Hafted prehistoic knife, Lecroy point

[TripleCreek]

I have always believed that the small lecroy points, that are found at early to mid archaic sites, were actually small knifes used to strip bark from smooth barked trees, like hickory and elm. I have produced this replication using only stone & bone tools. The handle is a made from the branch of a chestnut tree, and assembled completely green. The cuts for the handle were made with a bone saw, from the shell of a snapping turtle. The hafting notch was sawn about one quarter inch deep and one 1/4 inch wide. In the bottom of the notch, I used a stone drill, mounted on a wood shaft, and hand spun, to drill two holes that match the two prongs on the bottom of the lecroy point. This let the wider part of the bottom of the point to "bottom out" in the notch. After the point was inserted and sealed with a pine pitch adhesive, the handle was reinforced at the half with sinew. Pine pitch adhesive is made from White pine sap heated, until most of the water is evaporated. A small amount of hardwood "ash" is added to stabilize the sap, and and keep it from "crystallizing" This mixture acts just like "hot glue", it is liquid when hot, but cools to a strong adhesive. No "dry time" is needed with this glue. Everything (the wood handle, and stone point) is pre heated, when using this adhesive mixture, to make sure the bond preform well; otherwise the pitch will cool to quickly when touching the stone or wood, and be a weak bond. The Lancelot around the handle is "hand made" cordage, made from the fibers of the "dogbane" plant, a form of milkweed.

Thanks for looking,
3creeks

 

[pickaway]

Nice work

 

[creek astronaut]

thats pretty cool!how much time was involved in completing that knife?real nice work.

 

[TripleCreek]

Greg-Rocks,

Thanks for the nice comments.

Because I make reproduction arrows for hunting, I had all the tools and pitch pot out and ready to use, so it didn't take long. 15 minutes to knap the Lecroy point, 1/2 hour, to cut, "tool" and assemble the handle, 10 minutes to make the cordage lancelot. So about an hour total.

3creeks

 

[Tnmountains]

Have you harvested an animal with one of your points? Could you show me they type of point you would use? Also you would use a recurve I guess at around 50 lbs draw. I am thinking of cleaning a deer for a post with some flint flakes.
Thanks hope I am not bugging you : )

tnMtns

 

[MEinWV]

Very nice work there, 3C! A man after my own heart!

 

[Th3rty7]

I've read that the Lecroy type were early archaic dart points.

 

[Tnmountains]

I've read that the Lecroy type were early archaic dart points.

Early Archiac was still using the atlatl right 37. What did say Dallas or Misssissippian use with their short bow?

 

[uniface]

Beautiful !!!!!!!!!

LeCroys were assuredly knives.

Had one once showing pronounced silica phytogloss on one edge from cutting grass-like plants.

 

[Th3rty7]

I've read that the Lecroy type were early archaic dart points.

Early Archiac was still using the atlatl right 37. What did say Dallas or Misssissippian use with their short bow?

That's right Tn, your late woodland and mississippian triangles were probably the best examples of true arrowheads. Also falsely named "bird points" as you're aware of were actually used to bring down large game and more importantly other humans. I call them war points, " bird points" just doesn't do them justice.

 

[Th3rty7]

http://www.museum.state.il.us/ismde.../gallery.html?RolllD=group1&frameID=011lecroy

 

[Tnmountains]

I saw a skull once had an Adena buried in it. The person lived and the skull grew around the point and stayed in his head until death. I am sure it was in knife form. I kill a lot of deer and a guntersville or maybe a hamilton might do the trick. I was thinking of harvesting one this year with a stone point. Something smaller than a zwikey due to the weight.
Thought the knappers may have dealt with this. I can crack open a frame of triangulars if need be.
Thanks all.
TnMountains

 

[Th3rty7]

I saw a skull once had an Adena buried in it. The person lived and the skull grew around the point and stayed in his head until death. I am sure it was in knife form. I kill a lot of deer and a guntersville or maybe a hamilton might do the trick. I was thinking of harvesting one this year with a stone point. Something smaller than a zwikey due to the weight.
Thought the knappers may have dealt with this. I can crack open a frame of triangulars if need be.
Thanks all.
TnMountains

