The Never Ending Nightmare- What You Should Know!

[Omega]

Hello everyone. May be my first real post in this section, but I used to be very active in the CRH and Garage Sales sections of the forums. This is a long and detailed story, but I will try to write it to be as short and to the point as I can, but I am absolutely furious about the situation and how it has been handled thus far. I hope the sharing of this story keeps you guys on your toes and I hope none of you have to experience what I have been going through.

A little background to start off. I have been selling on eBay since 2007. The past few years I have surpassed 100k+ in sales annually. I just graduated from college in May, so I'm fairly young. I mainly sell jewelry, coins, diamonds, watches, and stuff of that nature. I source my items from colleagues, wholesalers, garage sales, swap meets, estate sales, eBay, Mercacri, Offer Up, Craigslist, and a few other platforms.

Tuesday morning at 7:30 I was walking out of my driveway to my car when I was approached by two local detectives (from SoCal) who confronted me, and asked me to go inside my house to talk. Our whole conversation lasted just under an hour. They were send on behalf of the FL PD in regards to two watches I had for sale on eBay in my store. They asked to see the watches and confirmed that they were the watches that they were looking for. They then asked and looked at the rest of my inventory for other pieces that may have been related to their case. They found one other watch of interest. I'll save you the bore of the conversation we had, but a number of inappropriate comments were made by the detectives that left a sour taste in my mouth. The watches that they were sent to inspect were for sale for $2000 and $3600; the additional watch they took was $7400, for a grand total of $13,000. After our hour-or-so conversation, they left my house with my three watches that I had purchased over the past 6 months through the Mercari platform.

Longer story shorter, I was later questioned by the FL detective over the phone, and then had to give an official statement to the courts for the criminal case they were putting together against the individual who sold me the watches. Not wanting to take the $13,000 loss that I had just incurred, I immediately started calling and trying to figure out how I could get my money back. I figured I could get my money back a few ways: restitution from a court case, from the Mercari platform, or from my credit cards. There are major problems with all of these I will explain in the following paragraph.

Apparently restitution laws vary from state to state, but in CA, they are an absolute joke. I have 5 friends who have all been ordered restitution from different court cases for a total of over $100k, none of which have received more than $500 in years. My chance of actually receiving restitution payments, in my experience, is very very small; but this may be my best option at the end of the day. I then called Mercari, and after 2 hours on hold, trying to get a hold of someone, I explain my situation and that I am out all this money due to buying stolen property through their site. The call was dropped before we could finish our conversation, but I received an email from them today stating that there was nothing that they could do for me, and that MY account was being shut down... okay... If you're a buyer on Mercari, you need to know for a fact that a number of individuals on there that are using the site to fence stolen goods and are getting away with it; legit buyers are having to pay the price with no support or backing from the admins. Lastly, my credit card company says that they will be investigating the purchases and may give me my money back since felony fraud had been conducted. I have talked to numerous people in the business who say that at the end of the investigation, my claim will be denied. So unfortunately I am preparing myself to swallow the $13,000 loss.

This got me thinking about the policies regarding the purchase of stolen property on all of the other platforms I/we use such as Offer Up, eBay, and PayPal. I spent a few hours calling them to discuss their policies and procedures in this regard. Offer Up says you are SOL , and offer no buyer protection if you purchase something stolen. PayPal will cover you for 6 months after the purchase date if you can provide the police report and show that the items you purchased were confiscated by the police; which is great if it is within 6 months, but again, you are SOL if it is after 6 months. eBay has the best policy in place, but it is not very clear. Their buyer protection extends past their normal time frame, and is either one or five years (I was told different things). Just like PayPal, you provide the documents and they will cover your losses and pursue charges against the original seller. eBay ALSO requires that you get your local PD to contact them directly to explain the situation. If you've ever had any interactions with your local PD, that is easier said than done. I think it's important for everyone to know these policies and laws in regards to the platforms we use in case anyone else is put into the situation I am currently in as it is an absolute nightmare.

