WARD BASED HIS STORY ON ORIGINAL "THE BEALE PAPERS" PUBLISHED 1850

[ECS]

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My full description can be read here under the Latest Developments and Discoveries.....Beale ciphers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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What is missing from your theory is a connection to James Beverly Ward who copyrighted the 1885 Beale Papers.
Without that connection, the theory is pure hopeful speculation.

 

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[Eldo]

Again I have already stated that there was no connection to that actual person, and that name was used as a cover front for the delivery of a document, by an 'Agent'

Dont assume too much before you have something to argue on your behalf. It is well known that there are original lost versions of the Beale, and we are using coded copies. I dont use the numbers, but the other facts in correlation with their trumped up histerical storyline of "hunters after hides out west"

I have not seen much actual history thrown around stating Ward existed there in the Bedford area as a credible person, other than being registered as a resident at Sarah Morris's house, or something vague in that manner, and a Mason of that name was known to join a lodge in the area.....

An easily replicated identity to be used as the front in delivery of a mesage, using an unknown identity of a random local as a cover.

To be honest, what you have said, really leaves your theory pretty dry that there is supposed to be a connection to exact Ward you claim to be holding evidence of...

where is your argument other than in a short claim in favor of a single fantasy character, you claim to have found?

 

[bigscoop]

That tends to happen after decoding the cipher. Then reading what Captain Beale said. Kinda sets ones mind to the truth.

This is the common mindset that continues to provide the illusion of solution. It's like a five step program where the fifth step never materializes. People have been going up and back down those same first four rows of steps for 130 years.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

This is a prime example of making random facts fit ones theory.
Do you have any evidence to show that Carlos de Grandpre provided maps to his son in law, Thomas Beale, of New Orleans, or is it just fanciful speculation on your part to fit your theory?
An "expedition" the size mentioned in the Beale Papers, would have been noticed and talked about, either by those who provisioned the group, or by those who noticed Beale was not around to run his plantation, or hotel.
You realize, that Celeste Boucher de Grandpre Beale kept a diary- guess what is obvious by its omission.

I am here in Louisiana were there are a lot of documents with her name on them. Yet I have not seen nor heard of such a diary. I think you are blowing smoke. There is no way you can prove there is one. Just another fiction to prove your point.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

This is a prime example of making random facts fit ones theory.
Do you have any evidence to show that Carlos de Grandpre provided maps to his son in law, Thomas Beale, of New Orleans, or is it just fanciful speculation on your part to fit your theory?
An "expedition" the size mentioned in the Beale Papers, would have been noticed and talked about, either by those who provisioned the group, or by those who noticed Beale was not around to run his plantation, or hotel.
You realize, that Celeste Boucher de Grandpre Beale kept a diary- guess what is obvious by its omission.

 

[ECS]

View attachment 1141199

The transfer of the plantation was the cause of several lawsuits between the widow Beale, Beale Jr and Chloe Delancy. This has been covered many times.

 

[ECS]

Again I have already stated that there was no connection to that actual person, and that name was used as a cover front for the delivery of a document, by an 'Agent'...

I have not seen much actual history thrown around stating Ward existed there in the Bedford area as a credible person, other than being registered as a resident at Sarah Morris's house, or something vague in that manner, and a Mason of that name was known to join a lodge in the area.....

An easily replicated identity to be used as the front in delivery of a mesage, using an unknown identity of a random local as a cover.

To be honest, what you have said, really leaves your theory pretty dry that there is supposed to be a connection to exact Ward you claim to be holding evidence of...

where is your argument other than in a short claim in favor of a single fantasy character, you claim to have found?

I will make this simple for you comprehension.
James Beverly Risque, who was in a duel with Thomas Beale over a slight to Julia Hancock was James Beverly Ward's grandfather. Robert Morriss was Ward's uncle by marriage. John Sherman, who printed the 1885 Beale Papers was a cousin of Ward, and owned the LYNCHBERG VIRGINIAN, the only newspaper that advertised the Beale job pamphlet.
James Beverly Ward applied for and received the copyright from the LIBRARY OF CONGRESS for the Beale Papers.
Ward was also related to the various branches of the Risqué extended family- Hutter, Kennerly, Otey, Hancock, and the Bufords.
Julia Hancock, whom the duel was fought, married William Clark, of Lewis and Clark.
Ward is far from being a "fantasy character".
If you have read this thread, you would be aware of the several origins of events contained in the Beale story, some from journals, some from events that occurred to the Risqué extended family members.
The 1885 Beale Papers are an eclectic potpourri pot-boiler with a published purpose of profit.

