range of cannon shot

[Bobadilla]

Hello,

I am after very interesting shipwreck here in Dominican Republic. I could narrow exact location of this shipreck if I would know an approximate range of a cannon fire in the middle of the 17th century. Can anybody help me? Thanks in advance.....

Bobadilla

 

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[wwwtimmcp]

shot could carry 2 miles but in order to hit anything and do damage , I'd say a quarter to half mile tops.

 

[wwwtimmcp]

john muller's "a treatise of artillery 1780 says

33,24 pounder cannon not carronades had a range of 6,000 paces or 3,000 yards point blank was 600 paces
16 pounder cannon had a range of 8,000 paces or 4,000 yards point black is 800 paces
12 pounder cannon had a range of 5,000 paces or 2,500 yards 450 paces point blank
8 pounder cannon had a range of 3,000 paces 300 point blank
4 pounder cannon had a range of 1500 paces point blank was 150 paces

length of barrel, type of barrel,brass,bronze,iron, quality of powder, powder charge etc all makes a difference
the distances all were conducted in the best possible circumstances and guns were known to explode even if the rules of powder weight per pound of shot.

 

[ivan salis]

the cannon range depends on the size and type of the cannons the vessel carried as well as the type of shot used-- smaller vessels of course carried smaller cannons --and fewer of them --bigger vessels --bigger cannons and more of them -- the vessels called treasure "GALLEONS" were nothing more than beefed up NAO class vessels with extra fighting men and cannons put aboard -- normally they used the biggest and best built vessels in their fleet for this duty--

pirate vessels were famous for putting on lots of small bore cannons to assist in "clearing the decks" before boarding a vessel -- since their main goal was not to sink the other vessel, but rather to board it and rob it of any items of value -- big crushing cannons tended to sink the other vessel before it could be looted ---thus the smaller cannons using grapeshot and such were used.

 

[Trond]

length of barrel, type of barrel,brass,bronze,iron, quality of powder, powder charge etc all makes a difference
the distances all were conducted in the best possible circumstances and guns were known to explode even if the rules of powder weight per pound of shot.

Yes i was thinking the same.

 

[Mackaydon]

I'm just assuming that, all others variables being equal, muzzle-loaders, being more efficient that breech-loaders might have a longer range.

 

[Bobadilla]

Many thanks to all of you for your valuable posts, indeed! It hepled me a lot. I have been conducting some investigations "in situ" and to determine where the shipwreck could be, depends on the position of frigate that sank her.
Thanks one more time!

Lobo (Bobadilla)

 

[Chagy]

Hey Partner,

What are you up to now? I want to congratulate you on the Kidds shipwreck that was found a few months ago in DR....
I will make clear that you didn't find it....But I will also make clear that you did pinpoint it in your book before they found it..
You are a great researcher...I heard that your book will be available in English soon.....

Compadre I hope to see you soon....

Chagy.......

 

[Mackaydon]

Bob:
Based on all the variables mentioned above, if you wish to advise the list of the specs of cannon you are referring to, I'm sure someone can be more specific in responding to your Q.
Don.....

 

[ivan salis]

ok first item -- frigate -- so smaller type cannons -- since they couldn't handle the bigger type cannons too powerful for her decks -- so your looking at the smaller size guns -- humm sank another vessel -- so most likely was using solid shot then -- to break her hull in at the water line --or "shiver me timbers" --when the big iron balls hit the wood the impact / shudder/ was felt thru out the vessels wooden hull. --- Ivan

 

[Voldbjerg]

If you know the nationality and class of frigate it should be fairly easy to find her armament. Can you give us a name of the ship?

/V

 

[Bobadilla]

Hello Eveybody!

Chagy.....

Thanks for your nice words, my dear friend. I think that you can imagine how I felt when I found out that Capt. Kidd´s shipwreck had been found exactly where I pointed it out in my book two years ago....I only hope that I have been right in other locations, too....

Yes, you are right, the second edition of my book will be available practically within couple of days also in English. Terry Arsmtrong did a great job and he took over publishng of my book in Florida. If anybody is interested, just give him a call or send an email, he is also member of Treasurenet. I will be more than pleased to answer any of your questions, of course.....

I am after VERY interesting shipwreck, Luis. I have been doing my deep research both in archives and "in situ" for last couple of months. Long forgotten, but I repeat, VERY interesting..... I sent you email couple of weeks ago, look at it again. I count with you and with Terry in this project anyway.

Luis, I hope that everythig is fine with you and with your wife and I would really like to see you soon in person.....

