WARD BASED HIS STORY ON ORIGINAL "THE BEALE PAPERS" PUBLISHED 1850

[ECS]

The Benjamin Cooper Expedition began ,May 1822.
James Pursley is mentioned in Kit Carson's memoirs as being domiciled in Santa Fe.
Franklin, I do respect your knowledge and research on the Beale story, but all this is speculation, making actual people and events fit into Beale tale,... but what is lacking is any, even slight, documentation to connect the Beale Paper story to these people and events.

 

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[ECS]

Do you think two expeditions could leave St. Louis, MO in mid-May 1822 with 10 to 15 men in the party?

There were many "expeditions" that departed from St Louis in the 1820's- mountain men, fur trappers, and funded Federal discovery and mapping expeditions.
Many probably were outfitted for supplies at the Kennerly's Mercantile in St Louis-George Hancock Kennerly was part of the extended Risqué family(which also included J B Ward), the J B Risqué who had a duel with Thomas Beale.
Almost all of these expeditions have been accounted for, in government records, business transactions, diaries. memoirs, and family genealogical records and sites.
The only mention of the expedition that is in the 1885 Beale Papers, the ONLY account of this expedition,ONLY appears in the 1885 Beale job pamphlet.
On this thread, almost all the theories concerning the Beale Papers have been explored and dissected, and no matter what the theory, there has been NO solid evidence or documentation found that can prove that anything in the BEALE PAPERS actually occurred.
A lot of possibilities, could be's, maybe, but NO hard concrete connection that proclaims that this treasure story is true.

 

[bigscoop]

Do you think two expeditions could leave St. Louis, MO in mid-May 1822 with 10 to 15 men in the party?

Sure. Why not? Almost immediately after the Adams Onis Treaty there were parties trying to discover new passage/trade routes to/from the Pacific. Girard, for one, was extremely driven to discover that route. This route had the potential to save them the costly and time consuming navigation around South America. On top of this land speculators also started developing schemes. Suddenly Americans could freely pass where they couldn't freely pass before and expansion became a very hotly debated and pursued issue. May would have been the perfect time to leave St. Louis in pursuit of these efforts.

 

[ECS]

There were other Thomas Beale's actually I have found 13 living at the right time...

Yet none of the "Thomas Beales" truly match the Thomas Beale of the 1885 Beale Papers.

 

[bigscoop]

It all comes back to there being a complete lack of supporting evidence to any of it. The only evidence that exist is what men have created and molded to fit the tale, which isn't evidence at all, just a lot of smoke and daggers that help to fuel the legend and keep the hope/illusion alive.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

It all comes back to there being a complete lack of supporting evidence to any of it. The only evidence that exist is what men have created and molded to fit the tale, which isn't evidence at all, just a lot of smoke and daggers that help to fuel the legend and keep the hope/illusion alive.

I see, so Franklin is making stuff up again?

 

[TN_Guest1523]

I always liked a good engineering challenge.......lets dance

In the decoded cipher that I have done that is who he said he was.
Just quoting him.

 

[bigscoop]

I see, so Franklin is making stuff up again?

I didn't say that. What is being pointed out is that none of it can be connected to the Beale pamphlet in any way whatsoever, so why is it being connected? You're obviously a true believer and so you're going to continue to believe in the tale regardless of the lack of supporting evidence to any of it, and that's fine and you will continue to create your own Beale story. But the problem arises when you try to establish what you have created. In the end that same total lack of supporting evidence will exist, just as it always has.

 

[ECS]

... the problem arises when you try to establish what you have created. In the end that same total lack of supporting evidence will exist, just as it always has.

The posts on this thread demonstrate that very point. With all the theories and opinions and the speculative and circumstantial evidence applied to support a given theory, NONE can be directly link to the story in the Beale Papers- that story always remains to stand alone, outside of any and all historical events.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

You're obviously a true believer and so you're going to continue to believe

That tends to happen after decoding the cipher. Then reading what Captain Beale said. Kinda sets ones mind to the truth.

 

[ECS]

... Almost immediately after the Adams Onis Treaty there were parties trying to discover new passage/trade routes to/from the Pacific... Suddenly Americans could freely pass where they couldn't freely pass before and expansion became a very hotly debated and pursued issue...

US Army Colonel Henry Inman also wrote a journal concerning the early expeditions of the west during this time period. Inman mentions James Pursley, but NO mention of Beale or of a Beale Expedition.
THE OLD SANTA FE TRAIL by COLONEL HENRY INMAN - Full Text Free Book (Part 1/8)

 

[ECS]

That tends to happen after decoding the cipher. Then reading what Captain Beale said. Kinda sets ones mind to the truth.

Considering that there is NO mention of a Beale Expedition outside of the 1885 BEALE PAPERS, "what Captain Beale said" may well be the words of Ward, Sherman, Hutter, and Guggenheimer.

