I have this old rifle.........

d2

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It is a two band .58 caliber made by Colt in 1863. I have replaced the ramrod with a reproduction as I have the nipple. I do have a wrench that was issued with these rifles that is an original but didn't come with the rifle. I shot it yesterday and it's a hoot to shoot and I will hunt with it in a few weeks when we have our black powder hunt. I am curious as to what it's worth and haven't been able to find anything except on the 3 band models. If anyone has any info I would appreciate it. Thanks...d2 004.webp
 
Don't know what it's worth but it's really cool. Are you going to hunt with Patched round ball? I would keep my powder charge to a minimum just in case. Good luck hunting

sent from my computer by frantically poking at the keyboard with a single finger
 
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Nice gun D2. Can't give you any info but it's cool. I have a reproduction 50cal Hawkins that I have taken several deer with. They are a blast to hunt with. Mine has a lot of sentimental value because my dad built it from a Thompson center kit when I was 15 and gave it to me for Xmas. Someone should be able to give you a value.

HH RN
 
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I am no expert by any stretch, but I suggest you do your homework on this rifle. 1000's of surplus 3 band rifles were shortened for civilian use after the Civil War. If yours is one of them it takes away most of the collector value. Still lots of fun to shoot, though!

Good luck.

DCMatt
 
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Does the gun have a serial number by chance?
 
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Colt Special Contract Musket Model of 1861, It's based on the Enfield Musket. It actually should be a three band musket, but your center band is missing.

Value.... Hard to say from that pic, we'd need a good shot of the lock, and the finish on the metal. Prices are all over, from a couple hundred in rough shape to a couple thousand in like new condition with the metal still in the white....

You may already know this, but some people don't.... Those old rifles cannot be fired with modern Pyrodex, they are made for real black powder only. Loading anything other than black powder in them you can destroy the gun at best, and seriously injure yourself at worst.... Even so, we're talking about a gun that is 153 years old. I would want to run a bore scope down that barrel and look for any pitting or active corrosion. My advice to people is always this.... If you have an old gun like this, and you want to shoot it, don't.... If you're not well versed in firearms take it to a good gunsmith and have it thoroughly checked out for safety first.

If you do shoot it I would definitely suggest using a lighter load, I just wouldn't want to chance having it damaged if it were mine....
 
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Thanks for the info guys. There was no place for a center band on this one and while looking for a sling last night I came across an article about some being shortened but if that was the case the rifling would be almost to the end of the barrel I think and not like it is with it being smooth for the first few inches before the rifling starts. I found out that the US load was for 65 grains of black powder and I started out using 40 then moved up to 55. I also bought a mold so I could pour my own bullets. I don't intend to shoot it much but will take it to the deer stand a few times. I checked it out and had another gunsmith check it out also and we decided it is safe to shoot. I have had it for 3 years and just this summer got all the silver paint off of it and the nipple replaced, it was flat and I liked to have never got that joker out. Thanks again for any info and the info y'all have provided...d2
 
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Definitely had three bands to begin with. Also the rifling should go all the way to the end of the barrel, if it doesn't it is worn from firing, cleaning and ramrod wear. With the rifling so worn any kind of accuracy won't be possible. I have a model 1861 Springfield that I shoot about once a year, kind of keeping the history alive.
 
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Thanks for the extra info, gents. I got a lot to learn about this thing...d2
 
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Very cool ! Like most of the others said though, I wouldn't shoot it other than maybe just once with a light powder charge and no ball just to see it go bang. I've got a Civil War vintage 1858 Enfield myself and while it's very tempting, I have decided it's not worth the risk of blowing it up.
 

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I recently sold a Bridesburg Contract model 1861 Springfield Rifle for $1,000. That was my asking price, I was prepared to come down some on the price, but he bought the gun without any haggle. It was in shootable shape and had wonderful patina. Of course it's not the same type of gun you have, but that might give you some indication of the value.
 
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Like I said I have a lot to learn about this one but there is a sling swivel on the forward barrel band and they are both held on by a metal screw going from one side of the band to the other. Also the stock is inleted where both bands are located. Mine is shorter than y'alls are, rifle too, and I swear this one was made this way. Decent rifling about 3-4 inches from the muzzle on down. I thought that all or some were made with no rifling in the first bit to enhance the loading of it. Maybe my pictures were not good enough. If y'all think more and better pictures would help with the ID I would be happy to take some more this evening. Is there a website that can help me? Thanks for the help...d2
 
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Like I said I have a lot to learn about this one but there is a sling swivel on the forward barrel band and they are both held on by a metal screw going from one side of the band to the other. Also the stock is inleted where both bands are located. Mine is shorter than y'alls are, rifle too, and I swear this one was made this way. Decent rifling about 3-4 inches from the muzzle on down. I thought that all or some were made with no rifling in the first bit to enhance the loading of it. Maybe my pictures were not good enough. If y'all think more and better pictures would help with the ID I would be happy to take some more this evening. Is there a website that can help me? Thanks for the help...d2

Is the swivel at the muzzle end a complete loop or is does it have a gap in it? If there's a gap, it's what's called a "stacking swivel" and wasn't intended for a sling, if you think about it, having a sling attached at the muzzle of such a long gun would have the butt plate nearly scraping the ground and would be really awkward to walk or march with. Stacking swivels were used to hook three rifles together in camp and keep them neat and orderly. This pic shows 4 guns stacked, but the extra one is just leaned up to the stacked three, you'll see stacks with as many as six or more...

stack-63type2.webp

Edit.... I looked at a lot of pics of complete original 1861 Colt muskets, and none of them have the sling swivel (or a stacking swivel) on the muzzle end band, so if it is a sling swivel, someone just put it in the wrong place at some time in the past. possibly they either stripped the threads on the second band or they just lost it.....
 
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All of the rifle muskets had rifling all the way to the muzzle. What is the barrel length on your rifle? The Colts were only made in one length, the same as the regular Springfield rifle musket. If it is shorter it has been cut down.
 
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I left it in the truck last night and when I get back from squirrel hunting I will take pictures and measurements for y'all. Thanks again for all the help...d2
 
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Here's a picture or two. The front band has a sling swivel and not a stacking swivel if it doesn't show in the picture very good. The barrel is 36 inches long from the muzzle to just behind the nipple. Thanks again...d2024.webp028.webp011.webp
 
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Another picture or two...d2008.webp015.webp
 
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