Don, Ivan and Voldbjerg......

The problem is that I do not know exactly what kind of cannons were on board. I tried every possible archive source but without any success so far. The ship who sunk "my" shipwreck was English frigate. I have been in contact even with Naval Archive in London but they could only confirm that this frigate really was at that place in action, nothing else. I plan to go there diving very soon to try to find some cannon balls, measure them and based on that fact find out the size of the cannon. Knowing the possible range in advance, it would narrow my search.....

Thanks to all of you......

Bobadilla ..... (Lobo)

 

[Chagy]

Compadre,

Send me an e-mail with the details and I will try to help you......

I think we will see each other in person sooner than what you think...

Send Blanq. our love...

Chagy......

 

[Mackaydon]

Lobo:
If your vessel was sunk by a British frigate (and I assume you know the approx. date), then isn't all you need to know is the range of the cannons on board the frigate? It would seem that information should be readily obtainable--since you know at least three things: The year of the loss, the class of attacking ship and (soon) the type of cannons that type of vessel--in that period of time-- would generally be carrying.
Don.......

 

[Chagy]

Lobo:
If your vessel was sunk by a British frigate (and I assume you know the approx. date), then isn't all you need to know is the range of the cannons on board the frigate? It would seem that information should be readily obtainable--since you know at least three things: The year of the loss, the class of attacking ship and (soon) the type of cannons that type of vessel--in that period of time-- would generally be carrying.
Don.......

Don,

Was it commun practice for a type of vessel to carry a type of cannon..I ask because I found this information

A fifth-rate was a sailing frigate mounting 32 to 44 guns with the main battery on a single deck.
Fifth-rate ships acted as fast scouts or independent cruisers and included a variety of gun arrangements from 32 or 36 x 12 pounders to 36, 38, 40 or even 44 x 18 pound guns. Tonnage ranged from 700 to 1450 tons, with crews of 215 to 294 men.

Chagy.....

 

[Mackaydon]

Chagy:
My guess is that ships rated first to fifth class carried 'standard' cannons for their rating, and that assortment could be altered by each captain or modified-- as when seizing, then using, a gun from a captured vessel. Fifth raters were stationed in Jamaica in 1690 (and deployed to 'Sarah'); and I'd wager the types of cannons they carried could be determined after some research.
Don.......

 

[ivan salis]

as frigates went --the bigger the better ---the larger they were the more guns they carried (24 up to 38 was the norm) around the 1700's ----thus more guns they carried the higher they were rated* --their rating was based on their number of guns and a sixth rate frigate of 24 guns was the lowest one to carry a post capt --- they were often called post ships -- looking at the later battle of yorktown during the american revoltion where british naval type cannons off of british frigates were used on land -- it seems the max range was 2,000 yards (1.2 miles) with a true effective range of about 1,000 yards (6 / 10th of a mile) so between -- 1.2 miles to .6 of a mile I believe is the answer you seek -- hope this helps --- (this was actual in the feild battle use) --say 2/3 of max powder load to prevent bursting the cannons

ah ha !! seems the 32 lber was the standard british naval cannon* of the day -- in 1700 .

so look at the 33lb cannon listing above ( I believe this is under "ideal conditions" with new cannons and "max" loads of powder) --3,000 yards --max range is 1 .8 miles with the effective range being half that say 9/10ths of a mile . (using the later american battle info as a guide to assist me to think it out)

 

[Smithbrown]

In the mid-17th century- are we talking 1650s?- I doubt the average frigate was carrying a 32 pounder (or demi-cannon, as they would have called)- too heavy and too large. The mid-17th century picture is also confused by the use of a type of cannon called drake- these were specifically designed to be used at shorter distances thantheir longer, heavier counterparts. My guess would be culverin (18 Pounder) drakes for a 1650s English frigate.

Smithbrown

 

[ivan salis]

1750 or 1650 --I thinkin this case he means 1750 --- the middle 1700 to 1800 time frame in this case -- although historically speaking term wize you are quite correct ---of course the mid 17th century was correctly the year-- 1650 --and of course there was a vast differance in the types cannons carried on a english frigate in 1650 vs 1750 of that there is no doubt

 

[Bobadilla]

Hello Don, Chagy and Ivan,

English frigate sailed to DR coast from Jamaica, we are speaking about 1680 period. I am just afraid that there were not only one size of cannon on the board of the frigate and this fact complicates my research. The battle between these ships was definitely held between 1,5 miles nad 0,8 mile range.
Thanks to all for valuable information!

Lobo