 

[ECS]

In the decoded cipher that I have done that is who he said he was.
Just quoting him.

...and you are quoting whom?
Which one of the 13 Beales alive at the time period who can be made to fit into the Beale Papers storyline?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Considering that there is NO mention of a Beale Expedition outside of the 1885 BEALE PAPERS, "what Captain Beale said" may well be the words of Ward, Sherman, Hutter, and Guggenheimer.

OR! A DIFFERENT "Treasure", NOT connected with the Beale PAPERS. Capt. Thomas Beale, SENIOR may have had a chance to bury something, down in New Orleans; Jean Lafitte may have been "involved"... AND! Capt. Paschal Buford of US Artillery in the War of 1812... dunno. Andy Jackson would... Gen. Andrew Jackson had a BIG old parade here in Lynchburg, Va. in 1814, after the War of 1812. He "supped" with Thomas Jefferson, who was at Poplar Forest, and they were "entertained" at one of the Inns here (Western Inn ...?); gotta get my info on that...

 

[TN_Guest1523]

...and you are quoting whom?
Which one of the 13 Beales alive at the time period who can be made to fit into the Beale Papers storyline?

13 Beales alive at the time period. List them all please and I can tell you.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

Considering that there is NO mention of a Beale Expedition outside of the 1885 BEALE PAPERS, "what Captain Beale said" may well be the words of Ward, Sherman, Hutter, and Guggenheimer.

Morriss had them till 1862? then his Lawyer to ? then they were printed 1885?
So we have a Big Secret till 1885. It looks as if there was help in printing them. And if I wanted to keep it a secret I may work with family on all of it
You guy seem to mix up about 15 different things on here that have not one thing to do with the Beale Papers.
Get it over with and wright a book or something. You can name it Beale Fiction .

 

[TN_Guest1523]

Considering that there is NO mention of a Beale Expedition outside of the 1885 BEALE PAPERS, "what Captain Beale said" may well be the words of Ward, Sherman, Hutter, and Guggenheimer.

Morriss had them till 1862? then his Lawyer to ? then they were printed 1885?
So we have a Big Secret till 1885. It looks as if there was help in printing them. And if I wanted to keep it a secret I may work with family on all of it
You guy seem to mix up about 15 different things on here that have not one thing to do with the Beale Papers.
Get it over with and wright a book or something. You can name it Beale Fiction .

 

[TN_Guest1523]

Considering that there is NO mention of a Beale Expedition outside of the 1885 BEALE PAPERS, "what Captain Beale said" may well be the words of Ward, Sherman, Hutter, and Guggenheimer.

Do you think that they were on an adventure or they went for the gold ?
Think about it !
If they went for the gold do you think they would tell a lot of folks what they were doing.
Captain Beale of New Orleans. His wife who's Father was the Governor of Baton Rouge under the Spanish. Beale had maps of were he was going from his In-Laws.

 

[Eldo]

Regardless of what story was told, and encoded in 1 and 3,

the finder still must have the full map sequencing laid from dozens of clues derived from the letters as well. The Beale 1 and 3 are truly 'non-entities' when seeking a location. Maps and markers were used.

In which this entire trail is laid out to be charted as a Confederate Mapping System would be made, and using symbols and wording that a Land Clerk / Real Estate Agent would know about, having served in the areas during the Civil War.

It is also my belief that what you are finding from an actual decoding system, is another lure to shift attention to other older associates who were the founders of this order, but were not the command of this operation. That's what you are finding in the decipherment, which may be relevant to the story of who was in the past, but clearly not allowing even the slightest hope of finding the 2 actual troves.

My full description can be read here under the Latest Developments and Discoveries.....Beale ciphers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Remember though Jean, this information is Classified as Super Super Top Secret......For Your Eyes Only.....Laf Laf Laf...! That's why I put it on Wiki

Just kidding Jean (shares ginger root beer)

......but seriously, are you going to go on the show??

I do hope to see the actual cyphers laid out one day, along with the old storylines they made into the neverending quest of the "Beale Codes"... !

 

[ECS]

Do you think that they were on an adventure or they went for the gold ?...
If they went for the gold do you think they would tell a lot of folks what they were doing.
Captain Beale of New Orleans. His wife who's Father was the Governor of Baton Rouge under the Spanish. Beale had maps of were he was going from his In-Laws.

This is a prime example of making random facts fit ones theory.
Do you have any evidence to show that Carlos de Grandpre provided maps to his son in law, Thomas Beale, of New Orleans, or is it just fanciful speculation on your part to fit your theory?
An "expedition" the size mentioned in the Beale Papers, would have been noticed and talked about, either by those who provisioned the group, or by those who noticed Beale was not around to run his plantation, or hotel.
You realize, that Celeste Boucher de Grandpre Beale kept a diary- guess what is obvious by its omission.