To continue my story, I received the official police report from my local PD today, and the detectives that showed up to my house have messed up the police report in stating the correct watches that were taken, and then amount that I purchased them for. So at this point, the police report has different descriptions that what was actually taken from me, which won't match up on my credit card statement, which is going to be another headache when the CC company asks for the police report/ proof. I plan to go town and talk to another detective on Monday to try to get the police report fixed, but I have no idea how that procedure works.

The story will continue when I get more information or something significant happens. I hope none of you have to go through this, as I have now lost $13,000, numerous hours of sleep, endless time on the phone, and almost all faith in the police investigation system.

 

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[goldenwonderbear]

Would like to hear the follow-up on this. Plus, other's nightmares. I have a box full, just not near so costly.............h

 

[Kray Gelder]

Sorry to hear of your difficulties. I have a few comments about your narrative. First of all, your list of items that you specialize in, and where you stated you "source" them...unless you're naive in the extreme, you already knew you were in the stolen goods business. Don't deny it. Second, you did not mention a warrant. If no warrant was presented, you should not have allowed the police into your home.

Third, you cannot expect these platforms to make you whole, when you knew you were operating on the fringe. And fourth, the "loss" you state is your retail price. While this may sneak through on your tax returns, you did not lose that amount.

Sucks to be you, but you're in the trade, get used to it.

 

[Omega]

Sorry to hear of your difficulties. I have a few comments about your narrative. First of all, your list of items that you specialize in, and where you stated you "source" them...unless you're naive in the extreme, you already knew you were in the stolen goods business. Don't deny it. Second, you did not mention a warrant. If no warrant was presented, you should not have allowed the police into your home.

Third, you cannot expect these platforms to make you whole, when you knew you were operating on the fringe. And fourth, the "loss" you state is your retail price. While this may sneak through on your tax returns, you did not lose that amount.

Sucks to be you, but you're in the trade, get used to it.

Thank you for your reply. Few things I'd like to respond to in regards to your comments:

First, the statement in regards to being "in the stolen goods business" leads me to believe you don't actually have any hands on experience in this field and have not done much research. While stolen goods do come up every now and then, good intuition and instincts will usually lead one to not purchase those items. In my case, I asked where she got the watches and why she was selling them. She stated they were from an estate and explicitly said that they were not stolen when asked. Stolen goods of this nature are just as prevalent as any other kinds of goods that are being offered and sold on these platforms, and are not limited to just the items I listed above, so to say that this business is for "stolen goods" is a bold and inaccurate statement. Less than 7% of items that are brought into pawn shops are stolen. Less than 1% of those are stolen from someone other than a family member.

Second, I did not state it, but the police did have a warrant.

Third, I do expect these sites and platforms to offer buyer protection for cases like this. It is there job to monitor what is being sold on their sites, and ultimately held liable. If a pawnshop fences stolen property, the owner pays massive fines and will most likely spend time in jail. Why is it any different for websites? Why should they fence stolen property and get away with it with no liability? Why should I as a consumer have to shop in fear on these sites? Saying that this is operating on the fringe is like saying buying anything pre-owned is risky and on the fringe which shouldn't be, and isn't the case.

Fourth, the retail price of the watches was somewhere around $28,000-$30,000. I had offers on the table in the previous weeks for the watches that were taken from me that I could have sold for around $13,000. I pay and file all my taxes to the fullest extent, and I'm sure this will somehow get factored in next year when I have to file again, as I am no tax expert myself. I will talk to my tax accountant once the dust settles. I am in the trade, but this is not something I plan to get used to. I have a number of friends in the business who have never had an experience quite like this, even when dealing with stolen goods/ the police/ detectives.

Lastly, I didn't come here to argue or fight with anyone. Just want everyone to be aware of these policies and how it may effect them in the future and was wondering if any one else had any similar incidences. Thanks again for your response.

