Gold? Elgin pocket watch, weird green crystalline conglomerate, and a broken point

[Kantuckkeean]

Howdy Y'all,

I went to a creek with one of my sons today (the other one didn't want to go ). I was mainly looking for wildlife and arrowheads in the creek rocks. Much to my surprise, I spotted a pocket watch. I thought it was interesting but didn't really give it much thought. I was just having fun being out with my son.


I got it home and ran a little water over it and rubbed the face so that I could read it. It says "Elgin Natl. Watch Co." on the back are some birds in flight. I think that they're swifts or swallows. The side has some nice engraving as well. I can't get it open. I'm sure that it has endured several, perhaps dozens, of floods and has been tumbled over many creek rocks. The face of it is chipped and kind of looks like porcelain.


Can anyone tell me anything about it? I'm going to start doing some research after I submit this post. What would you do if you'd found it? Pry it open with a screwdriver? Is it gold? If so, is it worth anything more than scrap?

I also found this really interesting green crystalline conglomerate rock.


I've never seen anything quite like it. The green crystals are smooth and shine, kind of like melted glass. I'm not huge on geology, so any assistance here would be appreciated. It was found in south-central Indiana, but the glaciers deposited a bunch of weird stuff here. I don't think that it's kryptonite, because I'm feeling pretty good, although that could be the pizza I had for dinner. I did find one broken point too.

Anyways, thanks for looking.

Kindest regards,
Kantuck

 

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[Johncoho]

It looks like an 18 size Elgin. The case back is hinged, so the back of the case would normally be opened with a watch case opener. A pocket knife will open the case back up. There should be a lip on the back that you can open it with. I see some green around the edge of the back and would assume it is probably gold filled. If you can open the back it would be marked on the inside of the back cover what the case is. 20 year, 25 year, which would let you know it is gold filled. If it is Karat gold it would be marked as such, 10K, 14K, etc.

 

[Javadroid]

Very nice write-up and pics and an interesting find! Congrats to you!

 

[DetectingGodlikeOnOlympus]

There is definitely verdigris showing, but it is all around seams where the internal workings have corroded and spilled out. The picture showing the detail of the designs on the case sure looks like gold to me.

I'm betting it is 14 karat. I'll eagerly await your update once you pry the case open.

 

[Kantuckkeean]

Update: Case pried open. Unfortunately, it's gold filled. Here's the photos. Gonna try to get a serial number so that I can find out what year it was made.



Kindest regards,
Kantuck

 

[RelicMaster777]

That watch looks pretty cool. I would put some drops of oil on the hinge. Then I would carefully use a box cutter blade to wedge in the seam at the top near the lip and slowly pry it to loosen it open. Might get a nice 14-18k surprise like I did with mine. Only I waited a year before I figured out how to do it without mangling it all up.

Opps to late ya open it...well done

 

[Kantuckkeean]

Update 2: I gently peeled the paper off and there’s a number on the case. However, you need the movement number to get the date of manufacture. From online images, my son and I found the area where the movement number is generally located. We gave it a vinegar rinse and gently scrubbed with a soft toothbrush. In doing so, we found a number on the rim. You can see it along the rim in the photo of the corroded workings. The number, if that’s the correct one, is 32665, which would mean that it was made in 1869. We’re not sure if that’s the correct serial number though. There’s still a bunch of corrosion where we thought the number should be.

Edit: Just checked Ebay. Saw an 1869 Elgin. The number on the rim is not the serial number that I need to date it. Figured as much. The paper didn’t seem to be that old. I was thinking maybe early 1900s, but that’s just a WAG. Will try again tomorrow...

Kindest regards,
Kantuck

 

[Kantuckkeean]

That watch looks pretty cool. I would put some drops of oil on the hinge. Then I would carefully use a box cutter blade to wedge in the seam at the top near the lip and slowly pry it to loosen it open. Might get a nice 14-18k surprise like I did with mine. Only I waited a year before I figured out how to do it without mangling it all up.

Opps to late ya open it...well done

We ran a knife along the seam, and pried it open. We didn’t mangle it too badly. Besides it already had some dings and mangling from the floods and banging against creek rocks. Thank you for the advice though. I’ll keep it in mind for future finds.

