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Thread: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

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  1. #31
    us
    Mar 2003
    Oregon
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

    OK, since the actual name of the device Oroblanco was interested in seems to be irrelevant, instead of calling it a "magnetic dip needle," let's call it a "radiodynamometer." I'm calling it a "radiodynamometer" simply because I make the rules, and this is what I want to call it.

    Now Oroblanco can research "radiodynamometer" and see how it might be used to locate magnetic anomalies, and he can look around for places to buy a "radiodynamometer." When this turns out to be a dead end, then he can consider using the real name of the device, and perhaps make some progress in finding the information he wanted in the first place.

    And the real name of the device is "bortavflartdurster." Because I said so.

    - Carl

  2. #32
    us
    The Watcher

    Apr 2004
    Northern Nevada
    Dowsing Rods and a Ranger Tell Examiner
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    Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

    OK, since the actual name of the device Oroblanco was interested in seems to be irrelevant, instead of calling it a "magnetic dip needle," let's call it a "radiodynamometer." I'm calling it a "radiodynamometer" simply because I make the rules, and this is what I want to call it.
    No Carl..The history books calls it a Spanish Dip Needle..Any one who knows anything about magnets will understand how it works. A Radiodynamometer is a simple jar with a alum disk hanging from a thin strand of rubber. The Spanish Dip Needle was used to find Gold. The Radiodynamometer was used to measure the emisions from objects....You can call these things anything that you want but that will not change the facts...They work....Art

  3. #33
    us
    Mar 2003
    Oregon
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

    Quote Originally Posted by aarthrj3811
    No Carl..The history books calls it a Spanish Dip Needle..Any one who knows anything about magnets will understand how it works....You can call these things anything that you want but that will not change the facts...They work....
    Here is a picture of a Spanish Dip Needle:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is NOT the same thing as a magnetic dip needle. They are entirely different devices. And, no, the Spanish didn't really use Spanish Dip Needles to locate all their gold mines. The SDN was a late 19th century scam targeted at gold rushers. I can just imagine... "Finds gold 1/2 mile away! Get rich! Only $99!"

    I know that some folks on this forum have a propensity for using incorrect names -- like radiodynamometer, Dr. Getz, and Dr. Doppler -- but I'm not one of them.

    - Carl
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #34
    us
    The Watcher

    Apr 2004
    Northern Nevada
    Dowsing Rods and a Ranger Tell Examiner
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    Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

    Gee Carl...I have some photos to....One is a Radiodynamometer that you keep telling me is a Versorium..

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Attached Images Attached Images  

  5. #35
    us
    The Watcher

    Apr 2004
    Northern Nevada
    Dowsing Rods and a Ranger Tell Examiner
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    Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

    Sorry Oroblanco, Mike, Max, OldBillinUT, arkhunter, SS and gldhntr....If Carl wants to argue with me he can start his own Thread...Art

  6. #36

    Feb 2004
    152
    2 times

    Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

    Man you guys had me going there with these pics LOL

    Patented roasting sticks for the super ballpark 2 1/2 lb frankfurter

    A Irish wishing jar

    A local bar science demo that captures the spin demons from a sweater worn by a damsel ?


    I think I may be coming down with cabinus fevoris maximus

  7. #37
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
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    Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

    Wow - didn't mean to stir up the sh-e-e-tstorm, my apologies! I was just curious about this old device, and have learned a good deal from your replies. I guess I ought to explain WHY I was curious about them to begin with.

    Mrs Oro and I have a placer mine that is nearly all high-bank, tertiary channel that is capped with volcanic lava "dome" of very hard rock. The old-timers who worked this mine tunneled under the lava dome, hunting for pockets in the ancient riverbed and we did the same - some of the pockets, which lay atop a white clay "false bedrock" paid off very well. In every such pocket, we found a thick "lense" of black sands that held a good deal of placer gold. The lava dome is between ten to thirty feet thick on top of the ancient river bed, and flat enough to walk on - if a device like the Spanish dip-needle or magnetic dip needle etc were able to pin-point the location of the "lenses" of black sands, we could then direct our efforts in tunneling to those lenses, instead of "blind" digging and trusting to luck. We tried using a metal detector, but the detector can only "detect" a lense when it is less than one foot in from the surface, and the pockets are just too dis-continuous for that particular method to be of much benefit.

