The great Oak Island conspiracy!

[b3y0nd3r]

So i am honestly trying to wrap my head around the logic of the debunkers on the TV show, "Curse of Oak Island".

According to what I read, there is a vast "conspiracy" when concerning the show. With forces trying so hard not only to deceive you, but take all of your money as well. I am going to list the culprits of this vast web of deceit and hopefully solve this conspiracy, once and for all! Let's just hope we don't find the "umbrella man" along the way!

The producers of the show are lying to us. Apparently, their ONLY motivation is getting stellar ratings for their TV show. They "mislead" the audience by speculating about the finds on the island. Instead of hearing; "A roman artifact, on Oak Island?". What the audience really wants to hear is; "A broken pitch fork from the 1930's, on Oak Island?" because that's what sells.

The brothers are in it only to be big TV stars! That's right! Ever since they were kids, theY thought of nothing but becoming BIG movie stars. That thing about them dreaming of OI and solving the mystery is just another lie!

The experts used in the show to verify the history of the finds are not only second rate and incompetent, but make stuff up because they just don't know. I mean, an antique dealer from California would definitely be lying about the "pitch fork piece" vs a Roman spear tip. He just wants to make sales by showing how ignorant he is. Zena, with all due respect, must not have know anything about the Templars if she claims they were at OI. She just made it up. How about those goofs analyzing the metal composition of the finds? Just guessing to get research money I bet.

Where's Oswald in all this?

You see how utterly silly this line of thinking is? It is just like the JFK assassination where everyone seems to have a motive to cover up the conspiracy and yet, keep it all secret at the same time.

I can buy that the producers want to make an exciting show, however, I also don't take everything they say as gospel. I bet a few others don't either.

I can buy that the brothers are dreamers and are speculating. It's their time and their money so let them. just because you can't do it, or don't like them doesn't mean what they are doing is wrong.

I can buy that some experts may not have all the correct facts or that they make mistakes. That's human. Just because some one is involved in OI doesn't make them perfect, nor a liar either.

So regardless of what motivates whom to what end, it is important to say, "this is just a show. it isn't life or death to me, and whatever happens, I promise not to base my life around it".

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

DR.ÖTEK Metal Detector, Waterproof Gold Detector, Pinpoint & Terrain Modes, Professional Metal Detector - Grab it through Amazon!

[Dave Rishar]

So i am honestly trying to wrap my head around the logic of the debunkers on the TV show, "Curse of Oak Island".

Fair enough. As a debunker, perhaps I can be of assistance in explaining my logic. I'm unwilling to represent any of the other debunkers, but they are of course free to step in to correct me where necessary. This is just my view, and my view alone.

According to what I read, there is a vast "conspiracy" when concerning the show. With forces trying so hard not only to deceive you, but take all of your money as well.

Incorrect. They don't want all your money. They want all of the advertisement money, and perhaps whatever other money that they can get. The simplest route is to get people watching the show. This is not limited to this show, or even reality TV in general. It's the vast majority of television programming, and most monetized Youtube content as well. When the person making it profits through the amount of people watching it, the financial incentive is on the person making it to make it in such a way that more people will watch it. Even if they started with pure intentions, the reality of modern life will be constantly pushing them in another direction.

As I've said in the past, this is neither good nor bad, but it is how the game works. There are a few people in this position who somehow don't get pushed off course and I'm immensely respectful of them, as I can't imagine how that is even possible. For the majority, they get pushed more or less. I don't dislike them for that. Everyone has to make a living. I'm just glad that I'm not in a line of work where my financial situation is eroding my integrity. Most folks that know me personally would tell you that I'm entertaining, but I will be the first to tell you that I could never be an entertainer. Or a politician for that matter.

The producers of the show are lying to us. Apparently, their ONLY motivation is getting stellar ratings for their TV show.

Partially correct. If the producers worked for me and I found out that they were doing something other than getting stellar ratings for the show that they were producing, I would want a very, very good explanation for why that was. Their job is making a TV show that sells. If they are not doing that, then they are not doing their job. If someone that works for me is not doing their job, there had better be an extremely good reason for that.

