For Cannon Ball Guy, Can you Id the attached photos

[john7664]

I obtained what may be a cannon ball from a WWII veteran. It was packed in a cardboard box and stored in a closet. I have no other information on the object,

The ball weighs 8. 2 lb approximately, it is about 4 inches in diameter, hollow, 1 inch approximately on the fuse hole?, no poloygon inside, I cannot find a seam, and no exterior markings.

I was told the "cannon ball guy" may be-able to ID.

I would appreciate any help in the identification of the object.

John

 

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[vpnavy]

I sent TheCannonballGuy a PM!

Dang - Just noticed this is your very first post - so, Welcome Aboard! Take a look at Sub-Forums: Florida for information (i.e., clubs, etc.) directly related to your state.

 

[john7664]

Thanks. I was referred to this site from Civil War talk. I was told the "cannon ball guy" was expert in ID of possible cannon ball. John

 

[flyadive]

John , CW will need precise measurements with a circumference tape or calipers and you will also need to have it weighed at you post office. (Preferred method )

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

John7664, welcome to T-Net and the What-Is-It forum. The guys over at CivilWarTalk know me as Peter C. (Pete) George, for co-authoring the book "Field Artillery Projectiles Of The American Civil War." Thanks for the good photos, and in particular, showing the shape of the ball's fuzehole and telling the hole's measurement. It appears to be a 12-Pounder (4.62") caliber explosive Common-Shell cannonball. ("Common-Shell" meant a "plain" shell, no antipersonnel balls inside it, just gunpowder.) A 12-Pdr. Common-Shell was specified in the Ordnance Manual of 1861 to weigh about 8.3 pounds, which is just slightly off from the weight you reported. I think if you use a Pi Tape (a.k.a. diameter-tape) you will find the ball's actual diameter to be either about 4.50-to-4.52-inches (civil war era) or about 4.45-inches (Revolutionary War era.) The wooden-plug type of fuzehole (no threading for screwing in a metal fuze) dated from the Colonial Era through the civil war... so you'll have to get the ball's exact diameter measurement to tell which time period it is from.

Up until the late-1840s, all cannonballs had the wood-fuzeplug type fuzehole. During the civil war, the yankees had some wooden-fuzed 12-pounder cannon shells until Summer 1862, but then shifted to metal fuzeplugs. The Confederates used the wooden-fuzeplug type all the way through the end of the civil war. So, if your ball is the civil war era size (4.50-4.52"-diameter) it is far more likely to be a Confederate-made one than a yankee one.

You didn't ask, but because many people want to know... a 12-Pounder caliber Common-Shell with wood-fuzeplug type fuzehole, and without a pentagonal/rhombohedral powder-cavity, in the same condition yours is in (having no rust-encrustation, and very little rust-pitting) sells for about $175-$200 at civil war relic shows. Please note that I said "sells for"... you'll see higher pricetags but I'm talking about what they usually wind up bringing after the haggling is done.

 

[callicles]

Good job!! I'm so glad you got a hold of Cannon Ball Guy!! I hope you follow up with his advice. I'd love to know if what you have is ACW or Revelutionary!! Congrats!!

 

[john7664]

John7664, welcome to T-Net and the What-Is-It forum. The guys over at CivilWarTalk know me as Peter C. (Pete) George, for co-authoring the book "Field Artillery Projectiles Of The American Civil War." Thanks for the good photos, and in particular, showing the shape of the ball's fuzehole and telling the hole's measurement. It appears to be a 12-Pounder (4.62") caliber explosive Common-Shell cannonball. ("Common-Shell" meant a "plain" shell, no antipersonnel balls inside it, just gunpowder.) A 12-Pdr. Common-Shell was specified in the Ordnance Manual of 1861 to weigh about 8.3 pounds, which is just slightly off from the weight you reported. I think if you use a Pi Tape (a.k.a. diameter-tape) you will find the ball's actual diameter to be either about 4.50-to-4.52-inches (civil war era) or about 4.45-inches (Revolutionary War era.) The wooden-plug type of fuzehole (no threading for screwing in a metal fuze) dated from the Colonial Era through the civil war... so you'll have to get the ball's exact diameter measurement to tell which time period it is from.

Up until the late-1840s, all cannonballs had the wood-fuzeplug type fuzehole. During the civil war, the yankees had some wooden-fuzed 12-pounder cannon shells until Summer 1862, but then shifted to metal fuzeplugs. The Confederates used the wooden-fuzeplug type all the way through the end of the civil war. So, if your ball is the civil war era size (4.50-4.52"-diameter) it is far more likely to be a Confederate-made one than a yankee one.

You didn't ask, but because many people want to know... a 12-Pounder caliber Common-Shell with wood-fuzeplug type fuzehole, and without a pentagonal/rhombohedral powder-cavity, in the same condition yours is in (having no rust-encrustation, and very little rust-pitting) sells for about $175-$200 at civil war relic shows. Please note that I said "sells for"... you'll see higher pricetags but I'm talking about what they usually wind up bringing after the haggling is done.

Pete,

Thank you for the quick response. You a wealth of knowledge. I will take your advice and measure with Pi tape and take it to the post office for measurement. I will provide with the details once I obtain the information. I appreciate the information on value. I enjoy civil war history and intend on purchasing a case to display. I am going to get your book to go with the cannon ball.