    Then I found that article online about Jimmy Angel and his partner using a Spanish dip-needle that was able to detect a gold location on top of a mountain while flying over it, and thought, boy if it could pick up the iron-bearing sands from a plane, it would surely work through a couple dozen feet of rock and caliche. But when I saw one for sale for $3000, I decided I would tap into the wealth of knowledge and experience available here on T-net among the members, so started this thread.

    So from what I have learned here, it looks like it would be worth buying one of the $50 models to take along the net time we head for our mine. If it did not work through the lava dome, at least I would only be out $50, instead of the $3000! Thank you all for the replies and information, I hope you all find the treasures that you seek.

    Oroblanco
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  8. #38

    Feb 2004
    152
    2 times

    Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

    Oro what you are doing makes sense to me for the same reason on the same kind of formation. Want to compare notes after we do the walkovers ?

    It's going to be exciting to get out on that cap and check it out. Too bad we don't have eyes like a fish eh ?

  9. #39
    us
    Mar 2003
    Oregon
    V3i, MX9, TDX, GMT, Custom Designs
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

    The device pictured in the "Jimmy Angel" article is definitely a magnetic dip needle. The writer of the article is incorrect in calling it a Spanish dip needle. Anyway, yes, it might be useful for what you want, though I expect a black sand deposit at 30 feet deep would have to be rather larger for this method. Four Darley MDNs recently sold on eBay for $24-$38, so it's dirt cheap to try.

    If you want to get serious, then invest in a good proton mag, or hire someone to do a mag survey of the property. Shouldn't be terribly expensive. Heck, you can build a proton mag for $100.

    - Carl

  10. #40

    Dec 2004
    1,382
    8 times

    Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

    there seemed to be the implication that i was confused which i am not...i posted about the aqua meter as i thought it would be a much cheaper alternative to be used for locating buried metals, not because i thought it was spanish, chinese, or anything else...... it works on the magnetic principal and i have posted such...anyone wanting more info on it can read it here, from a history on the unit......anyone wanting to argue about it might as well argue with their self....as for testing carl, no, but i would suggest you hold on to my $ 25000.00 as i will come for it one day...........todd

    The old adage about necessity being the mother of invention is exemplified by the invention story for the Aqua Locator. Its chief inventor, Othmar W. Pies (William H. Middendorf and Carl F. Everet, Jr. were co-inventors), worked for years in public utilities serving the City of Cincinnati. Mr. Pies' duties included locating and maintaining water lines and meters. Accurate maps of underground utilities often were not created, were not maintained, or became useless because surface features changed.

    Mr. Pies tired of using trial and error to find underground utilities; existing devices and methods were unreliable and cumbersome. He understood the magnetic principles at work in a standard compass, and the location technology of the day "dipping needles." Dipping needles customarily were used to locate underground objects, but suffered from a number of practical deficiencies.

    For example, dipping needles were prone to "needle spin," meaning that merely moving the device from place to place caused the pointing needle to rock back and forth rapidly. In addition, dipping needles suffered from an inherent ergonomic flaw: the needle face had a vertical orientation: the face was perpendicular to the ground, and the user could not comfortably view the needle's position while standing or walking.

    The Aqua Locator inventors utilized existing technologies, but eliminated their primary shortcomings. The heart of the Aqua Locator is a functional compass, but with many refinements to facilitate the device's intended use. Needle spin was essentially eliminated using proprietary damping methods. The Aqua Locator employs mirrors to provide a horizontal reading face for the user. Further, the Aqua Locator includes a carrying case and strap, which permit the user to take readings comfortably while standing or walking.


    Click to Enlarge
    Mr. Pies filed a patent application for the Aqua Locator on October 18, 1954, and Patent No. 2,775,736 was granted on December 25, 1956. The patent was assigned to a partnership (Aqua Survey & Instrument Company), and production of the Aqua Locator began in Cincinnati.