Cool, I've thought about doing just that before. I taught myself to knapp a few years back, and if lost in the wilderness without gear, I feel pretty confident that I could pull off a bow and arrow worthy of taking a deer. I've experimented with point designs that would penetrate deep but also have worked on specialized points with protruding sides/ ears that would do more damage to the vitals. The best one I made and flew true was sort of dalton esque. All my modern triangulars seemed to be too light and the arrow didnt fly well. Be glad to work on this with you, even knapp some points for you. I never really perfected it, but did learn alot from trial and error. If it's do or die time in the woods and I'm without rifle or bow, I'm making traps for smaller game.

 

[Tnmountains]

I saw a skull once had an Adena buried in it. The person lived and the skull grew around the point and stayed in his head until death. I am sure it was in knife form. I kill a lot of deer and a guntersville or maybe a hamilton might do the trick. I was thinking of harvesting one this year with a stone point. Something smaller than a zwikey due to the weight.
Thought the knappers may have dealt with this. I can crack open a frame of triangulars if need be.
Thanks all.
TnMountains

Yeah lets do it.
I want to still use a carbon arrow so i can shoot it out of a compound to get a pass thru. I do not want to be wounding any animals and tracking till the cows come home.This might be difficult with carbon. Lets start another thread so we dont hi jack his?
Cool, I've thought about doing just that before. I taught myself to knapp a few years back, and if lost in the wilderness without gear, I feel pretty confident that I could pull off a bow and arrow worthy of taking a deer. I've experimented with point designs that would penetrate deep but also have worked on specialized points with protruding sides/ ears that would do more damage to the vitals. The best one I made and flew true was sort of dalton esque. All my modern triangulars seemed to be too light and the arrow didnt fly well. Be glad to work on this with you, even knapp some points for you. I never really perfected it, but did learn alot from trial and error. If it's do or die time in the woods and I'm without rifle or bow, I'm making traps for smaller game.

 

[MEinWV]

The first weapons I would make would be throwing sticks and clubs, and a spear, for it's versatility. You can also take deer with it using a thrusting method as opposed to throwing it. Then I could start on other weapons.

I'm getting all excited, let's get started! 8)

Good luck!

 

[Th3rty7]

The first weapons I would make would be throwing sticks and clubs, and a spear, for it's versatility. You can also take deer with it using a thrusting method as opposed to throwing it. Then I could start on other weapons.

I'm getting all excited, let's get started! 8)

Good luck!

Good point ME, a spear is a versatile tool, lots of uses. What part of Wv are you? I hunt in Greenbrier and Monroe county, got some family over there. I think carbon fiber and and a compound would work, the trick would be knapping a point that's well matched in weight, balance, and aerodynamics, and being able to produce many similar points to practice with. Then hafting that sucker to modern technology could be difficult. Sounds like a good challenge to me.

 

[MEinWV]

I hunt the northwest corner, Tyler and Wetzel Co.'s.

IMHO, I don't think that you could marry the primitive pieces with the modern ones, unless you could make a stone point that is the same weight as a Zwickey head, for instance. If you could make it thin enough, the next concern would be the strength of the head in actual use. The modern equipment requires lighter weight arrows and heads in order to achieve higher speeds for flatter trajectory. The primitive combination of heavy arrows shot from lighter draw weight bows achieved the penetration that was needed to "bring home the bacon". If it became necessary for me to go primitive, I will not have any problem getting close to the game, so my equipment can be low tech, yet sturdy. The modern equipment will only last as long as one has the parts and know-how to service it. Of course, I would continue to use my modern weapons as long as possible, but I think it is important to acquire and use the knowledge of the ancient ones on a regular basis. I like to call it "back to the future"! Mankind has gotten so far removed from their original roots. It will be most apparent in the more technologically advanced areas of the world.

I am reminded of the T shirt showing the Native American on horseback with a compound bow, with the caption "what if"?
I'll tell you what if! I laugh everytime I think about that one! They would have succumbed to the white man much sooner than they did!

Well, I digress!

Good luck!

 

[silvercop]