 

[Al D]

Unless there is a link between you and the person you purchased the watches from, besides the sale, they cannot connect you to the theft, and the platform where you made the purchases, is autonomous by its very nature, so there is no reasonable way you could have known or suspected that the merchandise was stolen, looks to me like they do not have a case, however, you will not get the watches back. Tough break

 

[Kray Gelder]

I read your initial story, and sent my response. I'm not looking for an argument either. If you are going to pursue this line of work, you will be dealing in stolen goods. Just because you don't know what's stolen, doesn't change that. You will lose more merchandise in the future, or get entangled with the law, when you buy items like diamonds, jewelry (gold ), high end watches, at venues like swap meets and garage sales.

If you use on-line platforms, you will also get stung, and it's on you.

If you didn't know before, now you do. As alan m says, they cannot connect you to the theft.

Just having a conversation.

 

[GibH]

First, I'm sorry this happened to you. That said, I really don't see how you can hold Mercari responsible. Heck, I'm really old. I liken it to holding a newspaper responsible if I had bought something from a classified ad. Due diligence and caveat emptor...

AND... just be glad they got to you before the watches sold. If they had sold, you would have been out the cost of goods and had to refund the buyer.

 

[Drmad7]

I disagree wholeheartedly with Katy Gelder. I buy stuff from garage sales, estate sales, OfferUp, and other places and never think I am in the stolen good business. I buy from folks who say they are short of money or selling stuff because they are tired of it. I’m sure some stuff on different platforms could be stolen, but not enough to say I’m in the business.

 

[flashyace]

I read your initial story, and sent my response. I'm not looking for an argument either. If you are going to pursue this line of work, you will be dealing in stolen goods. Just because you don't know what's stolen, doesn't change that. You will lose more merchandise in the future, or get entangled with the law, when you buy items like diamonds, jewelry (gold ), high end watches, at venues like swap meets and garage sales.

If you use on-line platforms, you will also get stung, and it's on you.

If you didn't know before, now you do. As alan m says, they cannot connect you to the theft.

Just having a conversation.

Damn bro... harass much. Think someone is jealous they don’t get the cops attention

 

[Beachkid23]

Maybe contact a lawyer. My cousins are in Tampa. They found 25 100oz Engle hard silver bars in a parking lot. Reported it to the cops. Pd took them, said they were stolen and they couldn’t get them back. Guess what, They sued the PD and got them all back. Took awhile. But they got them all back.

 

[Nitric]

Sorry to hear of your difficulties. I have a few comments about your narrative. First of all, your list of items that you specialize in, and where you stated you "source" them...unless you're naive in the extreme, you already knew you were in the stolen goods business. Don't deny it. Second, you did not mention a warrant. If no warrant was presented, you should not have allowed the police into your home.

Third, you cannot expect these platforms to make you whole, when you knew you were operating on the fringe. And fourth, the "loss" you state is your retail price. While this may sneak through on your tax returns, you did not lose that amount.

Sucks to be you, but you're in the trade, get used to it.

I've dealt in the same items ......I'm going to disagree with you here. Or maybe I'm misreading what your saying. Just because someone deals in these type of items doesn't mean they are in the "stolen goods Business". There are many, many people that deal in these items that will not deal in stolen items. Now, the chance of running into one is probably a little higher than dealing in homemade crafts. but there are ways to protect yourself or to try to limit ending up with stolen items. I just feel that your kind of giving anyone that doesn't know or understand how many legal items that are moved daily in this area? the wrong picture. Coin,jewelry, and watch dealers aren't in the "stolen goods business". That's a pretty bad accusation to make without actually knowing the OP. But by what he mentioned above? How can we determine that?


