✅ SOLVED Belt Buckle Turner? Civil War? Just a buckle?

[cdsieg]

Found this on line with a similar buckle, I apologize for the all caps, copy and pasting, so... "VERY FINE CIVIL WAR HAND MADE GERMAN SILVER BELT BUCKLE MADE FOR AUGUST WENZEL, OF THE 20TH WISCONSIN. WENZEL WAS IN ONE OF THE FAMED GERMAN REGIMENTS WHICH MUSTERED IN AUGUST 12, 1862, AND OUT ON JULY 14, 1865. THIS JEWELER MADE HIGH QUALITY BUCKLE CONTAINS THE SLOGAN 'GUT HEIL' SEPERATED BY A CENTRAL WREATH OF LAUREL AND OAK LEAVES. WITHIN THE WREATH, TWO HANDS ARE JOINED IN A HANDSHAKE POSITION, AND BEHIND THE HANDS THERE IS A CROSSED SWORD AND TORCH. IN EACH CORNER THERE IS 'FRISCH, FREI, STARK, AND TREU'. BEAUTIFUL WORK! HAVE SEEN SIMILAR TURNER BUCKLES PRICED AT $ 2,000.00 +. Here is the link: Google Translate This ad says "german silver, it looks brass or bronze to me, like mine but what do I know.
Here is the photo of their buckle:
Anyhow any help would be appreciated! It says C.F Kleinsteuber on the back.

C.F. had a Machine and engraving Shop in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. From what I read it was a place in the 1800's where inventers gathered and it is the place where Christopher Sholes invented the typewriter.

 

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[nhbenz]

Some relevant info, I think?
2360-5 Belt
About » History of Milwaukee Turners | Turner Hall & The Milwaukee Turners

 

[DCMatt]

nhbenz provides good info, as usual.

If the question is "was this buckle made for a Civil War era miltary unit", the answer is no. It is 'possible' that it was worn by a soldier but it is not specific to military service.

Here is info on the engraver.

[TABLE="width: 1"]
[TR]
[TD="class: tdtext, width: 150"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtext"]C.F.KleinsteuberMachinist&Engraver
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tdtext, width: 150"]Description
[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtext"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tdtext, width: 150"]Notes/Transcript
[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtext"]KleinsteuberMachineShop and residence, located on oldTamarackSt(318)Now322WStateSt.Experimentalwork on the typewritercarried on here 1867-1873.Now1959known as the StagHotel and Restaurant.CarlF.Kleinsteuber here 1856 to 1881/1882.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tdtext, width: 150"]Old address
[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtext"]318 State St
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tdtext, width: 150"]Current
address
[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtext"]322 W State St
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

DCMatt

 

[creskol]

Is this attachment right for the period?

 

[cdsieg]

Is this attachment right for the period?

I don't know the answer to that question, but here is a picture of the back of my buckle...

 

[cdsieg]

Some relevant info, I think?
2360-5 Belt
About » History of Milwaukee Turners | Turner Hall & The Milwaukee Turners

Great Info. Thanks for sharing that.

 

[cdsieg]

nhbenz provides good info, as usual.

If the question is "was this buckle made for a Civil War era miltary unit", the answer is no. It is 'possible' that it was worn by a soldier but it is not specific to military service.

Here is info on the engraver.



DCMatt

Thanks DCMatt, I know you know your stuff when it comes to Civil War things, so I am not questioning your knowledge, I would just like to know if the buckle I was comparing mine to if that one is a Civil War buckle? If it is, what makes you sure that mine isn't? Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.

 

[DCMatt]

Thanks DCMatt, I know you know your stuff when it comes to Civil War things, so I am not questioning your knowledge, I would just like to know if the buckle I was comparing mine to if that one is a Civil War buckle? If it is, what makes you sure that mine isn't? Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.

I'm not saying it wasn't or could not have been made or worn during the war. It may well have been. I'm simply saying that it is not specifically a military item. You buckle is rare and very cool but it is a buckle for a civilian society, not made for a military unit.

I have plenty of relics found on known CW sites. The ones that are civilian in nature I don't consider "war" items even though they were probably used or worn by soldiers during the war.

DCMatt

 

[nhbenz]

Well, for what it's worth, this site states that this motto wasn't adopted until 1880 (11th paragraph);
The Turners - GermanMarylanders
I don't know if maybe some groups used it before then or if other websites are incorrect about the dates that these buckles were made?
Whatever turns out to be the case it's a very nice buckle with cool history behind it.

Updated; this group apparently used it in 1872; http://sacramentoturnverein.com/history/history3.asp

 

[mtholen]

Of all the buckles people post on here, this is one of the cooler ones

 

[cdsieg]

I'm not saying it wasn't or could not have been made or worn during the war. It may well have been. I'm simply saying that it is not specifically a military item. You buckle is rare and very cool but it is a buckle for a civilian society, not made for a military unit.

I have plenty of relics found on known CW sites. The ones that are civilian in nature I don't consider "war" items even though they were probably used or worn by soldiers during the war.

DCMatt

Thank you for taking the time to clarify. I know you know a lot about Civil War items. Thanks again.

 

[cdsieg]

Well, for what it's worth, this site states that this motto wasn't adopted until 1880 (11th paragraph);
The Turners - GermanMarylanders
I don't know if maybe some groups used it before then or if other websites are incorrect about the dates that these buckles were made?
Whatever turns out to be the case it's a very nice buckle with cool history behind it.

Updated; this group apparently used it in 1872; Sacramento Turn Verein Sacramento German American Club Soccer Library Harmonie Handball Raquetball Hall Rental

Very good information, thank you for that. I just always wonder when I see other postings of similar things that I have found, where some of these people get there information.
Thanks for helping me learn more about it.

 

[cdsieg]

Of all the buckles people post on here, this is one of the cooler ones

Thanks, I found it in a trash pit that I was digging all summer, along with 3 pocket watches and all sorts of cool stuff.