They are not always lying. When the truth is convenient to the narrative, I'm sure that it's presented as more or less accurate. The goal is to make an entertaining program, not necessarily to deceive the audience. Deception is probably only used when it's necessary.

If you'll recall, when that Spanish coin was turned up early in the show's run, I was one of the few skeptics that was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on it. Sure, they could have bought it on Ebay for $4. But they absolutely could have honestly dug it there as well, as similar coins have been turning up all along the eastern seaboard for several hundred years. If honesty and education were the goals, they would have pointed out just how common these coins are in that part of the world, especially right on the coast. Instead, they spun a pirate angle. That's dishonesty for entertainment value - again, not a bad thing, because this show was never meant to be educational, even if some choose to accept it as such.

They "mislead" the audience by speculating about the finds on the island. Instead of hearing; "A roman artifact, on Oak Island?". What the audience really wants to hear is; "A broken pitch fork from the 1930's, on Oak Island?" because that's what sells.

While that might sell for a history buff, that will not sell for the average viewer. They don't give two effs about their grandpa's hand tools. They want a fabulous treasure, and barring that, the promise of a fabulous treasure - the more exotic, the better.

The brothers are in it only to be big TV stars! That's right! Ever since they were kids, theY thought of nothing but becoming BIG movie stars. That thing about them dreaming of OI and solving the mystery is just another lie!

It's possible that everyone is correct here. Perhaps the brothers entertained the idea of going after the treasure. And perhaps they were contacted about the possibility of a television show. And maybe that television show did far better than anyone imagined. And maybe we're where we are now. Or maybe the idea from the start was a TV show. Or maybe the idea was never a TV show, they're losing money hand over fist on it, and everyone is complaining here about all the nonsensical stuff that the Laginas are doing because the Laginas are honestly attempting to find a treasure by doing nonsensical stuff. I can't know which is accurate. I can only frame it with a filter that makes everything make sense and go from there.

By guessing at the goals of the Lagina brothers, I'm engaging in mind reading and I don't like doing that because I can't read minds. However, the pro wrestling filter leaves this as the obvious conclusion while explaining all of the seemingly stupid and illogical things that have been done on the show so far. If you have another filter that answers all of those questions while not invalidating anything else, please throw it out there. All of us are smarter than one of us, and I never completely trust a conclusion of mine until it's been bounced off a number of other people. As it sometimes happens, other people have better answers than me.

You see how utterly silly this line of thinking is? It is just like the JFK assassination where everyone seems to have a motive to cover up the conspiracy and yet, keep it all secret at the same time.

It doesn't seem silly to me at all, but like everyone else, I have my cognitive blind spots. I think that I'm right, but I may be wrong.

It's interesting that you brought up the JFK assassination as an analogy. Disregarding the oddities of that case for a moment, I suspect that the main problem that most people are dealing with on a subconscious level is how such an unimportant man could have killed such an important man. Had JFK died of colon cancer, I suspect that today we'd be discussing who had poisoned him, and why.

I can buy that the producers want to make an exciting show, however, I also don't take everything they say as gospel. I bet a few others don't either.

And I'd bet that most do.

I can buy that the brothers are dreamers and are speculating. It's their time and their money so let them. just because you can't do it, or don't like them doesn't mean what they are doing is wrong.

Even if this was a plot to sell a TV show from the start, they would not be wrong. It's entertainment. It doesn't have to be honest to be good entertainment. In fact, I'd argue that most good entertainment is not honest. And if I (or you, or everyone else on this forum) had a problem with what they were doing, it wouldn't amount to a drop in the bucket. They're not worried about what we think, and they have no reason to be.

The implication that skeptics are skeptical because of pettiness is...well, petty. I'm skeptic because the story doesn't make sense, and my impression of the pushback that I receive here and elsewhere (cognitive blindspots notwithstanding) is that my questions trigger cognitive bias in people much more invested in this than I am, even after I take the time to explain what cognitive bias is and how it works, which may in fact make their reactions more negative. This is fine.

Would you believe me if I told you that I became a skeptic because I was originally a believer? It's true.

