KGC Silver

[BoggyBottomJay]

Ok so we are always reading about KGC gold but what about KGC silver? I mean back during the silver war people didnt have tons of gold laying around but there was lots of silver. Every thing from candle holders to well, silverware. Look at Lawrence Kansas. That was a town that endured a four-hour session of pillaging, most of the banks and stores had been looted. It would have been hundreds of pounds of silver. If you had alot of silver wouldnt you melt it down as well and make silver bars out of it so it would be easier to transport versus a ton of 2 foot candle holders? I'm just wondering why you hear all this talk about people finding KGC gold but never catches of KGC silver.

 

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[lastleg]

Silver wars? Tons of silver? You're talking about clodbusters who ran a tab
at the dry goods and who had only the essential silverplate to go round. How
could dry dirt farmers afford luxuries? They had a houseful of kids to feed. Get
real, in those days it was "root hog or die". If they had all that silver laying here and there why did they have to work sunup to dark to survive.
This is the quandry "wet behind the ears" coinshooters have. They all want to find fabulous wealth where none existed.
During the rebellion the South was fighting for it's existence. If they hid what
valuables they had do you think a rational human would forget where they put
it? And not simply retrieve it when it was safe to do so? A rational human who
hid grandma's gold locket would tell his family where in case he got shot.
No, it's always an iron pot filled with gold coins the "sages" write about to
sell books/mags. How many of you "treasure hunters" inquire of a landowner
if you can hunt their place for that pot-o-gold only to be laughed out of town?
Not many will admit it but I have had that responce when I was starting out.
It didn't stop me from trying but with a more realistic attitude.

 

[BoggyBottomJay]

Silver wars? Tons of silver? You're talking about clodbusters who ran a tab
at the dry goods and who had only the essential silverplate to go round. How
could dry dirt farmers afford luxuries? They had a houseful of kids to feed. Get
real, in those days it was "root hog or die". If they had all that silver laying here and there why did they have to work sunup to dark to survive.
This is the quandry "wet behind the ears" coinshooters have. They all want to find fabulous wealth where none existed.
During the rebellion the South was fighting for it's existence. If they hid what
valuables they had do you think a rational human would forget where they put
it? And not simply retrieve it when it was safe to do so? A rational human who
hid grandma's gold locket would tell his family where in case he got shot.
No, it's always an iron pot filled with gold coins the "sages" write about to
sell books/mags. How many of you "treasure hunters" inquire of a landowner
if you can hunt their place for that pot-o-gold only to be laughed out of town?
Not many will admit it but I have had that responce when I was starting out.
It didn't stop me from trying but with a more realistic attitude.

Exactly my point if people had all this gold that the KGC stole wouldnt it be more feasible that there was more silver to be had in the shape of family heirlooms or what have you? They looted and burned whole towns. Most banks in these towns would have just plain paper currency I would imagine.

 

[okietreasurehunter]

While I don't believe in KGC mega depositories I have to disagree about there not being any personal wealth. I have researched a number of stories where sums of $10,000 or more was hidden. Many times the person who hid those sums didn't pass along the location or if they did it was a vague description. Hard coin was a cherished item during the Civil War as paper money was basically worthless. Gold and silver would have been stashed away in a safe place. Some of it is still there to be found. You will make far more money cahe hunting than you will looking for a KGC vault. Silver coin by the way was often buried by the outlaws just because of the weight issue. Who wants to lug around a $1000 dollars worth of Morgans if they weighed over 70 pounds?

 

[lastleg]

Boggy, not an expert but I think chartered banks in that period were required
to hold some amount of gold in reserve. Not sure about the others.

 

[lastleg]

Okie, I was speaking of the vast majority of people uprooted by the CW.
If you personally know of such caches then you are very fortunate. In the
1970's the brother of a friend found an outlaw cache around a chimney near
Hugo, OK. 30K face value in gold coin. He had no expectation of finding more than a few silver coins.

 

[BoggyBottomJay]

While I don't believe in KGC mega depositories I have to disagree about there not being any personal wealth. I have researched a number of stories where sums of $10,000 or more was hidden. Many times the person who hid those sums didn't pass along the location or if they did it was a vague description. Hard coin was a cherished item during the Civil War as paper money was basically worthless. Gold and silver would have been stashed away in a safe place. Some of it is still there to be found. You will make far more money cahe hunting than you will looking for a KGC vault. Silver coin by the way was often buried by the outlaws just because of the weight issue. Who wants to lug around a $1000 dollars worth of Morgans if they weighed over 70 pounds?

