Possibly rare button backamark?? Experts needed!

[smf399]

Found this button yesterday. It says brooks brothers New York on the back. Doesn't have any design on the front. I looked it up and I can't find a one piece button with this backmark. I know brooks brothers is a popular suit maker now. If anyone could find info on this button that would be awesome!

 

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[duggap]

https://www.google.com/search?q=brooks+brothers+buttons&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=P_9TU6zkLu3gsATCu4HgAQ&sqi=2&ved=0CGEQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=624#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=YOs4-NAdbp7nkM%253A%3BgWlZGQRzxJ0ZnM%3Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fimg1.etsystatic.com%252F000%252F0%252F5433400%252Fil_fullxfull.160940681.jpg%3Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.etsy.com%252Flisting%252F52282494%252Fset-of-brooks-brothers-brass-buttons%3B1500%3B1125
Check this out.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

According to the McGuinn & Bazelon book on button backmark dating, Brooks Brothers of New York has been a supplier of clothing and military uniforms since 1818, up to the present.

I have no doubt that the brass 1-piece flatbutton you found with "Brooks Brothers * New York * " backmark is an original one, not a reproduction. Because the company was founded in 1818, your button can date to anytime from that year through the late-1830s.

 

[smf399]

According to the McGuinn & Bazelon book on button backmark dating, Brooks Brothers of New York has been a supplier of clothing and military uniforms since 1818, up to the present. I have no doubt that the brass 1-piece flatbutton you found with "Brooks Brothers * New York * " backmark is an original one, not a reproduction. Because the company was founded in 1818, your button can date to anytime from that year through the late-1830s.

Thanks so much cannon ball guy! I found that they started using the name brooks brothers in 1850. So I was wondering if this button is a rarer one because the only ones I could find has designs on the front.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Your plain-front brass 1-piece flatbutton's "Brooks Brothers * New York * " backmark makes it an extremely rare one. A collector of "special" button backmarks would be interested in it.

I'm sure Bruce Bazelon, co-author of the book on button backmarks dating, would like to know of its existence. The book does not list any 1-piece buttons as having a Brooks Brothers backmark. The book gets updated with a new edition being published from time to time.

I have to say, it is very surprising to see a no-doubt-about it Brooks Brothers backmark on a brass 1-piece flatbutton, because the company was not called Brooks Brothers (plural) until 1850. That is about 10 years after plain-front flatbuttons fell out of favor with the general public, and thus button-makers almost entirely quit manufacturing them, especially the plain-front ones. I think the answer to the riddle of yours having an 1850-&-later backmark is found in two parts:
1- Only a few of the many hundreds of button backmarks actually tell the name of the button-manufacturer. The majority have what is called a "custom" backmark... meaning, it gives the name of a clothing-maker or dealer. (Brooks Brothers is an example of the latter, never being a button-maker, just a clothing-maker (and dealer). Button-makers offer their customers the option of a "custom" backmark as a form of advertising for the clothing-maker/dealer who buys the buttons for use on the clothing.
2- I believe the link posted by Duggap provides the second part of the riddle's answer. Brooks Brothers are famous for their custom-made suits... and that company still sells plain-front flatbuttons today, for use with their suits.

So, to answer the riddle, I theorize that in the 1850s (and perhaps for some time afterward) Brooks Brothers continued to order the old-style brass 1-piece flatbuttons from a buttonmaker, with their name as the backmark, for use on their famous suits, as a sort of "trademark" feature of those suits.

As I said, that is just a THEORY. But it's the only answer I can think of which makes logical sense.

Sidenote: The Wikipedia entry on the Brooks Brothers company says they made the suit which Abraham Lincoln wore at his second Inauguration as US President. If that suit still exists, it'd be very interesting to examine the buttons on it.

 

[smf399]

Your plain-front brass 1-piece flatbutton's "Brooks Brothers * New York * " backmark makes it an extremely rare one. A collector of "special" button backmarks would be interested in it. I'm sure Bruce Bazelon, co-author of the book on button backmarks dating, would like to know of its existence. The book does not list any 1-piece buttons as having a Brooks Brothers backmark. The book gets updated with a new edition being published from time to time. I have to say, it is very surprising to see a no-doubt-about it Brooks Brothers backmark on a brass 1-piece flatbutton, because the company was not called Brooks Brothers (plural) until 1850. That is about 10 years after plain-front flatbuttons fell out of favor with the general public, and thus button-makers almost entirely quit manufacturing them, especially the plain-front ones. I think the answer to the riddle of yours having an 1850-&-later backmark is found in two parts: 1- Only a few of the many hundreds of button backmarks actually tell the name of the button-manufacturer. The majority have what is called a "custom" backmark... meaning, it gives the name of a clothing-maker or dealer. (Brooks Brothers is an example of the latter, never being a button-maker, just a clothing-maker (and dealer). Button-makers offer their customers the option of a "custom" backmark as a form of advertising for the clothing-maker/dealer who buys the buttons for use on the clothing. 2- I believe the link posted by Duggap provides the second part of the riddle's answer. Brooks Brothers are famous for their custom-made suits... and that company still sells plain-front flatbuttons today, for use with their suits. So, to answer the riddle, I theorize that in the 1850s (and perhaps for some time afterward) Brooks Brothers continued to order the old-style brass 1-piece flatbuttons from a buttonmaker, with their name as the backmark, for use on their famous suits, as a sort of "trademark" feature of those suits. As I said, that is just a THEORY. But it's the only answer I can think of which makes logical sense. Sidenote: The Wikipedia entry on the Brooks Brothers company says they made the suit which Abraham Lincoln wore at his second Inauguration as US President. If that suit still exists, it'd be very interesting to examine the buttons on it.

Wow that is amazing! Is there a way I could contact Bruce bazelon to tell him about this?

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

I've talked with Bruce many times in the past decades at civil war relic shows, and provided some backmark info to him and his partner Bill McGuinn (whom I heard is now deceased). But since I no longer attend as many civil war shows as I did back then, I do not have Mr. Bazelon's current phone number or email address. I suggest you send an email to the editor of the North/South Trader's Civil War magazine, to see if she would be willing to forward your message (and button photos) to Bruce.
North South Traders' Civil War Magazine Welcome

 

[smf399]

I would never ever sell it but I was just wondering how much something like this would be worth?

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Plain-front brass 1-piece flatbuttons most often sell for $1 to $2 at civil war relic shows. I should mention, asking-price and selling-price are often different. I should also mention, their value is low because they are civilian-usage buttons, not military. Also, they are extremely common. The value of a plain-front flatbutton (average price is $1.50) with a rare backmark is directly proportional to the collector's interest-level. The hard part is finding somebody who collects flatbuttons for their backmarks. I've met perhaps half-a-dozen such collectors in my nearly 40 years as a dealer of excavated 1700s/1800s relics. But since you've asked me to appraise it... because I know it is a particularly interesting backmark for a flatbutton to have, if I owned it I would ask $15 for it. That may seem low, but remember, that's ten times the value of a typical plain-front flatbutton. The main roadblock to its value is that it is a civilian-usage button, not a military one. I do wish I had happier news for you about its value. If I were in your shoes, I'd focus more on having found such an extreme rarity in flatbutton backmarks than on its dollar-value.

 

[smf399]

Thanks for the info! I really don't care about the value I just think it's cool to have found a unique button!