 

[ECS]

I am here in Louisiana were there are a lot of documents with her name on them. Yet I have not seen nor heard of such a diary. I think you are blowing smoke. There is no way you can prove there is one. Just another fiction to prove your point.

I am not the one here posting"another fiction to prove" a point.

 

[Eldo]

I will make this simple for you comprehension.
James Beverly Ward, who was in a duel with Thomas Beale over a slight to Julia Hancock was James Beverly Ward's grandfather. Robert Morriss was Ward's uncle by marriage. John Sherman, who printed the 1885 Beale Papers was a cousin of Ward, and owned the LYNCHBERG VIRGINIAN, the only newspaper that advertised the Beale job pamphlet.
James Beverly Ward applied for and received the copyright from the LIBRARY OF CONGRESS for the Beale Papers.
Ward was also related to the various branches of the Risqué extended family- Hutter, Kennerly, Otey, Hancock, and the Bufords.
Julia Hancock, whom the duel was fought, married William Clark, of Lewis and Clark.
Ward is far from being a "fantasy character".
If you have read this thread, you would be aware of the several origins of events contained in the Beale story, some from journals, some from events that occurred to the Risqué extended family members.
The 1885 Beale Papers are an eclectic potpourri pot-boiler with a published purpose of profit.

And I will make it even simpler for you...yes Ward is a fantasy character as much as the tales that are crafted within it....you said so yourself, its a dressed up tale using some local guys and gals to play the roles.

and now you are flip flopping still after the original statements you made, denying the Beale leads to two troves.

but there is a Ward now all of a sudden, and they made up the whole thing for 50 cents. But he isnt a fantasy character...no he's "Real"

I read the thread and re-read the thread....you flip flop all over the place asserting your collection of history, when a dozen others also show you their history lessons, yet you still wont budge

And you still deny that there is the Arizona connection, even though there are previous Beale's galavanting out west that are mentioned in argument against your theory on the first page, of your own post.

I read it myself.....there is clearly a group going out west at those times at the orders of the KGC, and there are also some interesting similarities in these works you said.....

But why would someone who was making a fortune selling pamphlets, do so using his own name to lure someone to an empty trove.....?

No these names are crafted as much as the whole puzzle is crafted around some other similar tales....used to mask their hints, clues, and other forms of ciphers.....

Funny you said miles and dates , in reference to the hidden distances you found similarities to in the number 1817......

did you ever try to find out how far that is from Virginia and where it winds up being.....??

If you did you would have found the locality of the Vault then, at least the AZ ones from where they got their stashes,

But you didnt even try....why overlook the obvious ECS?

Does the History of the men tell you which way to turn to locate the two troves?

You are accomplishing the feat of gathering more books on a shelf and then arguing about them regardless of who wrote them?

I think you have denied yourself the chance to see the truth that there are crafted tales interwoven into these affairs and somehow they knew exactly who to use as a front for their operations.

In fact there were so many cities that the Federal Investigators had to travel to, in order to catch Reavis after he was caught planting evidence around the country to prove he owned these mines and he was clearly Confederate KGC as well.

So who is to say that these characters from the Beale Codes, the Second Editions, were merely rewritten and altered versions of the originals.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

The transfer of the plantation was the cause of several lawsuits between the widow Beale, Beale Jr and Chloe Delancy. This has been covered many times.

Celeste Boucher de Grandpre Beale kept a diary

 

[TN_Guest1523]

View attachment 1141199

Those who noticed Beale was not around to run his plantation, or hotel. Was the son jr who ran them.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I will make this simple for you comprehension.
James Beverly Ward, who was in a duel with Thomas Beale over a slight to Julia Hancock was James Beverly Ward's grandfather. Robert Morriss was Ward's uncle by marriage. John Sherman, who printed the 1885 Beale Papers was a cousin of Ward, and owned the LYNCHBERG VIRGINIAN, the only newspaper that advertised the Beale job pamphlet.
James Beverly Ward applied for and received the copyright from the LIBRARY OF CONGRESS for the Beale Papers.
Ward was also related to the various branches of the Risqué extended family- Hutter, Kennerly, Otey, Hancock, and the Bufords.
Julia Hancock, whom the duel was fought, married William Clark, of Lewis and Clark.
Ward is far from being a "fantasy character".
If you have read this thread, you would be aware of the several origins of events contained in the Beale story, some from journals, some from events that occurred to the Risqué extended family members.
The 1885 Beale Papers are an eclectic potpourri pot-boiler with a published purpose of profit.

