setup. Even a sluice can be very effective if one has some sort of gravel sucker. The key is in being selective & smart when mining. I know of one guy that told me that if he had to do it again, he'd just use a 5" dredge & detector (+ a pan). ...Willy.? ?

 

[amxgerry]

no i wouldnt say the small scale miner is screwed.. things are the same as they have been for a while now, and one needs to adapt.
it may change next month when federal drinking water act comes into effect thou.

after spending my entire weekend looking for new rules and regs that make things easier for small scale mining, sluicing, dredging or WHATEVER, i have come to the conclusion that someone was misinfomed , and twisted around a news broadcast that stated that some red tape was cut back for huge mining companys in northern bc, and somehow got it figured that regulations were headed in the right direction.

the rules and regs didnt change for them and in fact they are stiffer than ever. however= paper work used to take years to get approved, and now it may only take months. other benefits may have been thrown there way, such as some tax cuts, etc, to create employment, but not slacker rules and regs!

unfortunately, in someones rush to belive things changed, they didnt bother to look into rules and regs at all and posted a statement that got peoples hopes up for nothing.


yes there is a lot of sneaky people and thats why the politicians feel we need more regs and more policing.


willy= rotopans.. if i understand correctly= a hand crank one will sneek under the wire, and one powered by a battery will not.(however it is up to an individual inspector on how far they want to push it, or how they interpret the law..one may fine you, and another may let it go.)

a hand sucker is not mechanized so it should be ok for prospecting, but there is probably no rules or regs on that as they probably dont know what one is.

all rules laws and regulations are open to interpretation!

people that check are forestry, provincial fisherys, fed fish, mines inspector, game wardens, etc, etc, and we have them flying over the cariboo now with helicoptors on a regular basis, and it seems wednesday is the day they share the costs of helicopter time.

sure we can sneak up a stream with a small sluice, and probably not get caught, as theres no way they can enforce it all..

just like we can speed past a hwy speed limit sign and probably not get caught, but sooner or later you get a ticket..

i know a lot of miners with mechanical equipment , commercial operations and small operations and everyones biggest fear is fed fish, = not the gold commissioner, or mines and energy.


like willy said... there is a lot of claims sitting idle, but its not that these people are trying to screw anyone out of a claim etc, its just that rules and regs are so stiff that there is "nearly" no way to mine profitably, and conform to the law.

they hold them in hopes gold prices will rise, and rules and regs will get slacker. others hold them for a status quo, or for a cheap place to camp out.

if there was a way to turn a profit, the gravel would be flying, in near every gold bearing creek around.


now, one gray area seems to be detectors and it would appear they havent got around to that yet.


another sad part is= we have people paying there dues and filing there paper and assessment work and trying to do everything legal, and then we have others sneaking around, with no regards to laws, doing whatever they feel is ok, and ruining it for the rest of us, forcing the politicians to implement even more rules and regs.


ohhh well... back to work at camp and will be waiting to check here next weekend, in hopes someone will post on what rules and regs are slacker.

i sure am hoping i am wrong and that indeed some areas got opened up and some things got easier somewhere in bc.l

it shouldnt be very hard to post some short version= FACTS!