    From its inception, the Aqua Locator assembly process required hand craftsmanship and meticulous attention to detail, including precise calibration of every unit for its intended geographical destination before shipping. That old-world approach to craftsmanship, including most of the original tooling created for the Aqua Locator, continues to the present day even though ownership has changed and production facilities are now located in Cedarville, Ohio.

    The Aqua Locator requires little training to operate, uses no software (ergo no bugs, viruses, or upgrades), and does not require batteries. It operates in all temperatures, and comes with its own carrying case. In the era of ubiquitous electronics, the Aqua Locator's ingenuity and intelligent design still stand apart.


  11. #41
    us
    The Watcher

    Apr 2004
    Northern Nevada
    Dowsing Rods and a Ranger Tell Examiner
    7,792
    244 times

    Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

    Mrs Oro and I have a placer mine that is nearly all high-bank, tertiary channel that is capped with volcanic lava "dome" of very hard rock. The old-timers who worked this mine tunneled under the lava dome, hunting for pockets in the ancient riverbed and we did the same - some of the pockets, which lay atop a white clay "false bedrock" paid off very well.
    This is very interesting.....I spent one summer under one of those domes. I found the gold was like you said except that our clay was blue. I guess where you are located and when the ash was put down determines the color of the clay. A friend had a book on the Tertiary Gravels of Northern California that was written in 1912 and anytime I located something new to me I would read the book. What was amazing was the fact that the newer books all refered to this old book. ....Art

  12. #42
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
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    Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

    Thanks guys! It will be a while before we can make a return trip to the mine, as it is a bit of a drive and I have a few "projects" that I have to do here, plus we can NOT ever just go there and spend a week or two, we always end up staying for months so have to plan accordingly. You know how that danged gold can keep your attention honed!

    The size of those pockets varies a great deal - from not much bigger than a pie plate and three inches thick to the largest we found which was over twelve feet across, but only about a foot thick. A neighboring mine hit a real "glory hole" that was nearly nine feet tall and more than twenty feet across, (a "hole" in the white clay false bedrock) which allowed our neighbor to retire - and of course he refuses to quit mining! It will be an interesting experiment to try and could be a real labor saver.

    Those old tertiary channels are pretty interesting - some seem to run in perpendicular directions to "modern" stream channels; at our mine, just a couple hundred feet away is a "modern" channel, which has virtually NO gold. I always thought that was strange.

    Oroblanco
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  13. #43
    us
    The Watcher

    Apr 2004
    Northern Nevada
    Dowsing Rods and a Ranger Tell Examiner
    7,792
    244 times

    Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

    Hey oroblanco...Not only interesting but amazing. The history of the Sierra Nevada's is that the mountains wore down and spread the gold in all the rivers. Then the Mountains were lifted up on the east side (the faults can still be seen in some areas) and the water started to flow in a different direction. Many of the old rivers are now on the mountain sides. As the new rivers created new channels they cut into some of the old rivers and started to spread the gold. Some of these old channels are now covered with Lava flows. Some of these old channels are springs now. I worked one old channel. The gold was there but so were the regulations....Art

  14. #44
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    5,614
    1399 times

    Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

    We have had very good "luck" in getting approval from the BLM, I think because we use some "key terms" that don't get the protectionists excited - like

    "working underground"
    "in existing tunnels"
    "tailings (gravel and sand) used to level and repair road access"

    so that we never got a refusal on notice of intent or plan of operations - though we did have plenty of problems with state park rangers after the Desert Protection Act got passed. They literally tried to keep us out with locked gates, threatened to fine us if we turned over a single stone on our mine, actually stole our cabin with everything inside it while we were in town etc. Lovely people they were, sure hope they get a similar treatment some day.

    Oroblanco
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  15. #45
    us
    Dec 2008
    1

    Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

    Anyone interested in a Tungsten Magnetic Dipping Needle by W.S. Darley & Co. with original instructions and the original Hard Leather Case.Looks like its an antique by looking at the age of the instruction sheet.Which has no rips.There is no date anywhere,on the sheet or the tool itself.I will take pics if requested. Email me at rickyspencer@gmail.com with dipping needle in the subject field or call 440 382 6912.I am located just east of Cleveland Ohio. last offer was $100.00 USD>as of 01/05/09

 

 
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