My Worst Fear

[Sir Gala Clad]

My Worst Fear is that the Excalibur will soon follow the Sovereign in obsolescence.
Why wouldn't it - the Xcal is but a less capable sovereign which has been ruggedized for diving to 200 feet.

Both metal detectors rely on analog inputs from knobs to control settings and switches to turn on/off and change modes.
Potentiometers are fragile and easily stripped, switches freeze after exposure to mist/salt in the air.
Both detectors must be carefully cared for and more frequently returned to the factory for repair.
The reliability of electronic circuits can be increased and cost(s) reduced by digitizing analog inputs as soon as possible
and eliminating analog components which can wear out/degrade.

It appears that Minelab had done this with their CTX-3030 which can be used in shallow salt water.
I suspect that obsolesce of the Xcal will depend on how well the CTX-3030 sells.
The Xcals, and Sovereigns will be my last purchase(s) from Minelab when/if this happens.

As Gary T. Drayton states his book on the Sovereign " You cannot beat an old fashioned toggles and knobs machine for getting the best performance possible.
You do not have to fiddle around with display screens and probability meters.
Any minor adjustments on the beach take just a quick turn on a control knob which is far easier than having to stop and scroll through programs trying to adjust a setting.
I suspect that the diving market is small and fragmented - most likely dominated by Pulse Induction (PI) metal detectors,
unless you are diving near modern wrecks where there is a lot of metal. Most Xcals are used at the beach (dry sand, wet sand and shallow water).
If accepted by treasure hunters the CTX-3030 will be used in the same domain as the Xcal as well as on land, and is more flexible: (change coils, headphones, GPS, etc).

 

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[Treasure_Hunter]

Sovereign was retired because the sales had fallen down low... Excal sales are high, they want be getting rid of Excal anytime soon at all......The CTX3030 is only water proof to 10 foot, the Excal is waterproof to 200 feet.... I have no fear of the Excal being discontinued, if anything I expect a new version in the next couple years.......... Salt water detectors is still a big market..... Unless and until Minelab comes out with a PI that has true discrimination the Excal will continue to be with us..............

 

[Sandman]

The CTX 3030 is way over priced for the average treasure hunter. We do not go to the beach in Caddies.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

The CTX 3030 is way over priced for the average treasure hunter. We do not go to the beach in Caddies.

When I find that gold bar on the treasure coast I might start........LOL

 

[bigscoop]

Never fear. The Excal is very safe. The 3030 is only good to ten feet, and I can buy 2 Excals with different coil sizes for the same price as the basic 3030 without all the required accessories. Pay for all the 3030 accessories and I'll buy a third Excal with a WOT or SEF. Most beach hunters don't want or need extra bells and whistles, they want a top notch beach machine, and when that other guy's 3030 goes down, I'll still have other Excals to fall back on, for the same money. I have no doubt Minelab is aware of all this. The Excal is the king of beach machines and there is also a lot of money being made from repairs. Minelab wouldn't even think about phasing it out until they know they can beat it. The 3030 isn't that machine.

 

[bigscoop]

You know, I touched on this the other day with Search&Recovery, .....I really believe it's just as matter of time before we'll see a beach machine that can go from VLF to PI with the flip of a switch and coil. You can bet there are already some creative minds toying around with that concept.

 

[dewcon4414]

I believe they will switch it over to FBS with some up grades and reprice it between the ET and CTX..... so start saving now. I think with the CTX they are trying to stream line their tech. I hate to see prices increase.... but if they can do more than add a button for the price im in. The Xcal has to be the no. 1 selling water machine, i dont see it going anywhere. If it does with no replacement.... man what would a used one go for?

Dew

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I talked to my contact inside Minelab management this evening, I asked about the chance the Excal will be retired. I was told there was no chance the Excal will be retired, in fact I was told that the excal will be here for a long, long time to come.

 

[GreenMeanie]

I hope it does go that way and they make a new water detector.

 

[Sir Gala Clad]

I am not so sure!

I agree with you (bigscoop) on the price advantage of buying multiple Xcals verses one CTX-3030 as THINGS ARE NOW.
In fact, I truly wish that I had bought a second Xcal with the smaller 8 inch coil to work the first drop and heavily trashed areas instead of the more flexible and capable Sovereign GT which I later learned will not be produced after December. I was astonished to find that the supply of accessories from second party sources has already dried up.

If second party manufacturers have had to discontinue making accessories as they are dependent on Minelab for components such as the V clip to mount a meter on the adjustable shaft, just think how difficult it will be for you to get needed parts - the Xcals will be non supportable in only a few years after Mine Lab stops production on them.
I now truly regret not buying a second Xcal with the smaller 8 inch coil for working the first drop and heavy trash areas verses the Sovereign GT which can easily be destroyed by water mist or salt spray and will be non repairable in only a few years.
I doubt that Minelab is making a lot of money from the repairs, as they have to eat the cost to repair detectors returned under warranty. If they were making a ton on money off of the repairs Xcals, it's logical that the repair of Sovereigns, which are easier to repair and do not have to be pressure tested would even be a more lucrative business. So why discontinue this source of revenue?
I am sure that advocates and aficionados of the Fisher CZ21 will disagree that the Xcal is king of the beach machines. Fisher offers a viable proven alternative for (dry sand, wet sand, shallow water and diving) and is better suited for dry land than the Xcal with different engineering tradeoffs at a lower price point.
Because of its CURRENT high price the CTX-3030 is not even a consideration. I definitely agree with Sandman's statement "The CTX 3030 is way over priced for the average treasure hunter"

 

[Sir Gala Clad]

I am baffled as to why Sovereign sales have fallen so low, that it will go out of production?
Almost everything I have read recommends the Sovereign over the Excalibur. E.G it is cheaper to purchase and maintain, has better tonal quality and is more powerful than the Excalibur and it is more flexible as you can change coils. head sets and you used to be able to purchase probes and meters for it.

