Theory about trade

[RGINN]

We know that trade was very extensive among ancient people. You see those depictions of Kokapelli, the hump-backed flute player. He has become the identifier and icon for southwest art, I guess. It is my theory, I guess, that this is a representation of the trader, carrying his pack. The flute would be used for playing certain songs that would alert the sentinels of villages that the trader was approaching. Where we see this image inscribed on rock these days would be sign posts indicating the trader would stop here, or passes by here. I also believe it would be a very, very, bad thing to harm or kill a trader. I have seen some other information along these lines, but just wondered what everyone here thought about that.

 

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[Tnmountains]

Rginn great post.
That is a very interesting theory and probably bears some truth to it. We are always thinking that the ancients were constantly trying to survive. Study is now showing that they had humor and compassion. Burials have been found many times that show that they cared for the elderly and even children born with crippling deformities were cared for until old age.Even if this meant carrying them around feeding and providing for them their whole life.
I think your image of the trader bears a lot of truth. Arthritis was a constant and tooth aches could kill you. You made it to 40 and you were doing good. Maybe your Kokapelli was humpback or suffering osteoporosis from arthritis? Imagine the excitement of seeing beautiful new stone from far away places and other than some basic communication the flute was a universal way to be welcomed. In monetary terms trade was the standard.I can imagine they traded with each other on a daily basis just as we stop and fuel our vehicles and shop at the store.
When times were tough though it is like today survival of the fittest. You wanted someone that could provide. They say that going back to neanderthal times the woman probably ruled the cave and the man had better bring home the bacon if he wanted to enjoy the luxury's of umm the cave?
Good post and lots of room for thought.
We have sites were only one or two types of points were made. We wonder if from isolation this is all they knew how to make or was it all they needed in that place in time to survive.
Maybe your trader could have showed them new styles and carried technology in a knapped stone picking up new technology along the way.I imagine that is a lot of what they did. Showed diffrent styles from diffrent areas and they adapted that style into what fit for their needs. Later as the populace grew they traded more bulk material. Was not the frozen ice man a trader?
Just some thoughts. Sorry for the long late post.
TnMtns

 

[jaron3]

I'm sorry to say that I don't know anything about the humpback flute player. I'm just getting back into the prehistory realm after about a ten year layoff. I've got a lot of catching up to do. However, all the way back to my college years 1995-2000 I've felt that there was more to the trade network than met my eyes. It just so happened that one of my professors felt the same. Hearing you talk about the flute player and why he carried the flute makes perfect sense to me. And it stands to reason that the trader would be someone that no one wants to harm. They are neutral because they want to trade with everyone. Not only would they trade goods but also services and technology. I'm no expert in the field but I would guess that a good trader would be someone of above average intelligence. He has to be able to remember the tips and techniques that was demonstrated to him so he can carry it on to the next place. Also, he has to be someone that gets along with everyone. I'm sure that in your own life you have met people that everyone liked. He was funny, friendly, kind, and no one had a bad thing to say about him ever. These are the kinds of people that would make a good trader. Sorry for the ramblings. Just some food for thought. You may agree or not. In my opinion that's what makes this forum so cool. The different opinions, ideas, mindsets, etc.

 

[Rege-PA]

I agree with your thoughts but think that some trading expeditions would require a larger party...simply to be able to bring back more material for the benefit of all. Small groups would also be able to survive accidents and hostilities better. I can see the lone individual operating within a certain tribes area, but moving out of that realm would require more individuals to insure success of the expedition. The flute idea is good but may have included drums, whistles and even chants in other cultures to insure safe conduct. Good thread...

 

[naturegirl]

Along with the fun of looking for and findings what they left behind, I wonder about thier emotions. The more I learn, I don't think they were just "animals" incapable of the emotions we feel today. I wonder about the developement of intelligence(?), and then the seeming decline of intelligence of mankind. We seem to get smart, and then lose it. So, are emotions the same way? This is a wonderful thread, I like what ya'll have posted. I don't know diddly about Kokopelli, but I will learn, and I like jaron3's thoughts. The things that make life pleasurable and survivable are just the physical realities of living. Why even try to survive if there isn't some kind of pleasure, and I think they had to be aware of some form of it, maybe even more aware than we are today. Maybe it ebbed, like intelligence seems to. And music must be so ingrained in us as a pleasurable thing. What ever form it has taken, what ever the instrument, voices included. Now I'm wandering off topic. I do agree, traders were probably a certain kind, and as an individual, or a group, they had to have something about them that would allow an established society to welcome them, or allow them entrance. Mere curiosity of someone different? Bringing with them, something different?

ng

 

[RGINN]

Excellent responses, and I enjoyed them all. Jaron3, if you don't know about the 'humpbacked flute player', it means you probably have a more discerning taste in art. Along with that coyote sitting there howling, you see this image a lot as representative of the 'Sante Fe' or 'southwest' art genre. They're really not, as the originators of that style will know, but it sells to the tourist trade, and some of it is pretty. However, the flute player is commemorated in native american rock art. Traders would have to be intelligent, as they would have to be conversant in many languages depending on the extant of their travels. They would most likely take wives in the different tribal groups. I think a lot of them were folks who weren't in it so much for the profit of trade, but just for the fact it was an excuse to travel and see the country, and they enjoyed interaction with different cultures. People are pretty much the same regardless of the century; there are rebels now and there were rebels then. And this is a thread where rambling on is welcome. Thanks to all who responded!

 

[uniface]

So much depends on population dynamics and resources. Life gets better and better until there are too many people and wars break out. Then trade disappears along with most of the people, and the cycle starts over again.

Late Woodland (or middle -- I forget how they classified it) in much of the north east here begins with the charcoal layer. Where there had been an amazing number and variety of cultures, each carefully exploiting a defined lithic resource (and probably susbistance strategy), after a certain point, they just disappear. The village sites are burnt and the artifacts mostly pot-lidded and fractured from heat. After that, the triangles begin.

This corresponds exactly to the oral history of the tribes in Pennsylvania and New York, who recount that their ancestors had fought their way in, finally managing (at horrendous cost) to overcome and annihilate the Alleghwi giants.

Old (like nineteen fifty something) archaeological journals I used to have had articles about hilltop fortifications from the tail end of the Hopewell era. Dragoo (back when people could still talk about this stuff), said that the Adena people (this is from memory, so don't hang me) had been driven out ; many of them going down the Mississippi and founding the Copena culture, with others heading north up the other side of the Alleghenies as far as into Maine. Even the Trail of Tears displacement sent just enough refugees north to escape it, following the mountains, that the extremely used-up artifacts of southern cherts that mark their trail can be (rarely, but often enough) found up the Susquehanna valley and into New York.

Point is, that the extensive trade eras correspond (from what I can determine) with the economic fat times. The Archaic-into-Woodland sites I hunted in Montour Co. (Penna.) produced an amazing variety of traded-in materials from 100 and more miles away. Berks Co. Jasper from the east, Houserville Jasper from the southwest, Rhuolite from the south, Quartzite from the southeast, Argellite from wherever it comes from, Onondaga from New York, &c. That whole show stops in the charcoal layer. After that, triangles.

History anywhere is ups and downs like that. For a real good handle on one corner of this, showing the way it played out in near-historical times, check out
http://www.siftings.com/late.html