To the OP, Here's where you are lucky!! You have proof of where you purchased the items, because it's not uncommon for people to lose everything over a couple of stolen items of that value. Meaning, they(law enforcement) take everything and you sort it out later. It's called "Asset forfeiture" if you've never heard of it. And it does happen. If you would have sourced those from a garage sale? It may have been a different story if you don't do the proper paper work. Even if doing it as a Hobby!!!!

For purchasing at a garage sale or out and about, you need to make up a form that you fill out, especially on these type higher value items...I've been away for awhile but there is certain info you need from the seller. DL number, name, address, a brief description of the item etc...A picture of their license the item laying beside it is sometimes good enough...If you don't know about that...look into what it is that you need to be current with that. Then as a buyer (with a brick and morter) I had to have these on hand for the local police to see at any time. Some places even make you turn them in every month or so. That all depends on what your doing and your county.

With that paper I was told that I would get the money I spent back on the item if it turned out to be stolen. Luckily, it never happened. And I moved a lot of volume for a few years...from small gold ear rings to high end watches and coins.

And no, just because your in this business doesn't make it a "Stolen goods business".I believe the term for those guys is "fences"?...You just have to try to stay away from it by "feeling" out the seller. There are people out there with legal mass collections and that are always buying and selling. There is a difference between that and meeting someone in an alley or gas station parking lot to buy.

For the kind of money that your talking of? I think I'd be talking to an attorney...

Also, you may know, there is a LOT of money to be made out there and anything you can imagine can happen. Stay smart and on top of the laws and who you deal with. There are some shady characters out there. They will follow you to find out where you keep your stuff, they will try to set you up to get you out of their local business, they will sell you collections and steal them back, etc....This stuff DOES happen. But most guys that I've meet were good guys, there are always a few bad ones that give everyone a bad name. Once you get a good reputation sourcing won't be a problem.

 

[boogeyman]

Hello everyone. May be my first real post in this section, but I used to be very active in the CRH and Garage Sales sections of the forums. This is a long and detailed story, but I will try to write it to be as short and to the point as I can, but I am absolutely furious about the situation and how it has been handled thus far. I hope the sharing of this story keeps you guys on your toes and I hope none of you have to experience what I have been going through.

A little background to start off. I have been selling on eBay since 2007. The past few years I have surpassed 100k+ in sales annually. I just graduated from college in May, so I'm fairly young. I mainly sell jewelry, coins, diamonds, watches, and stuff of that nature. I source my items from colleagues, wholesalers, garage sales, swap meets, estate sales, eBay, Mercacri, Offer Up, Craigslist, and a few other platforms.

Tuesday morning at 7:30 I was walking out of my driveway to my car when I was approached by two local detectives (from SoCal) who confronted me, and asked me to go inside my house to talk. Our whole conversation lasted just under an hour. They were send on behalf of the FL PD in regards to two watches I had for sale on eBay in my store. They asked to see the watches and confirmed that they were the watches that they were looking for. They then asked and looked at the rest of my inventory for other pieces that may have been related to their case. They found one other watch of interest. I'll save you the bore of the conversation we had, but a number of inappropriate comments were made by the detectives that left a sour taste in my mouth. The watches that they were sent to inspect were for sale for $2000 and $3600; the additional watch they took was $7400, for a grand total of $13,000. After our hour-or-so conversation, they left my house with my three watches that I had purchased over the past 6 months through the Mercari platform.

Longer story shorter, I was later questioned by the FL detective over the phone, and then had to give an official statement to the courts for the criminal case they were putting together against the individual who sold me the watches. Not wanting to take the $13,000 loss that I had just incurred, I immediately started calling and trying to figure out how I could get my money back. I figured I could get my money back a few ways: restitution from a court case, from the Mercari platform, or from my credit cards. There are major problems with all of these I will explain in the following paragraph.