Further BBS technology which is used by both the Sovereign and the Excalibur works better at the beach than FBS technology.

I have seen far more dry sand and wet sand detecting at the beach than shallow water hunting,
and I suspect that there are far more shallow water hunters than divers?
I find it hard to believe that Minelab is not able to sell enough Sovereigns to keep the production line open.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Sov GT will be serviceable for the next 5 years at the least. They are sold with 3 year warranty, production ends in Dec 2012. At the end of the 3 year warranty they will still be service by Minelab as long as parts are available. I own a Sov GT, I have no concerns what so ever for it not being serviced by Minelab for at least the next 5-7 years and in fact many years after that..

The Excals are not going away, I have personally talked to Minelab about it, the Excal is a major revenue source they have no plans to end its production. As far as service on it if and when it does end, Minelab still does repair work on the original old Sword Excals and they are out of production since 1998. 14 years later and you can still get most service work done on it.......

The sword was released in 1993, it went out of production in 1998 with the release of the Excal 1000 and 800... they are still being repaired by Minelab in most cases.
The Excal 1000 and 800 were released in 1998 blue head phones, followed by yellow headphones and went out of production in 2008 (I believe) when the Excal II was released..... They are still being repaired as well...........

I know people who use the CZ21, one of their complaints on it is if you sweep slow it skips over gold and other good targets, it will see it on a fast sweep, but go right over it on a slow sweep... I know other hunters who used the CZ series for years and then tried the Excal and haven't gone back to the CZ.

A major advantage of the Excal over its competitors is its ability to tell you when your target is iron and that is a major advantage....

 

[bigscoop]

Yesterday the beach was so cluttered with targets it was common to have multiple iron and good targets under the coil at the same time, the Excal easily handled it.

When equipped with a large coil (WOT/SEF) it can hunt as deep as most PI machines, while still providing the ability to discriminate at decent depths.

The Excal "can be setup" so you can exchange coils.

The 3030 provides too much drag problems in the water, it's design will not allow for the reduction of these major concerns. Certainly not an all day machine for the water hunter. It's just not a practical water machine.

Given the above I think the success of the 3030 is going to be decided by above water hunters who like extra bells and whistles and don't mind paying for them. It's a lot of money to pay for a machine when it's only real beach advantage is the ability to skip pennies.

 

[Sir Gala Clad]

I believe that ;this would be called a hybrid bigscoop. It's feasibility would depend upon how much of the circuitry would be common to both modes ( balanced induction at VLF frequencies and Pulse Induction), being able to package it in same size or slightly larger housing, keeping the weight down, being reliable and being affordable to purchase and maintain.

As this would be a high end detector, I assume that you would generate a continuous square wave, at a fixed center frequency (rich in harmonics) and use resonant filters/signal processing controlled by firm ware to create a multifrequency VLF detector. You should be able to use much of this same circuitry with different firmware for the pulse mode.

You want to be able to use the same search coil so that you can switch between VLF and PI manually or automatically while hunting. This could be done in software or by a rotary 3 position switch/ 3 toggle switches (VLF, PI, mixed mode).

For use on dry land, you would want the center frequency of the square wave oscillator variable depending on ground balance for a greater frequency range.

I believe that not only can such a hybrid be developed, but that it would be a true disruptive/revolutionary technology (not a hyped one) if it's price is affordable to the majority of serious treasure hunters.

I for sure would sell everything I have, except a back up VLF detector (I don't have a PI) and buy one.

 

[bigscoop]

I believe that ;this would be called a hybrid bigscoop. It's feasibility would depend upon how much of the circuitry would be common to both modes ( balanced induction at VLF frequencies and Pulse Induction), being able to package it in same size or slightly larger housing, keeping the weight down, being reliable and being affordable to purchase and maintain.

As this would be a high end detector, I assume that you would generate a continuous square wave, at a fixed center frequency (rich in harmonics) and use resonant filters/signal processing controlled by firm ware to create a multifrequency VLF detector. You should be able to use much of this same circuitry with different firmware for the pulse mode.

You want to be able to use the same search coil so that you can switch between VLF and PI manually or automatically while hunting. This could be done in software or by a rotary 3 position switch/ 3 toggle switches (VLF, PI, mixed mode).

For use on dry land, you would want the center frequency of the square wave oscillator variable depending on ground balance for a greater frequency range.

I believe that not only can such a hybrid be developed, but that it would be a true disruptive/revolutionary technology (not a hyped one) if it's price is affordable to the majority of serious treasure hunters.

I for sure would sell everything I have, except a back up VLF detector (I don't have a PI) and buy one.

I'm betting it's already being looked into. Micro technology is making this type of thing possible now so, why not?

 

[Sir Gala Clad]

I would say marketing concerns are what would hold the development of a switchable mixed mode (multi freq balanced induction, pulse induction, auto switch dependent of ground tracking) metal detector up. I earlier referred to this as a disruptive technology as it would cannibalize the sales of present production models. We have already seen the sovereign go out of production because sales are higher on the Excalibur. This would be much worse, especially if they hopped the center frequency dependent on ground tracking and added a display.
If it is developed, It would mostly be done by a small aerospace company to diversify its business or by aerospace engineers who want to form their own business. The design of a metal detector is relatively simple in comparison to the design of complex avionics/weapon systems and they have experience with mixed mode applications.