I agree with there not being any KGC mega depositories. I believe that there was lots of personal wealth as well do to the fact that how many times have you seen a old Silver platter that someone has that use to be great great grandma's. I think alot of people that did have coin kept it close to home and not in the bank just do to the fact of the distrust in banks. I know banks had some gold in them but they also dealt in paper money. I would think that (not counting Lawrence) that most towns that had large groups of cavalry or soldiers heading there way would have some warning in some shape or form. Maybe in the shape of hearing news from the town up the road or maybe no more than a large dust cloud in the distant. But if there was a chance that your money or any other personal wealth could be taken from you, you were going to hide it fast.
If the KGC had MEGA cache I would think you would hear of KGC silver more than KGC gold.
Anyway the reason I quoted you in this one Okie is simply do the fact that I respect your opinion and always appreciate your input on things.

 

[okietreasurehunter]

If not for Orvus Lee Howk there wouldn't even be a discussion about KGC mega deposits. Nobody has brought forth any source for such things other than Howk. Even during the time Dalton was alive Howk was looking for nothing more than Jesse James loot. This of course was a scam. He used the same treasure map to hunt in four states that I know of.

 

[okietreasurehunter]

Boggybottom thanks for the compliment. I try and post information that is truthful and useful.

 

[alec]

Silver wars? Tons of silver? You're talking about clodbusters who ran a tab
at the dry goods and who had only the essential silverplate to go round. How
could dry dirt farmers afford luxuries? They had a houseful of kids to feed. Get
real, in those days it was "root hog or die". If they had all that silver laying here and there why did they have to work sunup to dark to survive.
This is the quandry "wet behind the ears" coinshooters have. They all want to find fabulous wealth where none existed.
During the rebellion the South was fighting for it's existence. If they hid what
valuables they had do you think a rational human would forget where they put
it? And not simply retrieve it when it was safe to do so? A rational human who
hid grandma's gold locket would tell his family where in case he got shot.
No, it's always an iron pot filled with gold coins the "sages" write about to
sell books/mags. How many of you "treasure hunters" inquire of a landowner
if you can hunt their place for that pot-o-gold only to be laughed out of town?
Not many will admit it but I have had that responce when I was starting out.
It didn't stop me from trying but with a more realistic attitude.

Hmmmmm. I posted an answer here before but now it has disappeared. Let's try again.

People forget things all of the time. Think about all of the times you misplaced your keys or put something imporant in a place where you knew you would remember where it was only to have to look for it becasue you forget where that special place was.

If you add into that people leaving their homes for a month or year or more during a war and things can get lost pretty easily. Lots of people hide things thinking they will be back for them and a lot of people think they won't get killed. Stuff happens and people get killed, injured, etc. Lots of things are still out there to be found because people just forgot where they put it or never made it back.

Just look at the outlaws. They even made maps and a lot of their stuff is still out there. Partely because they got killed and partly becasue they came looking for it anc couldn't remember where they put it, even with a map!

I've talked to several land owners who think I'm nuts but are also intrigued by the idea of buried treasure. I have been turned down on occasion but more often than not, if the landowner is approached in the right way I can get permission to look. Unless it is a spot that has been publicized then your chances are better than even you can get permission. Okie is correct in saying you stand a far better chance in finding a small cache than some mega-bucks depository, especially if you think it is connected to the KGC.

Boggy, that's a good point about the silver. I don't think I've ever heard anybody bring that up before. Well, except for Orvus Howk. He had a map that allegedly shows where "500-700 tons of silver, 16 tons of gold and 10,000-12,000 tons of copper was hidden. Man was he delirious!!

 

[BoggyBottomJay]

Oh man I even got one of Alec's cool maps on my post lol. I know its one of Howks but still cool none the less. I dont know if Alec compared my thinking to Howk just now. God I hope not lol.

 

[alec]

I'm sure you know my feelings on Howk by now Boggy.

