black glass/amber fruit jar

[creeper71]

I'm going to post this here, I don't own this jar yet..it is going up for auction this coming week... can't find it in the redbook #9.. Hoping someone here can tell me the exact color, if it's a repro an value.. so I know how to bid for it..thanks for all the help!!! btw I only have one pic of the jar... can't get any more sorry....

 

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[72cheyenne]

Creeper thanks for the PM.

I would be wary of that particular jar. It is one of the most repro'ed jars there is. Although some of the original repros as well as more modern ones do hold some value. I don't have the Redbook #10 in front of me, so I will have to look tomorrow. The RB#10 does have a new section on the known repros and values for them. My hunch is that if you didn't find it listed in the RB#9 that it will most likely be in the repro section of RB#10. Also, do you know what size it is. I can't tell for sure if it is a quart or the scaled down midget pint. It looks to have a standard zinc lid, but its hard to tell from the photo.

This is all speculation. We really need some more shots of the jar to tell for sure. A shot of the base and a shot of the lip will tell a whole bunch.

I will get you my most educated guess either later tonight or tomorrow after I look at the book. However it turns out, I would treat it as if I was bidding on a repro, and if it turns out to be authentic and you win the bid, then bonus for you.

I will get back to you ASAP.

 

[creeper71]

Creeper thanks for the PM.

I would be wary of that particular jar. It is one of the most repro'ed jars there is. Although some of the original repros as well as more modern ones do hold some value. I don't have the Redbook #10 in front of me, so I will have to look tomorrow. The RB#10 does have a new section on the known repros and values for them. My hunch is that if you didn't find it listed in the RB#9 that it will most likely be in the repro section of RB#10. Also, do you know what size it is. I can't tell for sure if it is a quart or the scaled down midget pint. It looks to have a standard zinc lid, but its hard to tell from the photo.

This is all speculation. We really need some more shots of the jar to tell for sure. A shot of the base and a shot of the lip will tell a whole bunch.

I will get you my most educated guess either later tonight or tomorrow after I look at the book. However it turns out, I would treat it as if I was bidding on a repro, and if it turns out to be authentic and you win the bid, then bonus for you.

I will get back to you ASAP.

I don't know anymore then what you see... preview isn't til the day of auction.. I WOULD assume if the lip is grounded it would be authentic.. is it a very dark amber? I have trouble using the redbook sometimes it gets confusing...lol thanks for the Help!!

 

[72cheyenne]

I don't know anymore then what you see... preview isn't til the day of auction.. I WOULD assume if the lip is grounded it would be authentic.. is it a very dark amber? I have trouble using the redbook sometimes it gets confusing...lol thanks for the Help!!

Actually, I thinks some of the original repros had ground lips also. I'm just shooting from the hip here without the book though. I will get back to you on this later this evening. I'll send you a PM and post here so we all can learn.

 

[creeper71]

I don't know anymore then what you see... preview isn't til the day of auction.. I WOULD assume if the lip is grounded it would be authentic.. is it a very dark amber? I have trouble using the redbook sometimes it gets confusing...lol thanks for the Help!!

Actually, I thinks some of the original repros had ground lips also. I'm just shooting from the hip here without the book though. I will get back to you on this later this evening. I'll send you a PM and post here so we all can learn.

sounds good thank you!!!

 

[72cheyenne]

Ok, I have looked at the RB#10.

This is nothing definitive, especially with only having one picture.


It COULD be RB#1787. I believe the color is what they call Black Olive. If it is a quart or half gallon size it was made by Hemingray Glass Co. and will have fancy style mold numbers on the bottom. It will have a ground lip. If this is the real deal it is a very, very, very, very rare and desirable jar.........and is worth many thousands of dollars!

But in saying that, it is one of the most susceptible jars to have repro'ed. If it has a purple hue to the black color, it most likely is a repro. There are many variations to the repros. Values range from $10 up to $200.

All in all, it is impossible to call the shot from just looking at this one picture. I was really hoping there would be some distinguishing feature that stood out that I could give you a decent idea on what you could possibly have, but no such luck. There are so many possibilities.

My hunch tells me this is a repro. It is like one of the most rare of CW buckles showing up at an estate sale. It just seems to good to be true. But hey, anything is possible.

 

[gleaner1]

I'm gonna go way out on a limb here. This one looks good to me.

 

[creeper71]

I'm gonna go way out on a limb here. This one looks good to me.

Could you please give me the reasons why this looks good to you?? not trying to argue just trying to figure out if this is a good jar or a junk jar

 

[creeper71]

I tried to get more pics from the auction house..this is the reply I got back...

Thanks for your inquiry. Sorry to say everything is packed up. We will be unpacking Friday. I won't have time to take any pictures on Friday. Out of memory, it is a quart. It is amethyst. As far as I know it is in good condition. Thanks again.

