Is this a pontil mark?

[Goldenplug]

This company is still in business today!
if so what type of pontil mark?this was from a town dump.

 

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[bottlehunterofcoscob]

Bottles from France seem to have some kind of refired pontil of some sort kinda late. I had a perfume bottle with something like that too.

 

[Goldenplug]

Hmm? A refired pontil? Would that mean it was taken off the pontil rod and the reheated to smooth it out?

 

[bottlehunterofcoscob]

Hmm? A refired pontil? Would that mean it was taken off the pontil rod and the reheated to smooth it out?

I believe so but don't quote me on that, I'm far from an expert.

 

[Goldenplug]

Well either way, thanks for the input. Its a pretty cool bottle. I like the big wonky top. I wonder what exactly was in there. Im sure it was some type of cosmetic type bottle but i doubt it was perfume due to the enormous opening on the top.

 

[bottlehunterofcoscob]

Well either way, thanks for the input. Its a pretty cool bottle. I like the big wonky top. I wonder what exactly was in there. Im sure it was some type of cosmetic type bottle but i doubt it was perfume due to the enormous opening on the top.

I think you're right. And yeah, the Europeans were farther behind in the bottle making technology which always creates some curious features for the time period. The round bottom crown tops I've been finding recently are imported and they have applied crown tops, which the Americans always tooled to the best of my knowledge.

 

[sunrunner]

cosmetic containers such as bottles were hand made even in this county up into the 1920s .

 

[Goldenplug]

cosmetic containers such as bottles were hand made even in this county up into the 1920s .

Interesting. I've never heard of that. Why would cosmetics be treated differently than any other product? Are you saying that American glassworks companies were using Owens Bottling Machines for bottles of other kinds but still making cosmetics bottles by hand into the 1920s?

 

[Harry Pristis]

Actually, I think the Europeans were 20-30 years advanced over the U.S. bottle-makers right up to the gradual adoption here of the Owens machine during the first two decades of the 20th Century. The French in particular. But, that's a discussion for another thread.

The wide-mouth bottle seems to have a "glass pontil scar." That is, a bit of glass was used as "stickum" on the end of an iron pontil rod. French bottles from the second half of the 19th Century more typically have "disc pontil scars."

The disc pontil is usually a very neat ring, with little or no glass fragments adhering. Some French glassmakers stuck with the disc pontil for decades after American glassmakers switched to the snap-case or sabot (French for "shoe"). I don't know the relative efficiency of the two methods of holding the nascent bottle.

disc pontil scar on a French jar
​

What is unlikely is that any pontil scar on a utility bottle is refired. Some art glass pontil scars may have been refired (or, more likely, ground down on a wheel). Production efficiency was the objective, and refiring would involve another step in production.

 

[Goldenplug]

Harry, love the info. It seems that you've really done your homework! Thank you. So this is possibly pre-1850?

 

[sunrunner]

in Europe glass blowers unions were strong ,and they held on to there jobs a little longer then Americans did , and yes some glass houses still made perfume and some fancy cosmetic jars in the 1920s . Oh my the way some perfume company's in France sill make some bottles by hand.

 

[Harry Pristis]

Harry, love the info. It seems that you've really done your homework! Thank you. So this is possibly pre-1850?

Anything is possible, but as I look at your bottle again, it could easily be a disc pontil scar with a fragment of glass on one side of the ring. Is it?

A bit of googling may tell you the dates of the perfumery operation in Paris. If I had to guess, I'd say the age of the bottle is later than 1850, but earlier than 1890.

 

[Goldenplug]

The company began in 1810. I couldn't find the same bottle on google.