The Spoils of War & the Privelage of Title and Access

[bigscoop]

It is a well established fact that Joseph Bonaparte's American estate was adorned with various items from other countries, this including paintings, sculptures, furniture, etc. It is also a well established fact that at least on one occasion he arranged for the successful retrieval of priceless gems that were still hidden away overseas in a foreign land. It is also a well established fact that this same man and many of his closest and most trusted associates spent a great deal of time in Richmond Virginia and the surrounding area throughout the effected period. Is it odd that that these men, all of them established supporters of the alleged tyrant Napoleon Bonaparte, would be so welcomed and so easily accepted in the region if this alleged perception of tyranny really existed?

The point here is simply this....at the time of the alleged Beale deposits "world class" smugglers with a true purpose and cause existed in both the Richmond area and in the southwest and these same people also held a history for amassing and stashing and then smuggling the spoils of war and conflict. These entities with all of the skills, access, purpose, experience, cause, and connections were sitting right on the very doorstep to Bedford County Virgina, a region that apparently didn't see Napoleon Bonaparte or his supporters in the same eye of tyrant. Ironically, it is these very same people who offer us those two perfect chronological shipments of huge wealth in absolute accordance with the dates of deposits offered in the Beale Pamphlet.

Still think the story is all fiction? Perhaps, perhaps not. You'll just have to weight these facts and decide for yourself.

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

It is a well established fact that Joseph Bonaparte's American estate was adorned with various items from other countries, this including paintings, sculptures, furniture, etc. It is also a well established fact that at least on one occasion he arranged for the successful retrieval of priceless gems that were still hidden away overseas in a foreign land. It is also a well established fact that this same man and many of his closest and most trusted associates spent a great deal of time in Richmond Virginia and the surrounding area throughout the effected period. Is it odd that that these men, all of them established supporters of the alleged tyrant Napoleon Bonaparte, would be so welcomed and so easily accepted in the region if this alleged perception of tyranny really existed?

The point here is simply this....at the time of the alleged Beale deposits "world class" smugglers with a true purpose and cause existed in both the Richmond area and in the southwest and these same people also held a history for amassing and stashing and then smuggling the spoils of war and conflict. These entities with all of the skills, access, purpose, experience, cause, and connections were sitting right on the very doorstep to Bedford County Virgina, a region that apparently didn't see Napoleon Bonaparte or his supporters in the same eye of tyrant. Ironically, it is these very same people who offer us those two perfect chronological shipments of huge wealth in absolute accordance with the dates of deposits offered in the Beale Pamphlet.

Still think the story is all fiction? Perhaps, perhaps not. You'll just have to weight these facts and decide for yourself.

Richmond, Va., eh...? WHERE...?

 

[bigscoop]

The "exact" location in Richmond is still being investigated. However, we have located related letters that originated from Richmond, these exact points of origin still being investigated.

One of the biggest problems in searching through all of these paper resources is that we have no idea who all may have received letters from these same locations during the period. Unfortunately, a lot of this material is filed away by correspondence/names and since we do not have any idea of just how many different associates he may have had we have only been able to search for those names that are presently known to us.

 

[bigscoop]

I can tell you, in relation to Franklin's earlier suggestion that the two alleged shipments were possibly part of a military action, that James Monroe received at least two of these letters, and that in reply to one of these letters he, "utterly denies having made promises to make payments for services rendered." The question here, obviously, is why was James Monroe returning reply to Joseph Bonaparte in Richmond Virginia in 1829 and denying that some type of payment for services rendered had been agreed upon? What, "services rendered" is Joseph and Monroe arguing? Apparently Monroe was well aware of the services in question.

 

[bigscoop]

Additionally, keep in mind that this exchange in letters was in 1829, the same period when all of our suspects were in Richmond, and I quote, "concluding important business affairs." Now if that quote sounds vaguely familiar to the same claim that our unknown made in the pamphlet then it's probably because it is very familiar.

 

[bigscoop]

Now, with just what has been presented so far, let us consider a few of the elements.

First and foremost, what was the unknown looking for, or presenting, with his publication of the pamphlet? He was looking for hidden wealth and presenting what he claims is a story containing authentic statements.

Our unknown author also claims, ironically, that he had important business affairs in Richmond, this statement also carrying reference to the second year of the Civil War.