So I am going to assume it is a Clear jar an sun made amethyst... anyone want to agree or disagree? I'm still learning so I could be wrong...

 

[72cheyenne]

I tried to get more pics from the auction house..this is the reply I got back...

Thanks for your inquiry. Sorry to say everything is packed up. We will be unpacking Friday. I won't have time to take any pictures on Friday. Out of memory, it is a quart. It is amethyst. As far as I know it is in good condition. Thanks again.

So I am going to assume it is a Clear jar an sun made amethyst... anyone want to agree or disagree? I'm still learning so I could be wrong...

If they are saying it is amethyst (purple), I would have to say that I am about 99% sure it is a repro. The only color in the original jars that dark is "Black Amber", and when held to a backlight you see an amber hue. The repros are listed in the color "Black Purple" which when held to a backlight you would see purple. I have never seen a "Sun Colored Amethyst" jar get that dark unless it was subjected to radiation (which is becoming a common and unethical practice to do with bottles and insulators).

Creeper, I still plan on sending you some pics, I just haven't got around to it yet.

 

[creeper71]

I tried to get more pics from the auction house..this is the reply I got back...

Thanks for your inquiry. Sorry to say everything is packed up. We will be unpacking Friday. I won't have time to take any pictures on Friday. Out of memory, it is a quart. It is amethyst. As far as I know it is in good condition. Thanks again.

So I am going to assume it is a Clear jar an sun made amethyst... anyone want to agree or disagree? I'm still learning so I could be wrong...

If they are saying it is amethyst (purple), I would have to say that I am about 99% sure it is a repro. The only color in the original jars that dark is "Black Amber", and when held to a backlight you see an amber hue. The repros are listed in the color "Black Purple" which when held to a backlight you would see purple. I have never seen a "Sun Colored Amethyst" jar get that dark unless it was subjected to radiation (which is becoming a common and unethical practice to do with bottles and insulators).

Creeper, I still plan on sending you some pics, I just haven't got around to it yet.

thank you for all your help... I was at a bottle seminar last week an the speaker said to get a dark purple you was to take the clear jar an put it in a box wrapped in tin foil an put a black light over the box for 4 days or more... maybe this is what happened to this jar..but I'm sure it was clear at one time...

 

[gleaner1]

I thought it's real because the lettering looks genuine, and overall the piece does not look like a repro. Even good repro's look wrong. But I agree with cheyenne, if a deep-purple repro is listed, it is almost surely one of them. Plus, I think these are rare in clear, which is needed to force the purple color by irradiation. Also, it is very difficult to get a purple that dark by radiation. Now that I look at the pic again, it does look like deep-purple. I would say 97% chance repro. I still think it's cool and would buy it if the price was right, say 10 bucks or less.

 

[NCprivyDigger]

Okay so if this jar that started the post is in question of being a reproduction or the real deal then explain the lack of the "Maltese Cross" like on my jar and many other jars that I have seen. Mine was found in the crawlspace of a house built in 1823 that was being torn down by the city due to being a safety hazard to the neighborhood kids and homeless messing around in it. I have looked up my jar in several books at the local library and on-line and feel that mine is the real deal. Air bubbles, ground mouth, color....... You tell me.

 

[72cheyenne]

Okay so if this jar that started the post is in question of being a reproduction or the real deal then explain the lack of the "Maltese Cross" like on my jar and many other jars that I have seen. Mine was found in the crawlspace of a house built in 1823 that was being torn down by the city due to being a safety hazard to the neighborhood kids and homeless messing around in it. I have looked up my jar in several books at the local library and on-line and feel that mine is the real deal. Air bubbles, ground mouth, color....... You tell me.

NC, without a doubt your jar is the real deal. There are literally thosands of different variations of the "Mason's Patent 1858" jars. Some have the Hero (Maltese) cross, some have crescent moons, some have monogrammed initials, some just simply have a letter or number, and some like the original posters jar have just "Mason Patent Nov. 30th 1858". Yours has another abbreviated patent date and mold number there on the bottom. What is bringing up the question on creeper71's jar is the color. If it was an aqua or light blue jar I wouldn't even question its authenticity, but it's color is trying to mimic a jar that can sell for as much as $10,000!

NC, when I get to work today, I will look up your jar in the RB#10 and give you an idea on its value.

ADDED: NC, I looked up your jar. It is either RB#1939 or RB#1940. RB#1939 has small lettering (HFJCo) in the cross and RB#1940 does not. Thats the only difference. I assume yours is a quart. If it is a half-gallon, then add a few dollars to the quart figures. Quart-aqua $4-6, Quart-clear $10-15

 

[NCprivyDigger]

Okay so if this jar that started the post is in question of being a reproduction or the real deal then explain the lack of the "Maltese Cross" like on my jar and many other jars that I have seen. Mine was found in the crawlspace of a house built in 1823 that was being torn down by the city due to being a safety hazard to the neighborhood kids and homeless messing around in it. I have looked up my jar in several books at the local library and on-line and feel that mine is the real deal. Air bubbles, ground mouth, color....... You tell me.