I can buy that some experts may not have all the correct facts or that they make mistakes. That's human. Just because some one is involved in OI doesn't make them perfect, nor a liar either.

Agreed. However, if I were producing a television show and I was going to bring an expert on, I'd discuss what I wanted to hear with them prior to putting them in front of a camera. I wouldn't simply go with the first one that I found in the phone book. And I would not be unduly harsh on an expert that maybe fibbed a bit, especially after they'd been briefed on the nature of the product - namely, entertainment.

A childhood friend of my uncle was on a few of those cryptozoology shows that Discovery ran back in the nineties. When my uncle called him on it, his explanation was that biology doesn't pay the bills, but when your name is in the hat as a guy that will say the right things for a television show, you can expect a few paychecks.

So regardless of what motivates whom to what end, it is important to say, "this is just a show. it isn't life or death to me, and whatever happens, I promise not to base my life around it".

I'm not sure that anyone is basing their life on this...even those producers that we're talking about. When this show ends, they'll move on to Ice Road Alaskan Gold Loggers, or whatever is hot at the time. The skillset is largely the same.

 

[b3y0nd3r]

Dave Rishar; Thanks for taking the time to post your response. I have a more clear understanding of your skepticism. However, I think you missed the sarcastic overtone(yes overtone) of my post LOL

While we see what we see, in regards to the show, imagine if there were experts out there that weren't as sensational and were edited out. See, we really don't know what is really happening, we only have a edited slice of the show that is presented to us. How many hours are filmed then edited from the final airing of the episode is unknown.

Having said that, the only way I have to gauge what the truth is by their reactions(and i'm not talking cut-aways either). I was an investigator, so I have training and experience to tell genuine from fake in a person's response.

IMO, you seem to feel that the show purposefully trying to mislead is dis-honest. You are a truth seeker(?/.) To me it's salesmanship. I just need to filter, which is sales, and which is truth.

However, if there are people that are so blinded by what they see on TV that they feel it is all absolute truth, then what you are doing is a good thing and i commend you!

 

[petetherocker]

Would you believe me if I told you that I became a skeptic because I was originally a believer? It's true.

Same here,

I'm Canadian, and I WANT TO BELIEVE in some vast treasure buried beneath our soil. But the more I investigated, the more I came to be a skeptic...

 

[sasquash]

Same here,

I'm Canadian, and I WANT TO BELIEVE in some vast treasure buried beneath our soil. But the more I investigated, the more I came to be a skeptic...

I want to believe too ...

but I prefer this one.

 

[Menace]

Same here,

I'm Canadian, and I WANT TO BELIEVE in some vast treasure buried beneath our soil. But the more I investigated, the more I came to be a skeptic...

Here’s what happened on Oak Island.

- Kids went out in the boat to “play”.
- Kids weren’t home before the street lights came on.
- Kids made Up a crazy story to explain why they were late.
- Adults ran with it cuz they WANTED to hope they could get rich.

The Bobby Dazzlers were most likely lost or planted by tourists paying to visit the island in the late 1800’s when things like “lead crosses” wouldn’t have had much value even if it was 500 yrs old.

You’re welcome.

 

[b3y0nd3r]

Here’s what happened on Oak Island.

- Kids went out in the boat to “play”.
- Kids weren’t home before the street lights came on.
- Kids made Up a crazy story to explain why they were late.
- Adults ran with it cuz they WANTED to hope they could get rich.

The Bobby Dazzlers were most likely lost or planted by tourists paying to visit the island in the late 1800’s when things like “lead crosses” wouldn’t have had much value even if it was 500 yrs old.

You’re welcome.

A great example of "pure speculation".

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

This is the proper island for that.

 

[Singlestack Wonder]

With 98% of the last episode rehashing previous episodes and the upcoming episode going back yet again to an imaginary, non-existent templar connection coupled with the hole drills only bringing up wood fragments and other trash from a multitude of from previous digging operations, it appears they are running out of material. The upcoming episodes where they find more common items at the newly constructed coffer dam at smiths cove will be milked for as long as they can (Scientific analysis done on wood, stone, nails, spikes, and common trinkets. Trips to Europe, etc.). Then at the end of the season, gaawwy will find yet another mystery item in an attempt to hold the interest of the network and advertisers.........the current era hoax continues......

