Need Help with Shell Casing found at ghost town

[winslow]

Found this casing at a mining ghost town that was active in the 1800's. Nothing left to it now. The double pin strike on the rim is kind of interesting and does anyone know what the "P" on the headstamp refers to? I'm also wondering what kind of gun (and its age) would use this.

 

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[bigfoot1]

dont know if it helps....custers troops had some of these.....with an H

 

[Ruchman]

38LongRimFireCartridges
Pheonix metalic cartridge company? Cool find!

 

[bigfoot1]

could the peters round be fired by the henrys rifle?the dual firing pin marks indicate henrys.I'm new to this type of thing and really dont know

 

[BosnMate]

dont know if it helps....custers troops had some of these..View attachment 777543...with an H

Custer's troops were all armed with the 45-70 Springfield and the the colt .45 revolver. Both types of those guns fired inside primed, copper cased, center fire cartridges. I only know of the Henry and the '66 Winchester rifles having the two firing pins. There were a large number of Native Americans armed with the Henry repeater. In fact, according to the archeology report on the battle, if every Indian that owned a Henry rifle left the camp with only one magazine full of ammo they would have had enough ammunition to kill Custer's troopers several times over.

 

[Ruchman]

Could be wrong but peters never produced a raised "P" on there headstamps only impressed

 

[BosnMate]

Phoenix Cartridge Company had the raised head stamp. The Henry, dating back to the Civil War had a double firing pin, and the Winchester 66 yellowboy rifle had a double firing pin, and both looked alike on the fired case. The bulge in the center of the fired case is because there was a head space problem with rifle that fired it. The Henry and the 66 are the only two guns that I know of that had the double firing pin. Perhaps CBG knows of others, I don't.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

The only other rifle I know of which had a double firing-pin was the 1870s-and-later ".41 Swiss" Vetterli. Many thousands of those were sold to civilian big-game hunters in the US. But the Vetterli's double firing-pin was had two round points, and thus it cannot be mistaken for the Henry firing-pin's two short flat "bars" (which are shown in Winslow's photo at the start of this discussion). The photo below shows the Vetterli's firing-pin marks on a rimfire casing. But please note, it shows the casing was struck by the .41 Vetterli's round-tipped double firing-pin five times. Also note, the cross in the center is the Swiss manufacturer's headstamp -- it is NOT a centerfire primer.

I had not previously heard that the Winchester Model-1866 "Yellowboy" rifle had a double firing-pin. Thank you for that information.

 

[bigfoot1]

when I read that the henrys casing was found in large numbers at the little big horn and other battles I made the incorrect assumption is was the federal forces firing them.This thread has taught me much and sparked an interest in a new area for me...

 

[kuger]

when I read that the henrys casing was found in large numbers at the little big horn and other battles I made the incorrect assumption is was the federal forces firing them.This thread has taught me much and sparked an interest in a new area for me...

.....yep,Custers biggest mistake was thinking those Indians just had sharp sticks.If you ever get the chance make sure and visit the Battlefield.I lived at Crow Agency for a time.....bout 1 mile from it

 

[EmptyPockets]

I believe that is a .41 rimfire.

As for the double strike, I don't know. I think the Vetterli has round firing pins not blade type.
With that said, I am no expert on those types of firearms.

-Joanne

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

About your .44 Henry Repeating rifle bullet-casing's "P" headstamp:
A "raised" letter P denotes the Phoenix Cartridge Company, in business from 1874 to 1891. Its raised-P headstamp dates from 1878 to 1891.
An "indented" letter P denotes the Peters Cartridge Company, founded in 1899 and continued until to 1934, when it was purchased by Remington, which changed its name to Remington-Peters.

 

[BosnMate]

CBG, The 66 Winchester Yellow Boy had double firing pins identical to the Henry for awhile, I forget the dates, but after a year or two they changed to rounded firing pins. Because of the increased number of misfires from the rounded pins, they went back to the original rectangle ones, and supposedly they were exactly the same as Henry again, and except for two years or so of the rounded pin, the empty cases from the Henry or 66 can't be told apart.

 

[winslow]

Thanks for the help! You guys are a wealth of information.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

BosnMate, some additional comments are in my reply to your PM with your post's info in it.

I can testify that the head space problem you mention was a common characteristic of the civil war Henry .44 Repeating Rifle. The bulge in the base of Winslow's fired casing is typical of what we see on .44 Henry casings we dig at civil war battlesites. I wonder if the Winchester Model-1866 corrected the head space problem. If it did, that might be a way to distinguish between casings fired in a Henry rifle and in a Winchester '66.