Apparently restitution laws vary from state to state, but in CA, they are an absolute joke. I have 5 friends who have all been ordered restitution from different court cases for a total of over $100k, none of which have received more than $500 in years. My chance of actually receiving restitution payments, in my experience, is very very small; but this may be my best option at the end of the day. I then called Mercari, and after 2 hours on hold, trying to get a hold of someone, I explain my situation and that I am out all this money due to buying stolen property through their site. The call was dropped before we could finish our conversation, but I received an email from them today stating that there was nothing that they could do for me, and that MY account was being shut down... okay... If you're a buyer on Mercari, you need to know for a fact that a number of individuals on there that are using the site to fence stolen goods and are getting away with it; legit buyers are having to pay the price with no support or backing from the admins. Lastly, my credit card company says that they will be investigating the purchases and may give me my money back since felony fraud had been conducted. I have talked to numerous people in the business who say that at the end of the investigation, my claim will be denied. So unfortunately I am preparing myself to swallow the $13,000 loss.

This got me thinking about the policies regarding the purchase of stolen property on all of the other platforms I/we use such as Offer Up, eBay, and PayPal. I spent a few hours calling them to discuss their policies and procedures in this regard. Offer Up says you are SOL , and offer no buyer protection if you purchase something stolen. PayPal will cover you for 6 months after the purchase date if you can provide the police report and show that the items you purchased were confiscated by the police; which is great if it is within 6 months, but again, you are SOL if it is after 6 months. eBay has the best policy in place, but it is not very clear. Their buyer protection extends past their normal time frame, and is either one or five years (I was told different things). Just like PayPal, you provide the documents and they will cover your losses and pursue charges against the original seller. eBay ALSO requires that you get your local PD to contact them directly to explain the situation. If you've ever had any interactions with your local PD, that is easier said than done. I think it's important for everyone to know these policies and laws in regards to the platforms we use in case anyone else is put into the situation I am currently in as it is an absolute nightmare.

To continue my story, I received the official police report from my local PD today, and the detectives that showed up to my house have messed up the police report in stating the correct watches that were taken, and then amount that I purchased them for. So at this point, the police report has different descriptions that what was actually taken from me, which won't match up on my credit card statement, which is going to be another headache when the CC company asks for the police report/ proof. I plan to go town and talk to another detective on Monday to try to get the police report fixed, but I have no idea how that procedure works.

The story will continue when I get more information or something significant happens. I hope none of you have to go through this, as I have now lost $13,000, numerous hours of sleep, endless time on the phone, and almost all faith in the police investigation system.

It's a little late now, but anytime you give up or have items taken from you, demand a property receipt. One it shows they acquired items from you, stolen or otherwise. Two it'll save you having to unscrew their mistakes. Third if by some weird chance a mistake was made & the items weren't hot it'll save you months trying to get the items back. In the future, you can ask a seller for pics of an item & call your local PD and let them run the item before any money changes hands. Keep up with the case if possible! There could be a reward for recovery from the owner or insurance company.

 

[Nitric]

I read your initial story, and sent my response. I'm not looking for an argument either. If you are going to pursue this line of work, you will be dealing in stolen goods. Just because you don't know what's stolen, doesn't change that. You will lose more merchandise in the future, or get entangled with the law, when you buy items like diamonds, jewelry (gold ), high end watches, at venues like swap meets and garage sales.

If you use on-line platforms, you will also get stung, and it's on you.

If you didn't know before, now you do. As alan m says, they cannot connect you to the theft.

Just having a conversation.