 

[b3y0nd3r]

With 98% of the last episode rehashing previous episodes and the upcoming episode going back yet again to an imaginary, non-existent templar connection coupled with the hole drills only bringing up wood fragments and other trash from a multitude of from previous digging operations, it appears they are running out of material. The upcoming episodes where they find more common items at the newly constructed coffer dam at smiths cove will be milked for as long as they can (Scientific analysis done on wood, stone, nails, spikes, and common trinkets. Trips to Europe, etc.). Then at the end of the season, gaawwy will find yet another mystery item in an attempt to hold the interest of the network and advertisers.........the current era hoax continues......

If you truly believe that then what purpose does it serve to constantly repeat yourself? We all heard this same skeptic argument before with nothing but speculation to back it up. I'm not saying you are wrong, I am saying without any evidence, your argument doesn't hold water.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

That was a series of observations. Not speculation.

His only speculation is that that will continue the farce into further episodes.

 

[etex]

What's a cat badge?

 

[firemanphob]

Bring in the dowsers. they could probably get another season out of that or the dowsers could just look at the pictures and tell them where the treasure is. After that they could bring in a medium to contact the Templer spirits to find out where the treasure is (another season). Then they could use photos taken from outer space to find the treasure (another season). perhaps they would hire me to come up with ideas for them.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Been there, done that. Dowsing is how the location of 10X was determined - where the brothers are currently playing around.

 

[Dave Rishar]

A great example of "pure speculation".

That seems to be the primary focus of this forum, so...

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Interesting that on Oak Island tonight when they got news of the possible lead cross mine location being near Rennes Le Chateau they did a flash back scene of their trip to France. The scene showed a gentleman walking out of a doorway to greet them and just above him on the outside of the building was the classic "pirate" skull and crossbones.

I wonder why it is there on that building?
I wonder how old the building is and if that is an original design?

Could it be a representation of something other than pirates? - sorry couldn't resist!

Now if you were looking for the origin of the skull and crossbones vs jolly roger a simple naming difference results in much more information.

Wait for it....

The symbol is an ancient one, becoming widespread with the medieval Danse Macabre symbolism. From at least the 12th century, it has been used for military flags or insignia and as a warning of the ferocity of the unit displaying it. It became associated with piracy from the 14th century onwards, possibly even earlier. By the 15th century, the symbol had developed into its familiar form.

The Knights Templar organisation, active from the 12th century until their demise in 1307, adopted a skull-and-crossbones flag to identify ships belonging to their vast fleet. [3] The skull and crossbones as a pirate's flag could well predate the Knights Templar [4]

BOOM!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_and_crossbones_(symbol)

 

[Al D]

Be sure to watch next week when the Oak Island team offer for sale some ocean front property in Arizona.

 

[Megalodon]

If you truly believe that then what purpose does it serve to constantly repeat yourself? We all heard this same skeptic argument before with nothing but speculation to back it up. I'm not saying you are wrong, I am saying without any evidence, your argument doesn't hold water.

Skepticism should be the normal way to look at the world. It is up to those making outlandish claims to provide clear evidence to form a theory, and then to test that theory before reaching conclusions. Science by nature is skeptical. It would be great to see a treasure on Oak Island, but the premise is so fantastically steeped in conjecture and wishful thinking, it is very unlikely. Strange things happen and I would love to be proven wrong - but it is not necessary to prove skepticism. I am amazed that people believe things like this story with so little evidence, while at the same time, being skeptical or disbelieving, or idiotically denying the results of real scientific inquiries and research like evolution and climate change.

 

[gazzahk]

I am amazed that people believe things like this story with so little evidence, while at the same time, being skeptical or disbelieving, or idiotically denying the results of real scientific inquiries and research like evolution and climate change.

....It is not necessarily the same people....

 

[Megalodon]

....It is not necessarily the same people....

True - but more amazing when it is!