Beale PAPERS... just a Dime Store Novel by John William Sherman...?

[Rebel - KGC]

ANYONE have any more info on this "theory"...?

 

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[ECS]

John William Sherman's Dime Novels

Out with General Crook-Out West-1883
From New York To San Francisco-1884
Irish Monte Cristo-1888
A Chicago Boy-1889
Crookstaff The Ranger-1890
The Boy Surveyor-1890
The Boy Treasure Hunters-1890
The Winged Witch-1893
The Lost Balloon-1893

 

[bigscoop]

When we look at Sherman's M.O. things remain pretty much the same, just local advertising and marketing, codes and ciphers and treasure. The only difference is that Ward is the agent and copyright owner of the Beale Pamphlet, a circumstance that might be easily explained in a couple of different ways. Could be that Ward had loaned Sherman money with the copyright being collateral against that loan. Or it could simply be that Ward agreed to be the agent and copyright owner so the attention would be deflected away from Sherman. Or it could have easily been the product of both these possibilities. But when we look at Sherman's writing history and the means by which he advertised and marketed his other works then everything falls in line with the publishing of the Beale pamphlet.

Keep in mind that what ECS posted is fact and that it isn't commonly included in the Beale Pamphlet legend and lore because it strongly discredits the likelihood that the pamphlet was anything else other then another of Sherman's dime novels, something that threatens to suck the life out of the legend and lore that has been widely marketed and fueled by so-called researchers and authors looking to make money on the tale. Just look at the opportunities that have come along in recent times simply because of all the hype and promotion. So why is it that even today these same authors & researchers are refusing to publicly acknowledge this factual history regarding Sherman's writing history and the similarities that exist? The answer is simple.....$$$$$.The Beale legend means a lot to the local structure so why detail anything that could damage this community asset and reduce those potential future opportunities.

The simple truth is that all of the "real evidence" points to the Beale pamphlet being just another in a long line of fictional dime novels.

 

[ECS]

Did you notice the four year gap between his first dime novel to his second-between 1884-1888?

 

[bigscoop]

Did you notice the four year gap between his first dime novel to his second-between 1884-1888?

Sure did. Makes one wonder if this wasn't due to his likely Beale pamphlet project.

 

[cw0909]

ANYONE have any more info on this "theory"...?

reb ive looked into this over the yrs, maybe ill give it another go, as there seems to
be more info online now, 1st link is what i found a few yrs ago, and John William Sherman
is said to be a pen name for,St. George (Henry) Rathbone (1854-1938), Rathbone
had many pen names, ive never read anywhere, that he said he used JWS

if the Beale Papers are a story or an attempt of ward and co. to try and sell their own
dime novel,story paper, ive never found anything along that line of thinking, the 4th
link has a lot of info and the pamphlets up now, yrs ago it was only a list, there was
another link like the Standford 4th link, but i cant remember which unvi. it was now
it only had lists at the time too.

Sherman
Person - Sherman, John - The Dime Novel Bibliography
follow links from Sherman to Rathbone
Person - Rathborne, St. George, 1854-1938 - The Dime Novel Bibliography
St. George Henry Rathborne
ST. GEORGE RATHBORNE

all about pennydreadfuls.story papers,dime novels
Welcome to Dime Novels

 

[bigscoop]

The theory of Sherman/Ward isn't a new theory, nor is the information new.

 

[ECS]

The theory of Sherman/Ward isn't a new theory, nor is the information new.

Sherman was committed to Western State Hospital in Stauton, Virginia where he died Dec 29, 1938.
St George Rathbone died Dec 16, 1938 in Newark , New Jersey.
Two different men- but which one wrote the dime novels?

 

[bigscoop]

Sherman was committed to Western State Hospital in Stauton, Virginia where he died Dec 29, 1938.
St George Rathbone died Dec 16, 1938 in Newark , New Jersey.
Two different men- but which one wrote the dime novels?

Let me confirm with a qualified source before I try to explain what is believed to be the case on this. As I recall this was looked into pretty deeply a while back but I can't remember just exactly what was determined. Give me a bit.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Sherman was committed to Western State Hospital in Stauton, Virginia where he died Dec 29, 1938.
St George Rathbone died Dec 16, 1938 in Newark , New Jersey.
Two different men- but which one wrote the dime novels?

He DID die in 1938 (1859-1938), and is buried in Roanoke, Va.; "google" John William Sherman (1858/9-1938) - Find A Grave Memorial...
MORE later! Western State Hospital in Staunton, Va. - BIPOLAR Diagnosis (Manic-Depressive)

 

[Rebel - KGC]

reb ive looked into this over the yrs, maybe ill give it another go, as there seems to
be more info online now, 1st link is what i found a few yrs ago, and John William Sherman
is said to be a pen name for,St. George (Henry) Rathbone (1854-1938), Rathbone
had many pen names, ive never read anywhere, that he said he used JWS

if the Beale Papers are a story or an attempt of ward and co. to try and sell their own
dime novel,story paper, ive never found anything along that line of thinking, the 4th
link has a lot of info and the pamphlets up now, yrs ago it was only a list, there was
another link like the Standford 4th link, but i cant remember which unvi. it was now
it only had lists at the time too.