NC, without a doubt your jar is the real deal. There are literally thosands of different variations of the "Mason's Patent 1858" jars. Some have the Hero (Maltese) cross, some have crescent moons, some have monogrammed initials, some just simply have a letter or number, and some like the original posters jar have just "Mason Patent Nov. 30th 1858". Yours has another abbreviated patent date and mold number there on the bottom. What is bringing up the question on creeper71's jar is the color. If it was an aqua or light blue jar I wouldn't even question its authenticity, but it's color is trying to mimic a jar that can sell for as much as $10,000!

NC, when I get to work today, I will look up your jar in the RB#10 and give you an idea on its value.

ADDED: NC, I looked up your jar. It is either RB#1939 or RB#1940. RB#1939 has small lettering (HFJCo) in the cross and RB#1940 does not. Thats the only difference. I assume yours is a quart. If it is a half-gallon, then add a few dollars to the quart figures. Quart-aqua $4-6, Quart-clear $10-15

Mine is a quart and must be the RB#1939.... it has very faint lettering in the cross. I have tried to take pictures but unable to obtain any that are clear enough to make out due to how close or far away I have tried to take the picture. And the lighting keeps causing glare or flashback. Sorry.

 

[creeper71]

Do you have Macro on your camera? it will be a flower icon.. it is made to take very clear pics of very small or very close pic.... what your describing as very faint lettering is what I believe might be what is called ghost lettering in the fruit jar circle... if there is some sort of "ghost lettering" it is to the utmost importance to get a photo of it as that maybe a a new variety an will greatly increase the value if new variety...

 

[NCprivyDigger]

Do you have Macro on your camera? it will be a flower icon.. it is made to take very clear pics of very small or very close pic.... what your describing as very faint lettering is what I believe might be what is called ghost lettering in the fruit jar circle... if there is some sort of "ghost lettering" it is to the utmost importance to get a photo of it as that maybe a a new variety an will greatly increase the value if new variety...

My camera does have "Macro"..... but it's a 6 year old camera. I have tried to take pictures and will try again later tonight when I get home. Maybe I can come up with better lighting or backlighting to obtain a picture or two of the faint (ghost) lettering. I can make out the letters "Co" and raised bumps that I would say are the other 3 letters. One has a air bubble in it distorting the view. But I try what I can to get some pictures.
Thank you.

 

[72cheyenne]

Do you have Macro on your camera? it will be a flower icon.. it is made to take very clear pics of very small or very close pic.... what your describing as very faint lettering is what I believe might be what is called ghost lettering in the fruit jar circle... if there is some sort of "ghost lettering" it is to the utmost importance to get a photo of it as that maybe a a new variety an will greatly increase the value if new variety...

My camera does have "Macro"..... but it's a 6 year old camera. I have tried to take pictures and will try again later tonight when I get home. Maybe I can come up with better lighting or backlighting to obtain a picture or two of the faint (ghost) lettering. I can make out the letters "Co" and raised bumps that I would say are the other 3 letters. One has a air bubble in it distorting the view. But I try what I can to get some pictures.
Thank you.

If you are seeing what looks like letters in the 4 arms of the cross, then it is RB#1939. Your jar was probably made in a mold that had been around a while. The smaller details of the mold tend to wear out.

 

[NCprivyDigger]

Do you have Macro on your camera? it will be a flower icon.. it is made to take very clear pics of very small or very close pic.... what your describing as very faint lettering is what I believe might be what is called ghost lettering in the fruit jar circle... if there is some sort of "ghost lettering" it is to the utmost importance to get a photo of it as that maybe a a new variety an will greatly increase the value if new variety...

My camera does have "Macro"..... but it's a 6 year old camera. I have tried to take pictures and will try again later tonight when I get home. Maybe I can come up with better lighting or backlighting to obtain a picture or two of the faint (ghost) lettering. I can make out the letters "Co" and raised bumps that I would say are the other 3 letters. One has a air bubble in it distorting the view. But I try what I can to get some pictures.
Thank you.

If you are seeing what looks like letters in the 4 arms of the cross, then it is RB#1939. Your jar was probably made in a mold that had been around a while. The smaller details of the mold tend to wear out.

I'll agree with a worn out mold. Along the seams there are serious signs of mold damage and wear. Then if you look at the bottom of the jar next to the letter "T" you will see another sign of a worn damaged mold. Either way I love this jar and glad to have found it to add to my retirement collection.
Bill