You would think that if Howk had this much precise information about where tons of silver and gold were he could just go get some. I mean, he even marked where the opening to the hollow moutain is and the air shaft. How hard could it be to go in and get a few bars to live on

Of course we know that didn't happen because Howk died broke, just like he was the majority of his life.

 

[lastleg]

It makes you wonder why crooked snakes like Orvus still are quoted and
believed by the KGC religion advocates. Let me explain, if you devote your
life to a cause from dawn to dark that centers on cold bloodied killers and
become so giddy with every aspect of their lives, is that not worship?

I daresay if there were statues of all the Jesse Jameses, Frank Jameses,
Andersons, Billy/Brushys, Quantrills and Charle Manson in one place the whole
pack would be there gazing up in reverence.

 

[alec]

I think a lot of what happens is first the greed of finding a billion dollars sets in and then it becomes about being famous. A lot of us started out treasure hunting, myself included, for the money or the dream and sometimes both. Who knew it would be more of the lack of money instead!

Once you get through the intitial shock of the fact treasure hunting isn't easy and is far from an exact science then you are either hooked on it because you love the chase of the trail, the history, the challenge and your dream (the traits of a true treasure hunter) or you go find some other get rich quick scheme or just go back to work, no dream involved.

The KGC phenomenon is truely that. Something that was started as a scam and just created it's own energy. Of course it was several years later that the phenomenon actually started and then it was a thing that just couldn't be stopped without a lot of people looking bad. I think that is where it stands today. The really true believers have to much time and belief invested to say this didn't happen, the depositories don't exist.

I was a believer once, never an all out true believer, because there were too many questions and no answers. By wanting to learn how and actaully find one of these treasures it became obvious they didn't exist and couldn't have existed based on the information available. It's ahrd to admit you are wrong and some people jsut can't do it.

 

[alec]

Hey Boggy,

Here's another one of Howk's maps for you.

 

[BoggyBottomJay]

Hey Boggy,

Here's another one of Howk's maps for you.

Thanks ALec, I am also a fan of your writings and stories on the blog. I noticed you guys had put that one up not to long ago. I had seen it at the meeting back last summer in Marlow for the first time.

 

[alec]

Thanks Boggy and sorry for the repeat. I'll have to dig around in my files and see what I have that you haven't seen. That came from Howk, that is!

 

[dirty_digger]

Well Boggy, I have heard of this theory before. I have even discussed it with a friend. And I agree. There was more silver for looting by Quantrill and Anderson and the like than gold. KGC or not. You couldn't carry a burlap sack of silverware home to momma. Nor could you put that candlestick holder in your pocket. If you account for the small hair brushes or jewelry pieces that could have made it home as spoils for momma, you might get 10% of the silver used for things back then. If the soldiers went in to loot, they would have found that most coin money and jewelry had been stashed in that secret place that LASTLEG thinks would never go unforgotten. The other 90% (just a guess) of the silver would have been left in the home or simply stashed in a closet and easily found. As far as LASTLEG'S comment on the ownership of silver being an uncommon thing for most in the civil war. It was......Thats why history doesn't tell you that one small farm house outside Lawrence KS was burned. It was the town. Where people that weren't like most poor farmers lived. Farmer's didnt get in the way, and most farms were without a man or older son. The money and people with it were in town where the looting took place all over the north and south. If you had money and didnt live in town you owned a large ranch and had cattle to "give" the troops instead of being looted.

So.... The question still goes unanswered. Where is the silver?? GREAT TOPIC BOGGY.

Thanks for the laugh LASTLEG!!!!!

 

[alec]

I think in the case of the Lawrence raid, and I could be getting my history mixed up here, that they didn't travel too far (south out of town and across the river which back then would have been 4-10 miles depending on the route they took and exactly where they stopped) before they started looking for a place/places to stash a lot of what was looted.

They were looking to hide the big stuff because it was slowing them down.

 

[lastleg]

Dirty_digger, back to the library with you. History section. Until the huge
Western silver dicoveries were made AFTER the CW there was a large shortage
of that metal. The abolisionist town, of Lawrence was made up mostly John
Brown yankees with a pot but no window to throw it out of.
Like I said, you can't invent a commodity based on modern conceptions. You
must surmise that since solid silver candlesticks were imported from England
to New England the d...yankees brought wagonloads down to the barren prairie
town of Lawrence and the guerrilas dragged them out of town on a ships sail.