Rust removal for artifacts

[seekerGH]

Very interesting device.

 

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[enrada]

Awesome piece of equipment. I'll look it up and find out how much it costs.

 

[Tom_Restorer]

I have such a laser with 20 Watts (only) for cleaning wallpaintings, stones and many other materials but it is unfortunly not to use on any kind of ancient metal ! This lasers are q-switched and even if you see a line tere, it shoots small tiny spots anf they are to see on the metal ! I tried it on ancient iron, silver and bronze fragments for testing and the result was not good. Even with the lowest power of approx 2 watt it leaves marks on the surfaces. On moden shiny and poslished metal surfaves it is an other story because the laserlight gets reflected.

Btw: If someone want to by my CL-20 back pack Clean laser, you can get it for 20.000 Euros! Was just 800 hours in use and still has its full 20 watts. Price for this unit new is 50.000 Euros + taxes.
It is air cooled (no water cooling!), workes with 220 volts and is a comfortable back pack systen.

Pic is here: Laserreinigung

 

[sprailroad]

That thing scares me.

 

[CaptEsteban]

NEAT. I think I will buy one & go into the " Tattoo removing business !"

 

[seekerGH]

Tom, what about heavy encrustation like a cannon? Will this take off layer by later, with a maximum depth per pass, or is it to bare metal?

 

[huntsman53]

A Paint & Body Shop would probably love one of those as they could remove paint and rust from body panels or a whole car in about one percent or so of the time that it takes to sand and grind the same. The customer however, would likely pay the same or more since the Shop would have to recover the cost of the laser.


Frank

 

[1percenter]

That thing about shipwreck iron is not the rust. It's the salt. You can't just take rust off. You have to stabilize then reverse the process the material took to get that way. Different processes for different materials. That have been at the bottom of the ocean.

 

[seekerGH]

Really? Wow, who would have thought?

 

[Tom_Restorer]

Tom, what about heavy encrustation like a cannon? Will this take off layer by later, with a maximum depth per pass, or is it to bare metal?

Such concretions needs to get removed with an air chissel or "hardcore style" with hammer and chissel before it goes into an controled electrolysis to remove the salts :-)
There is no way to remove it with such a laser.
As I said, it is useless on archaeological or maritime metall objects. Even if you think you can make the remaining oxyde layer looking better with such a laser, you will fail.
On such thick layers you would also need high power (like in the video above) but the problem here is, that the laser can´t see the difference between outer rust layers, the inner oxyde layers an the "good" surface. You would shoot trillions of small spots into the surface and this with an expensive equipment wich costs more than 150.000 $. Also the laser wouldn´t harm the outer calcium carbonate layer because it is almost white! The easiest way to remove concretions is too chissel it carefully down. Also think about all the nano particles wich goes into the air. Not real healthly to breath them, even if we all must be immunized now by all the aluminium oxyde in the air :-) ....and to get rid of them, you need special and expensive filters wich can catch this nano oxyde particles.
Some times (or better said MANY times!) the good old style restoration is the best way. Not all new inventions are the best for atifacts.

 

[Tom_Restorer]

That thing about shipwreck iron is not the rust. It's the salt. You can't just take rust off. You have to stabilize then reverse the process the material took to get that way. Different processes for different materials. That have been at the bottom of the ocean.

The talking here was ONLY about rust removal and not conservation or preservation but anyway...
Salt is not the problem in first case so long as the objects lies in water and kept wet while they been cleaned!
Do you think all the artifacts in the labs are stored in fesh water for desalination and this with full concretion ? NO! There would be no way to bring out the salts from such homogen layers!
The simple reason why they lie in water is the fact that they don´t dry and the oxygen will start to doing his part and let the salt crystals growing wich blows the oxyde layers and some times an entire object apart. So salt "is good" and not a problem as long as it is dissolved in water :-)
And what do you mean with "first stabilize" and than "reverse the process" ?
First comes the cleaning, than the desalination and than the drying/stabilisation/preservation.
Also you can not reverse an corrosion process, otherwhise you would have on every object a perfect surface again. Metal wich is gone by corrosion, is not to bring back with any kind of "reverse process"....
But hey... who knows, may the rust, oxyde and patina layers has some kind of memory effect we don´t know yet and they know the exact place they was when the piece was still intact :-)
May it is an laguage problem... I know that english has a massive lack of words and you very often use one word for many many mayn many many different meanings (up to 60 for one word, so far I figured out). (good for laywers, courts and contracts, specialy with foreign countries hahaha)
So if "to stabilize then reverse the process" means something different as to understand in my language, I am sorry!! :-) :-) :-)

 

[Tom_Restorer]

That thing scares me.

My wife too! Specialy since I wanted to try out some hair removal on her :-)
Now there is a lock on the laser case and I don´t know were she hides the key.....
The reason why I sell it include the LOCKED expensive case... LOL

 

[Tom_Restorer]

NEAT. I think I will buy one & go into the " Tattoo removing business !"

For tatoo or flesh removal ? ;-)

 

[huntsman53]

The talking here was ONLY about rust removal and not conservation or preservation but anyway...
Salt is not the problem in first case so long as the objects lies in water and kept wet while they been cleaned!
Do you think all the artifacts in the labs are stored in fesh water for desalination and this with full concretion ? NO! There would be no way to bring out the salts from such homogen layers!
The simple reason why they lie in water is the fact that they don´t dry and the oxygen will start to doing his part and let the salt crystals growing wich blows the oxyde layers and some times an entire object apart. So salt "is good" and not a problem as long as it is dissolved in water :-)
And what do you mean with "first stabilize" and than "reverse the process" ?
First comes the cleaning, than the desalination and than the drying/stabilisation/preservation.
Also you can not reverse an corrosion process, otherwhise you would have on every object a perfect surface again. Metal wich is gone by corrosion, is not to bring back with any kind of "reverse process"....
But hey... who knows, may the rust, oxyde and patina layers has some kind of memory effect we don´t know yet and they know the exact place they was when the piece was still intact :-)
May it is an laguage problem... I know that english has a massive lack of words and you very often use one word for many many mayn many many different meanings (up to 60 for one word, so far I figured out). (good for laywers, courts and contracts, specialy with foreign countries hahaha)
So if "to stabilize then reverse the process" means something different as to understand in my language, I am sorry!! :-) :-) :-)

As we all know, unless you can turn back time, you can't reverse the process. However, I think that 1percenter meant by using Electrolysis to remove rust, we can bring back some of the original/undamaged surfaces of metal. On another note, I know that Car Restoration and Auto Body Shops used and may still use a process for removing rust from auto frames by coating the frame with a chemical (I do not know what the chemical is), then blast the rust off with high voltage electricity such as is used in a Arc Welders or Tig Welders. I would imagine that this process would be more damaging to shipwreck artifacts than using slow Electrolysis.

We won't get into a debate over words spelled the same that have different meanings but I have always had trouble with how to use "Sie" depending on what sentence it is used in. HA!!!


Frank