Sherman
Person - Sherman, John - The Dime Novel Bibliography
follow links from Sherman to Rathbone
Person - Rathborne, St. George, 1854-1938 - The Dime Novel Bibliography
St. George Henry Rathborne
ST. GEORGE RATHBORNE

all about pennydreadfuls.story papers,dime novels
Welcome to Dime Novels

YEP! It does appear that he used JOHN SHERMAN as Pseudonym; Person - Sherman, John - The Dime Novel Bibliography

 

[Rebel - KGC]

THIS... is interesting. Page24

RHG lives in Roanoke, Va., I think.

 

[bigscoop]

THIS... is interesting. Page24

RHG lives in Roanoke, Va., I think.

This page pretty much sums up the conclusion/evidence. While it isn't absolute in its conclusion it still presents extremely strong evidence in support that Sherman wrote the BP and then used the paper to promote that fictional publication. Sherman was also in dire need of money which might also (likely) explain the deception and his using Ward to deflect the attention away from himself. Also, the amount of ad space would have been quite expensive to anyone other then the owner/editor of the paper, an investment that wouldn't have been practical for anyone else simply to promote a writing for local sales.

As for the Rathbone conundrum, I think the locality of publishing house used for the other pamphlets will isolate which ones JWS penned and marketed. The J.W. Sherman in question never got beyond local promotion/marketing.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

The theory of Sherman/Ward isn't a new theory, nor is the information new.

WRONG! RHG has up-dated HIS web-site... see above. Thank you, RHG... for up-dating your web-site with NEW info about "John Sherman"/St. George (Henry) Rathbone.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Sherman was committed to Western State Hospital in Stauton, Virginia where he died Dec 29, 1938.
St George Rathbone died Dec 16, 1938 in Newark , New Jersey.
Two different men- but which one wrote the dime novels?

NEITHER...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Let me confirm with a qualified source before I try to explain what is believed to be the case on this. As I recall this was looked into pretty deeply a while back but I can't remember just exactly what was determined. Give me a bit.

Tell us, MORE!

 

[ECS]

... Sherman was also in dire need of money...

As for the Rathbone conundrum, I think the locality of publishing house used for the other pamphlets will isolate which ones JWS penned and marketed. The J.W. Sherman in question never got beyond local promotion/marketing.

The Rathbone site lists many more Sherman dime novels attributed to Sherman, then what I listed. It is quite possible that Sherman sold the listed novels to Rathbone as a "work for hire" for a minimal fee, and Rathbone having success with these adopted the Sherman pen name.
In the early days of sheetmusic publishing and tin pan alley, songwriters were paid a basic fee for their works as a "work for hire" with NO further royalties paid to the songwriter, the publisher reaping all the profits generated.

ASCAP was an organization formed to prevent this type of exploitation and protect intellectual properties.
Another thought, Rathbone appears to be rather prolific, he may have bought stories from several other writers and attached his or Sherman's name to these works.
In addition to being a printer and newspaper owner, John William Sherman wrote several plays and was an actor.

 

[bigscoop]

NEITHER...

Don't leap too quickly. The issue, due to the Rathbone conundrum, is that in some cases nobody is quite certain who should get credit for what? We do know that Sherman DID write several plays and that he even performed in some of them himself. We also know that ads for these plays appeared in his paper. What isn't known is Sherman's "exact" background with the production/publishing of dime novels. I think some of this could possibly be sorted out by listing the publishers of all the suspected novels. So maybe someone will undertake that project just to see if any of those suspected novels were produced/published locally? But as ECS pointed out, and from first hand experience, writers are always selling their work to other noted writers so who knows if any of this was taking place? But ghost writers do it everyday and some even do it exclusively for specific noted authors/publishers. It's actually a long standing practice.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Don't leap too quickly. The issue, due to the Rathbone conundrum, is that in some cases nobody is quite certain who should get credit for what? We do know that Sherman DID write several plays and that he even performed in some of them himself. We also know that ads for these plays appeared in his paper. What isn't known is Sherman's "exact" background with the production/publishing of dime novels. I think some of this could possibly be sorted out by listing the publishers of all the suspected novels. So maybe someone will undertake that project just to see if any of those suspected novels were produced/published locally? But as ECS pointed out, and from first hand experience, writers are always selling their work to other noted writers so who knows if any of this was taking place? But ghost writers do it everyday and some even do it exclusively for specific noted authors/publishers. It's actually a long standing practice.

"Hacks" for hire, eh...?

 

[bigscoop]

"Hacks" for hire, eh...?

Pretty much. A lot of the content that you see on websites, magazines, and even books come from unrecognized/uncredited sources. Today we see this a lot in flreelance writing and there are several sites online that still offer work for hire, these either offering flat fees or a few cents per word. In the end, however, these works will generally be owned by the end publisher of the work with the actual writer of the work never being realized. This is extremely common today and this same practice has been around for a long-long time. I recently sold an article under these same guidelines. I wrote the entire article but you'll never know that.