Yes, this is just conversation.....I disagree with this too. Just because you buy these items doesn't mean that you "will" be entangled with the law and that you "will" be dealing in stolen items. No offense but that is crazy talk!(I'm saying that jokingly). This depends on a lot of different variables. Is it possible? Sure! anythings possible. But it doesn't mean that it "will" happen. There is a lot to this and not that simple. I can buy at a few flea markets and buy from many individuals with complete confidence that the items are most likely not stolen.(or could in the past, I don't deal in it now because of other interests) These are in well off area's with a lot of money and some of this stuff is sold when parents pass, or left by grandparents, sold by spouses after a death, or just because someone needs money etc...Even estate sellers would meet at the flea market to get an Idea of what I'd pay and if it was good enough after they called their client, they would sell it to me right there. I've even bought these items from Church fund raisers. People from that church would pull all their unwanted jewelry and sell it to us to raise money for the Church, of course we gave them a better price because it was a church and the amount they sold us. Some people have huge collections and sell off a little at a time, or sell to buy more. I had a couple of older people that sold off so much every couple months, I don't even think they needed the money, they just wanted someone to come over and drink coffee and talk(sad but true) and sell a little of their collection off, I meet one of them from a craigslist buy ad we had at they time. Your painting a picture that doesn't have to be true. Yes, if you buy in the back ally or from a guy that looks like he's tweaking your chance is probably pretty high for stolen items.

I do agree with you on this.....Whatever you buy is on you. I agree with that 100%. It's not the platforms fault. But...I do see his point with them to help go after the guy that sold it to him. That all depends on the Terms that you sign when buying or selling on their platform too....If it's in the writing then sure use it, but to blame the platform or hold them responsible? I'm a little mixed on that and don't really have that sorted out in what I actually think there. Not sure how to view that yet...

Anyhow, Just conversation...I just think your throwing a bad picture for people that deal in these items. There are a lot of good people with good reputations dealing in these items. I took/take pride in my name, that was very important to me. I would never knowingly buy or sell something stolen. If it would have happened? I would have taken full responsibility and corrected the problem and moved on. This is also where knowing your "paper work" , and who you are buying from helps too. Doesn't mean it's fool proof but does lessen the chances. You can end up buying anything second hand and it end up stolen, anything is possible...and in this you have to pay attention, but doesn't mean that you "will".

Ok, this is all in fun...And you may be right for certain areas, but I didn't find what your saying to be true in my experience. I was also very careful and if a deal didn't "feel" right I passed on it. I do know of people that got greedy and that did go the wrong direction and they do eventually get caught. But out of all of the guys I meet dealing in that stuff, the good guys out numbered the bad guys. People have this idea that those items second hand are in the criminal world, and it's not true in my experience. What did shock me, is the volume of stuff that is moved on a daily basis. I didn't believe there was that much gold and silver was out there. And most diamonds aren't worth crap. That's a real scam!! That's where the real crooks are! selling "new" diamonds. hahahaha I'm joking! It's not the sellers it's the monopoly that I'm referring to.

 

[Omega]

Got my money back through my credit cards and the Mercari platform. Huge pain but definitely worth it.

Case is still pending in FL against the person who stole the watches and sold them to me.

 

[A2coins]

Glad it worked out thieves effect all us of everyday

 

[GarageSaleKing]

Sorry that happened to you. You are just trying to make a buck like everyone else. It is too bad that some people won't work hard to do the same.

 

[Johnnybravo300]

Seeking restitution is a waste of time. You'll never see any money and the courts dont enforce it after the court hearing. They only state if restitution is due but it stops there.

They only enforce if you owe THEM money. Been there done that. Yes our legal system is a friggin joke and the donut eaters are even worse.

 

[MRBeyer]

As you said, different laws in different states. Once lost a small amount (compared to yours) when a frequent customer noticed a ring I had bought was one stolen from her. Was sold to me by a paraplegic in a wheel chair who obviously didn’t B&E her place to steal it, turns out he was a local drug dealer killed in the interim in a drug deal gone bad. Anyhow, knowing and trusting her statement I only asked the PD to be present to witness me turning it over to her. I lost a small amount, built up good will with a good and frequent customer and good vibes with the local PD. Worth it in my book.

Previously I have had some stuff stolen and successfully tracked it down to the pawn shops. Both WA and SC, you have to refund the business for what they paid for it as you are assumed to have been compensated for the loss by your insurance company. It was my choice to not seek such restitution from my frequent customer I mentioned earlier. Like I said, it was a smaller amount.