Any advice on how to tell if old, circulated coins have been cleaned?

[viachicago]

Hey folks! I've been collecting coins for a while now just for fun, but in the last few months I've decided to start building a more focused collection; I'm focused completely on silver, and I've decided to go after early halves.

My goal is essentially to ONE day (won't be any time soon, ha!) have a complete graded collection of capped bust halves all graded VF or better. My plan is to buy graded examples when I come across affordable pieces, and buy ungraded examples to send in myself for grading. Of course I'll half to fork over some serious cash for the scarcer dates, but that'll just be a once-a-year treat to myself sorta thing.

And here's the trouble I'm facing -- I have NO way to tell if these coins have been cleaned or have other problems that could leave the coin with a "details" grade. Harsh cleaning is easy for me to detect, but I've seen many early graded US coins with "improperly cleaned" or "surface residue" or "obv/rev damage" designations, that to me look problem free! Likewise, I've seen coins graded AU-55 problem free that I'm like "WHAT? It's obviously been cleaned!"

How do I make sure I don't get burned? Is my only safe option buying pre-graded coins? It's easy for me to tell if a morgan has been cleaned, but with these early halves I just don't trust myself. To make matters worse, there are no truly trustworthy or reputable dealers in my area (to my knowledge).

Help!

 

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[Iron Patch]

When in doubt buy the seller first. This is a business where there's always going to be someone who tries to skim a little extra, and those are probably the good guys! ...and the bad will out right rip you off. So what you do is deal with people who provide the service you want, but also seem like good people. You ask the questions to make sure you know exactly what you're getting, and then could even pay by paypal, send the coin in asap, and as long as you have it back within 45 days the option for a not as described claim is still available... and with clear proof you would win every time. Of course when it's all said and done you could be out a little money, but I'm sure you would agree having protection and possibly losing $50 is better than paying $500 and being stuck with a $150 coin.

 

[viachicago]

I agree, paying $500 for a $150 coin is precisely what I'm nervous about.

So, you're suggesting ebay as a valid route? My biggest concern is that ebay would rule in the seller's favor if I got the coin graded, because being encapsulated would make the coin "not in the same condition as received". I also happen to sell quite a bit on the 'bay (albeit vintage clothes, not coins)... I'd feel like a jerk if I opened up a case every time a coin got a different grade than the seller implied. Most sellers on ebay seem to have a disclaimer as well; "any grades are just my opinion" etc. etc.

I just wish I had a trustworthy local brick and mortar store I could go to with someone who has a good eye for spotting cleaned coins.

 

[Iron Patch]

I agree, paying $500 for a $150 coin is precisely what I'm nervous about.

So, you're suggesting ebay as a valid route? My biggest concern is that ebay would rule in the seller's favor if I got the coin graded, because being encapsulated would make the coin "not in the same condition as received". I also happen to sell quite a bit on the 'bay (albeit vintage clothes, not coins)... I'd feel like a jerk if I opened up a case every time a coin got a different grade than the seller implied. Most sellers on ebay seem to have a disclaimer as well; "any grades are just my opinion" etc. etc.

I just wish I had a trustworthy local brick and mortar store I could go to with someone who has a good eye for spotting cleaned coins.

Yes ebay. Good sellers who are moving coins and making money don't really want to be involved in the shady stuff because you know yourself dealing with an unhappy buyer is rarely worth it.

The seller can use all the disclaimers he wants, but at the end of the day if you're not getting what he states in the listing you're right and he is wrong. For claims you don't have to provide any pictures, so could simply state the information as a professional opinion... and chances are the seller will just offer the refund because he'd be very sure he'd lose, so why take a negative feedback to go with it.

 

[WhiteTornado]

Until you gain expertise in dealing with CBHs, then I personally would only buy graded ones. Better to save up and have confidence in what you are buying than take a chance only to get burned later. I've been down that road before (not with CBHs but other coins) and learned the hard way.

You could always search for coin shows that might come through your area, if there are no trustworthy dealers you can visit.

 

[cudamark]

Even in slabbed coins, I'd stick with the big three.... PCGS, NGC, and ANACS.....in that order. I've seen too many coins incorrectly graded by other companies. I'm not talking about hair splitting between an MS 63 and an MS 64. I'm talking one graded MS 62 when it isn't even an AU. Some of these oddball grading services will put any grade on them the owner wants.....for a price.

 

[dejapooh]

Many reputable dealers will allow you to buy the coin and have the final sale be pending authentication. Send the dealer a note first asking if you can buy the coin, get the cert, and if there is a problem, return it for your money back. Many will allow you to do that. Many will allow you to do that on whether the coin is Authentic and / or cleaned, but not on the final grade (since that is subjective, and it can change from day to day if you were to submit a coin several times to the same graders). If you use Ebay to communicate, it should not be a problem.

 

[Davers]

IMO
Grading Is totally Subjective.
and As it was said can change from day to day.

I don't care for Grading that much , it def, has it's place ie. Iding Fakes , pointing out small problems that may be hard
to see for the Untrained eye.

IMO - Many MS Morgans are the most UGLY coins out there.

I'm not A "Bright" toner kinda guy unless it's Rainbow & around the Rim.= "Subjective"

I like Capped Halves as Well & most have been Cleaned at some point esp, the early Ones.

I also suppose if NGC or Another Cleans the Coin , it's "Properly" Cleaned.= OK

All this is My Opinion
"Labels" Can be Deceptive ..
& Can hurt Good Coins , Just like a Label can hurt or help a Person.

Ill take a line from the Movie 'Tommy Boy' and say If you want me to take a Dump in a Box & Label it MS , I will if that's
what it takes to sell you my product.

Many a good deal can be found on Coins with a Details IC,or Cleaned label.

To each his own ....

Watch out those Smart/Pesky Chinese are coming out with fake Graded coins that match NGC, #s as well as others.

While I would Never buy a High priced coin online , if you do the advice given above is Priceless.

But what do I know - To me it's all about Eye Appeal. ' but it depends on who's looking.'

Davers

 

[AMorgan]

There are many opinions regarding cleaning and cleaned coins out there... Some things to look out for.... Bright fields, but with dark areas close to the letters and design indicate cleaning. Multiple hairlines in the surfaces that appear to be somewhat parallel indicates abrasive cleaning... the more visible the hairlines, the more value lost. Lack of luster... dull luster... indicates chemical cleaning, possibly multiple times..

 

[Davers]

There are many opinions regarding cleaning and cleaned coins out there... Some things to look out for.... Bright fields, but with dark areas close to the letters and design indicate cleaning. Multiple hairlines in the surfaces that appear to be somewhat parallel indicates abrasive cleaning... the more visible the hairlines, the more value lost. Lack of luster... dull luster... indicates chemical cleaning, possibly multiple times..

Sounds Good To Me...