John


Great quote and truly needed now
"Let The Christ be a light to you in dark places, when all other lights go out.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Unfortunately, the book is permanently out-of-print, due to the death of my co-author. There are two editions of the book... the 1980 edition and the 1993 edition... the latter, called the Revised & Supplemented 1993 Edition, is vastly expanded over the original version. Please do not pay "big bucks" for the obsolete 1980 edition. Make sure the book says "Revised & Supplemented 1993 Edition" on its cover.

 

[john7664]

Hi Pete,

I am apologize for not getting back sooner. I had the cannonball weighed at the local post office 8 lbs 4 oz. I bought Pi tape and I believe I measured correctly 4.52 (please let me know the correct way to measure the diameter with the PI tape). I was able to obtain your book from Abe Bookstore, Field Artillery Projectiles of The American Civil War, Revised and Supplemented 1993 Edition. The last copy they had. Do you autograph?
I hope this email finds you well and thank you for your help and expert knowledge.

John

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

About how to use a Pi Tape correctly for measuring:
I co-wrote an educational article on how to determine with certainty whether or not a metal ball is a cannonball... and it includes photos, and includes detailed instructions (along with a photo) for correctly using a Pi Tape (a.k.a. "Diameter Tape") to measure the ball's diameter very precisely. To view the article for free on the internet, go here:
SolidShotEssentialsMod

The diameter measurement you got (4.52-inches) with your Pi Tape, AND the precise weight of the ball (8 pounds 4 ounces) prove it is definitely a civil war era "12-Pounder caliber" explosive cannonball.
www.civilwarartillery.com/shottables.htm

I'd be happy to autograph the book for you, if we can figure out a way to meet at a Virginia civil war relic show sometime, or if you (or a friend of yours) will be traveling through the Richmond Virginia area. Send me a TreasreNet Private Message and I'll give you my contact information. Because the book is hard to find, and expensive, I worry about trying to send it by mail. The Post Office managed to lose one that somebody mailed me for autographing, and I don't want to risk that happening again.

 

[BosnMate]

Question. During the revolution there were supposedly hand grenades. Were those just fused cannon balls, or a separate item. I ask this because I read that the fight that had taken place when John Paul Jones was commanding the USS Bonhomme Richard, and he engaged the British ship HMS Serapis on Sept. 23rd, 1779. (237th anniversary of the battle is coming right up) was supposedly won by a US Marine using a hand grenade. The ships were tied together, and the Richard was so gutted that cannon shot from the Serapis was passing through the Richard without hitting anything. The Marines were manning the fighting tips, shooting muskets down at the main deck of the Serapis, and a US Marine crawled out on a yard arm of the Richard and dropped a lighted hand grenade down on the Serapis. The Grenade went through an open hatch, into a powder magazine and the explosion broke off the main mast on the Serapis. The Captain of the Serapis then struck his colors, and every one went aboard the Sepapis, and the Richard was cut loose. The water couldn't be pumped out fast enough, and the next day the Richard sunk. Ever sense reading that I've wondered if they did in fact have separate hand grenades, or did they just use fused cannon balls? The book I read about the engagement was written by the US Marine Corps, so of course there is no predigest involved.

 

[huntsman53]

Grenade | National Museum of American History

 

[john7664]

Pete,

Thank you for your response. I plan on displaying the cannonball. I was reading your book and trying to match up a photo (pg. 30) to include a photo (pg. 442) of the type of fuse. It would be a pleasure to meet you at a Virginia Civil War Relic Show. It would give me an excuse to visit some of my favorite battlefields especially Chancellorsville. Is there a site for dates and times.

John

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

BosnMate asked:
"Ever since reading that I've wondered if they did in fact have separate hand grenades, or did they just use fused cannon balls?"

From the Colonial era onward, the Navies of various nations had explosive balls specifically made to be used (only) as grenades. They were called a "Naval Boarding Grenade." Their fuze and body were a bit different, and in particular, to enable throwing one further they were manufactured lighter than a cannonball of the same size.

Until the civil war got underway, the Army just tended to use whatever was handy (meaning, using cannonballs as grenades). During the civil war, various inventors on both sides came up with both simple and ingenious designs for Army-usage grenades. Having said that... I should also mention, the US civil war Ketchum Grenade, made famous at the siege of Port Hudson Louisiana, was manufactured as a Naval Boarding Grenade, which some not-so-smart yankee thought would work in the siege trenches just as well as it did when dropped from a sailing ship's mast-tops onto an enemy ship's deck, directly below. Turned out they performed poorly wheh thrown uphill over a fort's wall, landing incorrectly for detonation. When the Confederates figured out what they were, and returned them down onto the yankees below the fort's walls, the fuze worked fairly well.

 

[john7664]

Correct ref in your book for my cannonball?

Pete,

Thank you for your response. I plan on displaying the cannonball. I was reading your book and trying to match up a photo (pg. 30) to include a photo (pg. 442) of the type of fuse. It would be a pleasure to meet you at a Virginia Civil War Relic Show. It would give me an excuse to visit some of my favorite battlefields especially Chancellorsville. Is there a site for dates and times.

I am very interested how the wood/paper fuses worked?

John

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

John asked:
"Is there a site for dates and times" of civil war relic shows?

Go to belletandshell.com and look on the left side the homepage for the category marked "Upcoming Shows."

That site also has a pretty good forum for discussion of civil war projectiles (bullets and artillery shells). It's at the top of the list of Contents on the left side of the homepage.

 

[john7664]

Thanks Pete.

 

[callicles]

Hey Pete,

I know you do not respond to the "thanks" that your fans give to you on this site per your explanation on another thread. So, I'm not expecting any reply here to this "thanks." I just want to say how incredibly important you are, not only to this site, but to History! I capitalized "history" on purpose!