It was James Beverly RISQUE (grandfather of James Beverly Ward), who had the duel with Thomas Beale, SENIOR in Fincastle, Va. We have WRITTEN, historical RECORDS of James Beverly WARD in Campbell County/Lynchburg, Va. Court-houses, etc.

 

[ECS]

...

And you still deny that there is the Arizona connection, even though there are previous Beale's galavanting out west that are mentioned in argument against your theory on the first page, of your own post.

I read it myself.....there is clearly a group going out west at those times at the orders of the KGC, and there are also some interesting similarities in these works you said.....
No these names are crafted as much as the whole puzzle is crafted around some other similar tales....used to mask their hints, clues, and other forms of ciphers...
In fact there were so many cities that the Federal Investigators had to travel to, in order to catch Reavis after he was caught planting evidence around the country to prove he owned these mines and he was clearly Confederate KGC as well.
So who is to say that these characters from the Beale Codes, the Second Editions, were merely rewritten and altered versions of the originals.

E F Beale,not Thomas Beale, was in Arizona, leading the U S ARMY CAMEL CORPS, an experiment for exploring the Southwest desert, conceived by U S Sec of War, Jefferson Davis, who was KGC.
Maybe they the "unknown author" left out the camels in the "rewritten and altered Second Editions".
Raevis did serve under the Confederacy, but there is no evidence to conclude Reavis was KGC, except for haphazard wild speculation.
As for an altered and rewritten "Second Edition" of the BEALE PAPERS, where is the evidence for this statement?

 

[ECS]

Celeste Boucher de Grandpre Beale kept a diary

Yes, she did.

 

[releventchair]

The Jefferson Davis connection did not help support camel use after the war. Reavis's behavior during the war would keep those wanting to provide for the Southern cause to keep him at arms length from knowledge of hidden wealth ,let alone physical custody. Of all the people to trust with such knowledge..... Reavis one heck of a gamble,and a poor one. Davis would have been far more honorable and lest suspect in comparison ,by all political groups despite being watched by all..
U.S. Army Camel Corps

E F Beale,not Thomas Beale, was in Arizona, leading the U S ARMY CAMEL CORPS, an experiment for exploring the Southwest desert, conceived by U S Sec of War, Jefferson Davis, who was KGC.
Maybe they the "unknown author" left out the camels in the "rewritten and altered Second Editions".
Raevis did serve under the Confederacy, but there is no evidence to conclude Reavis was KGC, except for haphazard wild speculation.
As for an altered and rewritten "Second Edition" of the BEALE PAPERS, where is the evidence for this statement?

Would the KGC even have trusted Reavis if he were a member?A man who switched sides of the war... a known swindler on a huge scale.

The Baron of Arizona

 

[bigscoop]

Again, the bottom line that nobody wants to accept......pick your theory of choice and it will lack even one small shed of supporting evidence directly connecting it to the Beale pamphlet in any way whatsoever. But you will read/hear what all of these different fantasy theories want you to believe. If we look through all of these threads, all of the post here on Tnet and other websites and forums, we still can't find that one piece of supporting evidence to support that the Beale pamphlet was anything other then a dime novel. I think it's time folks really step back to absorb this fact and the most logical reason for it.

 

[releventchair]

Five dime novel.

 

[ECS]

... If we look through all of these threads, all of the post here on Tnet and other websites and forums, we still can't find that one piece of supporting evidence to support that the Beale pamphlet was anything other then a dime novel. I think it's time folks really step back to absorb this fact and the most logical reason for it.

Would Beale walk a mile for a camel?
That question has never been addressed.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

Yes, she did.

Did it tell you that the only probate for Captain Thomas Beale was in 1829. Have documentation.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

Yes, she did.

I think you are tripping hard on something>