Now then, during this same second year of the Civil War the descendants of our suspects are also, once again, in Richmond Virgina under the pretense of purchasing property that is very likely to get caught up in the growing and uncertain conflict. Make any sense to you? I mean, who is looking to purchase property to possibly build their dream estate on the potential front lines of a growing and bloody battle? But, the newspapers certainly bought that explanation.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Now, with just what has been presented so far, let us consider a few of the elements.

First and foremost, what was the unknown looking for, or presenting, with his publication of the pamphlet? He was looking for hidden wealth and presenting what he claims is a story containing authentic statements.

Our unknown author also claims, ironically, that he had important business affairs in Richmond, this statement also carrying reference to the second year of the Civil War.

Now then, during this same second year of the Civil War the descendants of our suspects are also, once again, in Richmond Virgina under the pretense of purchasing property that is very likely to get caught up in the growing and uncertain conflict. Make any sense to you? I mean, who is looking to purchase property to possibly build their dream estate on the potential front lines of a growing and bloody battle? But, the newspapers certainly bought that explanation.

And your answer is... (on game show)?

 

[releventchair]

Napoleon Bonaparte.
Was willing to support the south IF England would.
Europe would not have shed a tear should democracy falter.
Russia seemed the Norths only sympathizer at times.
A very important part of politics was keeping Europe from intervening..and was worked hard.
What alternative to democracy was the common theme of the time? Who to run what?
One of the reasons Napoleon was willing,eager even to follow( follow does not mean he was wishy washy or not promoting the concept,just playing nice politically) England in support of the fracture of the States is significant to possible(!) future intentions.
That reason being, the civil war demonstrated not only the failure of democracy but that it voided the Monroe Doctrine.
Opening the door again to what was lost.
That would be a spoil of war for him and others indeed.

 

[bigscoop]

There are indications that a grand plan in the U.S. was in the works. One of the reasons Napoleon stated as cause for his rejecting proposed rescue plans was that he wasn't sure he wanted to come to America "to be a farmer." What is curious in this is that he was, for some unexplained reason, certain that under current circumstances that he would in fact be reduced to farming, this no doubt being related to the vine and olive colony grant. But what if he was sitting safely and comfortably on that island in waiting, patiently waiting for certain elements to take shape before he embarked on his escape to the Americas, these elements no longer requiring that he arrive in the states to be just a farmer? Those assigned the task of keeping him on that island reported that they fully expected his escape to be of little trouble given the huge amount of admiration he had gained on the island. So if this is true, which it must be given the source, why did he continue to resist proposed rescue plans?

When commenting on his possible escape Napoleon also made reference of the fear that he might just as easily find himself thrown overboard and at the bottom of the ocean if he were to make it aboard a ship, a fear of coming to America also including the possibility that he would always have to be looking over his shoulder. However, if certain elements were to take shape that allowed him to once again be surrounded by his most trusted associates and an army of loyal supporters then would this same fear still have existed?

There has always been great mystery in his refusing of proposed rescue plans but perhaps his refusals were simply a matter of current conditions and circumstances and maybe he was just waiting on other elements to take shape in the U.S.? Sure, this is all speculation, but it isn't without a certain amount of growing evidences to suggest such speculation.

 

[releventchair]

With the coals of Napoleonic ardor at a low glow,a force united to head a plan was not timely....yet.
Added persecution was enough that the remnants divided stood a better chance of continuation without the risk of all eggs in one basket.
Bonaparte Jr.,His uncle, his father, all distanced from one another. A risk assessment would make sense and was probably weighed, but all would not fall to one blow.
Former French colleagues in the U.S. represented any potential of reforming any standing army and could be keep watch on easy enough by all parties.
As could all Napoleonic ambitions be kept at a simmer by their opponents from their being divided.
Their ambitions ,whatever they were, insured a tentative peace with the states and a somewhat low profile in the political arena while awaiting further developments.

 

[ECS]

On April 3, 1861, Prince Napoleon Charles Paul Bonaparte and entourage visited President Lincoln at the White House and attended a State dinner. Bonaparte had nothing nice to say about Lincoln, commenting on his scruffy beard and hairy hands, and insulted Mary Lincoln's "French" dress.
Several days later he crossed into the Confederate States of America, and visited with CSA Gen Beauregard and viewed the Manassas Battlefield, site of the July 21, 1861 Confederate victory over the Union.
Observing the recent graves and the many still unburied corpses that covered the ground, Bonaparte congratulated Beauregard on his victory, comparing him to his famous forebear, and remarked on the fighting fierceness of the Confederate cavalry.

