✅ SOLVED Musket butt plate id needed

[DownNDirty]

I found this butt plate today next to a large plantation that dates back to the late 1600s. The front side has the number "94" stamped on it. On the inside is stamped a backward "55" and what looks like a "C" and a "U." Also, notice the notch on the right side-possibly to accommodate a side plate?

 

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[TheCannonballGuy]

Your brass musket buttplate appears to be a dead ringer for the buttplate of a US M-1841 "Mississippi Rifle" EXCEPT for the width of the patchbox notch. Almost perfectly straight (not curved inward) main body, wide tang, one screwhole in main body and one screwhole in tang. Although in the past 40 years I've dug many civil war era gunparts, and therefore HAD to do identification research on them, I do not consider myself an expert on civil war era Firearms. So, I can only make a guess that yours might be a Confederate imitation. Or, sigh, I might be completely wrong on the ID.

 

[Fullstock]

It appears that you've found a butt plate from an 18th century German Jaeger rifle. The slot in the butt plate was where a wooden Patchbox lid slid onto the stock. Very cool find!

 

[Fullstock]

Another angle

 

[DownNDirty]

It appears that you've found a butt plate from an 18th century German Jaeger rifle. The slot in the butt plate was where a wooden Patchbox lid slid onto the stock. Very cool find!
View attachment 1495480

Thanks! A couple of questions (well actually three). First, was this a military-use gun or civilian? second, what do the numbers mean? And third, do you know what the symbols stand for?

 

[Fullstock]

Jaeger's were the first rifles, and the American Kentucky Rifles were developed and modeled after them. They were used to hunt wild boar in Europe and were used for big game in America. They weren't specifically developed for military use, but I'm sure that early militia units used them as well. Because most of them were made in small shops by individual gunsmiths, its hard to say what the markings were for, but the numbers could be rack markings.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Kentucky rifle? You mean Pennsylvania rifle. ;-) That's where the rifles used in early Kentucky were made.

 

[Old Pueblo]

If it was in early America, militias would have used it for sure. There were a lot of them and there was no standard firearm for all militias. They used whatever they had, like true frontiersmen. Great find.

 

[Fullstock]

Kentucky rifle? You mean Pennsylvania rifle. ;-) That's where the rifles used in early Kentucky were made.

Charlie, they are called Pennsylvania Rifles and Longrifles, but the commonly used name is Kentucky Rifle. Actually they were made in Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, Ohio and so on. The name was first used in a song after the Battle of New Orleans during the War of 1812. Andrew Jackson had riflemen from Kentucky and Tennessee and they tore up the Red Coats. The song goes, "and General Jackson wasn't scared of trifles, he had his Kentucky Riflemen and their Kentucky Rifles". And the name stuck. I'm a past president of the Kentucky Rifle Association, and that's the name we use. By the way, a few longrifles were made in Kentucky (not many), but most were made further East.

 

[DownNDirty]

A friend found a "PN" button at the same location. Their is a long-standing debate about them, but a lot of folks believe they were worn by continental soldiers.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Charlie, they are called Pennsylvania Rifles and Longrifles, but the commonly used name is Kentucky Rifle.

Not in these parts. (I'm fourth in from the left)

 

[Fullstock]

Not in these parts. (I'm fourth in from the left)

View attachment 1495495

I guess you can call it whatever you want to Charlie, it all works. [emoji4]

 

[DownNDirty]

Jaeger's were the first rifles, and the American Kentucky Rifles were developed and modeled after them. They were used to hunt wild boar in Europe and were used for big game in America. They weren't specifically developed for military use, but I'm sure that early militia units used them as well. Because most of them were made in small shops by individual gunsmiths, its hard to say what the markings were for, but the numbers could be rack markings.

Could the rifle this came from have been used by a Continental soldier?

 

[Old Pueblo]

Could the rifle this came from have been used by a Continental soldier?

More likely a Colonial militiaman, or minuteman, there were a lot more of them than regulars. But Continental soldiers probably used them as well. They were a rebel army and would have used any weapons they could get. These were desperate times. Just like in the Civil War, the rebels used all sorts of stuff that wasn't made specifically for military use.

 

[DownNDirty]

More likely a Colonial militiaman, or minuteman, there were a lot more of them than regulars. But Continental soldiers probably used them as well. They were a rebel army and would have used any weapons they could get. These were desperate times. Just like in the Civil War, the rebels used all sorts of stuff that wasn't made specifically for military use.

Thanks. I'm assuming the rifle had some sort military use, given the rack marking.

 

[Old Pueblo]

I dont know much about old firearms like this, but if its as old as the Revolutionary War, it was probably held by a militia member at some point, whether patriot or loyalist, nobody could say for certain. Everybody and their brother were in their local militia back then. Several of my grandfathers and uncles were in their local militia, and old firearms like that were often in use for a long, long time, since technology advanced much slower back then. Even in the Civil War in the 1860s, muskets manufactured in the early 1800s were still commonly used. That thing could have been in more than one war.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Figured I should mention, the "corner" of the Jaeger buttplate is very rounded, whereas on DownNDirty's buttplate the "corner" is a sharp 90-degree angle (like on the M841 Mississippi Rifle's buttplate). Clearly, that aspect of the Jaeger does not match up with DownNDirty's find... which is why I had discounted a Jaeger as a possibility. That being noted, the "dovetailed" notch for the patchbox is a key characteristic of a Jaeger, so despite the radical difference in the buttplate's "corner" I have to agree it is a variation of Jaeger buttplate. Kudos to Fullstock for the ID.

 

[DownNDirty]

Figured I should mention, the "corner" of the Jaeger buttplate is very rounded, whereas on DownNDirty's buttplate the "corner" is a sharp 90-degree angle (like on the M841 Mississippi Rifle's buttplate). Clearly, that aspect of the Jaeger does not match up with DownNDirty's find... which is why I had discounted a Jaeger as a possibility. That being noted, the "dovetailed" notch for the patchbox is a key characteristic of a Jaeger, so despite the radical difference in the buttplate's "corner" I have to agree it is a variation of Jaeger buttplate. Kudos to Fullstock for the ID.

Thanks CG. Do you agree with the identified time period-i.e., 18th century?

 

[DownNDirty]

Here are some pictures after final clean-up (I probably should have waited to make my post until I had these )



.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

DownNDirty asked:
Do you agree with the identified time period-i.e., 18th century?

I'd say latter-1800s, into the early 1800s.