Kindest regards,
Kantuck

 

[Hawks88]

Nice eyeball find. Congrats

 

[kamelkamel01]

That watch looks pretty cool. I would put some drops of oil on the hinge. Then I would carefully use a box cutter blade to wedge in the seam at the top near the lip and slowly pry it to loosen it open. Might get a nice 14-18k surprise like I did with mine. Only I waited a year before I figured out how to do it without mangling it all up.

Opps to late ya open it...well done

got it home and ran a little water over it and rubbed the face so that I could read it. It says "Elgin Natl. Watch Co." on the back are some birds in flight. I think that they're swifts or swallows. The side has some nice engraving as well. I can't get it open. I'm sure that it has endured several, perhaps dozens, of floods and has been tumbled over many creek rocks. The face of it is chipped and kind of looks like porcelain.

 

[Johncoho]

Update: Case pried open. Unfortunately, it's gold filled. Here's the photos. Gonna try to get a serial number so that I can find out what year it was made.

View attachment 1720974View attachment 1720975

Kindest regards,
Kantuck

With the back open, your watch is a 16 size, model 3, open face, probably 7 to 15 jewel. With the serial number, I could give you an exact date of manufacture. The first model 3 was made in 1879. Not sure about the last year for that model. It is a nice find but in the condition it is in, it is not restorable. I'm surprised that the watch paper in the back of the case is in such good condition for what the movement looks like. The serial number would be on the largest plate you see on the movement.

 

[A2coins]

Great find eould be nice cleaned up and displayed

 

[Kantuckkeean]

With the back open, your watch is a 16 size, model 3, open face, probably 7 to 15 jewel. With the serial number, I could give you an exact date of manufacture. The first model 3 was made in 1879. Not sure about the last year for that model. It is a nice find but in the condition it is in, it is not restorable. I'm surprised that the watch paper in the back of the case is in such good condition for what the movement looks like. The serial number would be on the largest plate you see on the movement.

Thanks for the good information. I didn’t figure that much could be done with it when I saw the cracked porcelain face. The innards looked about as I expected. I can now read the first two digits of the serial number... No. 42... I doubt that I’ll get the rest. There’s a big chunk of corroded schmag over the rest. Do you know of a good solvent for removing corroded schmag?

Kindest regards,
Kantuck

 

[Madmox]

Electrolysis would probably clean that right up. Assuming it’s iron corrosion

 

[Kantuckkeean]

Electrolysis would probably clean that right up. Assuming it’s iron corrosion

I might give that a try sometime. One of my sons really likes nature, science, and math. The other one is really into machinery and tools. They’d probably find it interesting.

Kindest regards,
Kantuck

 

[Gene Mean]

The watch is a sweet old find, congrats! And the broken point is nice too.

 

[Professor of Engineering]

Great eye find, congrats!

 

[Johncoho]

Thanks for the good information. I didn’t figure that much could be done with it when I saw the cracked porcelain face. The innards looked about as I expected. I can now read the first two digits of the serial number... No. 42... I doubt that I’ll get the rest. There’s a big chunk of corroded schmag over the rest. Do you know of a good solvent for removing corroded schmag?

Kindest regards,
Kantuck

I have watch cleaning solution that it could be soaked in to get some of that off but I live in Pa and you live in Kentucky. In the condition it's in, you wouldn't hurt it if you used some brasso on a rag and cleaned the place where the serial number is. It would probably be a 5 or 6 digit number.

 

[Johncoho]

Thanks for the good information. I didn’t figure that much could be done with it when I saw the cracked porcelain face. The innards looked about as I expected. I can now read the first two digits of the serial number... No. 42... I doubt that I’ll get the rest. There’s a big chunk of corroded schmag over the rest. Do you know of a good solvent for removing corroded schmag?

Kindest regards,
Kantuck

Another trick to clean up the plate to see the number would be a pencil eraser. It may clean off the corrosion enough to tell the number.

 

[Kantuckkeean]

Another trick to clean up the plate to see the number would be a pencil eraser. It may clean off the corrosion enough to tell the number.

I guess Indiana schmag is a little tougher than Pennsylvania schmag. The schmag just laughed at the eraser, so I carefully sliced it off with a new razor blade then went to work with the eraser. Serial number is 4255197. Looks like you were right... 16s, 11 jewel, estimated date of manufacture 1891.

Thanks everyone!

Kindest regards,
Kantuck