Date these photos

[Obscurist]

Doing a bit of family history, I found a biography for an individual with photos possibly misidentified.

These photos purport to be of William Cotton Francis, Sr. 1810-1894, but I wonder if they might be of his son W.C. Francis, Jr. 1844-1911.

Would you think this is a photo of a man born in 1810 or 1844?

The same man... again I ask, born 1810 or 1844?

Also for consideration, it is known that Jr. was a house carpenter.

Would you say this is a house built by a man born in 1810 or 1844?

The website seems abandoned and 4 of the 5 email address I located for the owner "bounced." Still waiting with crossed fingers for a reply from the fifth.

I might be assuming wrongly, but my guess is that someone passed these photos on to the site owner and identified them simply as William C. Francis... and that they were given the Sr. attribution by default without close consideration.

A boarding house built in the railroad depot district of Asheville, NC circa 1895 by Jr. is still standing and I hope I might eventually get permission to search the grounds, but for now I'm simply working on the history.

Here are the source pages for the photos and info on both Sr. and Jr.

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/4268/WILLIAMCFRANCIS.HTML

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/4268/WCFRANJR.HTML

 

[Lowbatts]

What type of photos do you have? Daguerreotype? Photo of an old photo?

From the old photos I have found, including tins, the clothing he has on looks just about right for the time period from 1840 to 1860. So figure his age within those guidelines. My photos are of of people from these parts though so local clothing customs do play into the estimate.

Someone with real knowledge of clothing might be able to look at the two pictures and make some distinctions for you, there are differences in the lapels of course, but I cannot discern what they represent.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

The second photo doesn't look like a photo - it looks like a hand-done portrait - that someone might have taken a picture of.

B

 

[Kentucky Kache]

The second photo doesn't look like a photo - it looks like a hand-done portrait - that someone might have taken a picture of.

B

That's what I was thinking. It don't look like a photo.

 

[Obscurist]

The second photo doesn't look like a photo - it looks like a hand-done portrait - that someone might have taken a picture of.

I have seen many photographs such as this one... some just lightly retouched by an artist, some, like this one, practically gone over by the artist.

I have a portrait of my grandfather as a baby, and another of his grandparents taken about the same time. These were very fancy and expensive for their day (1915) but from the same region (western NC) as the second "photo" here. These large portraits are in oval frames and even tinted, rosy cheeks on the baby, green background. There are obvious lines drawn in to bring out details, thus something of a combination photo/artist portrait.

I wonder when this style was in vogue? Guessing that the old man in the second image is perhaps 70? I wonder over the likely date of the second image. Is 1880 reasonable or is it more likely 1910, closer to the time when I know such artistic renditions were being done to portraits locally?

I have no idea about the first image, but I would think dageurrotype with no additional notes and I have not seen more than what you see here, not the original. This man hardly looks older than his 30s and it is very unlikely that such photos were common locally before say 1855. If it is Jr., this photo would date from circa 1870s... does his clothing look like it could be so late?

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

If you check the detail in the 2nd photo - I think you will find it not "human characteristic-like". It really looks like a portrait. (probably pencil).

Check by the chin, the neck (a beard?) - not a photograph. Some old pencil (graphite) drawings are worth quite a bit.

B

 

[Lowbatts]

If you check the detail in the 2nd photo - I think you will find it not "human characteristic-like". It really looks like a portrait. (probably pencil).

Check by the chin, the neck (a beard?) - not a photograph. Some old pencil (graphite) drawings are worth quite a bit.

B

Quite right, it's a picture, not a photo.