 

[releventchair]

So much for my low profile theory.

 

[bigscoop]

Make no mistake, this Bonaparte presence in the Richmond area didn't begin with the civil war and in fact it had roots long pre-dating the civil war. Joseph and others can be placed there, often for extended stays, almost immediately after their entry into this country.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Make no mistake, this Bonaparte presence in the Richmond area didn't begin with the civil war and in fact it had roots long pre-dating the civil war. Joseph and others can be placed there, often for extended stays, almost immediately after their entry into this country.

Well, the ONLY "French Presence" that I can find near Richmond, Va. is the French Huguenot Settlement outside of Richmond, Va. in Midlothian, Va. "area" ; very nice historic area. Wife & I went there b/c her father is descended from 'em in Maryland (settlement in Md., too.).

 

[bigscoop]

These individuals, who can probably be best described as opportunist, start showing up in Richmond and the surrounding area with continued regularity in 1817. As for the effected period detailed in the Beale pamphlet, these individuals maintained a consistent presence in Richmond up to at least 1830. Documents examined suggest with near certainty that these individuals were involved in some clandestine activity that even involved the U.S. government, but to what extent exactly is still unclear. The focus here, and the purpose of this thread, is to share with you that these individuals were well acquainted with military tactics, advanced planning, and the smuggling of contraband, with much of what had been smuggled into this country by this faction having been the result of the spoils of war in Europe or by way of access due to title. So very clearly these people were extremely educated, funded, and well organized in this trade and in the uncertain enterprise they were pursuing.

 

[ECS]

Make no mistake, this Bonaparte presence in the Richmond area didn't begin with the civil war and in fact it had roots long pre-dating the civil war. Joseph and others can be placed there, often for extended stays, almost immediately after their entry into this country.

Well Jerome Bonaparte and his American wife, Elizabeth Patterson Bonaparte , wrote several letters to President Monroe, and Elizabeth was friends with Dolly Madison, and carried on a correspondence.
The issue of the land given to Jerome by Elizabeth's father was not resolved until the 1860's, and was decided in Elizabeth's favor.

 

[Eldo]

amazing you would try to tie these men into the beale. thats a ton of history and not one theory that shows correlation to the beale. what it shows is that there seems to be something missing from your beale research and makes it seem even more a case of speculation and using history for a justification for including this in the whole story. the kgc and laffites affairs with napoleon were fairly different. it should be obvious that there was something going on with each of these two issues, but the players made into characters in the beale do not fit with french partisans. they relate to a single privateers affairs. the richmond connection was surely because of naval proximity to port for their movements.

beale will not be played like string quartet that is pieced together from another sheet of music. simply put beale is beale and lafitte is in bed with napoleon. imo based on the facts.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Well, the ONLY "French Presence" that I can find near Richmond, Va. is the French Huguenot Settlement outside of Richmond, Va. in Midlothian, Va. "area" ; very nice historic area. Wife & I went there b/c her father is descended from 'em in Maryland (settlement in Md., too.).

Manakin Town... site of old Monacan Nation Village (1700-1701); "google" Huguenot Society of Manakin.

 

[bigscoop]

amazing you would try to tie these men into the beale. thats a ton of history and not one theory that shows correlation to the beale. what it shows is that there seems to be something missing from your beale research and makes it seem even more a case of speculation and using history for a justification for including this in the whole story. the kgc and laffites affairs with napoleon were fairly different. it should be obvious that there was something going on with each of these two issues, but the players made into characters in the beale do not fit with french partisans. they relate to a single privateers affairs. the richmond connection was surely because of naval proximity to port for their movements.

beale will not be played like string quartet that is pieced together from another sheet of music. simply put beale is beale and lafitte is in bed with napoleon. imo based on the facts.

Eldo, I've missed you. I'm guessing you've been spending your time trying to find something, anything, that even offers hint that the Paralta stone isn't a complete hoax.

Perhaps, instead of manufacturing history you should try getting in your vehicle and actually spend time examining the ton of endless documents that are out there to be examined. This way you won't be relying on second hand information, rumors, unrealistic treasure legends, and other things of that nature.

You know, history is a funny beast because it is often wrong, for instance, do you know people actually believe that Madison pardoned those of Barateria, and others, after the Battle of New Orleans, when in fact, HE didn't. "Just the facts, mam!"