Dredging in North Carolina National Forest on Private Property?

[rtp_guy]

After quite a bit of research, I figured I'd ask here for additional clarification. Can you legally dredge in a National Forest area of western North Carolina with written permission of the private land owner? My question only pertains to private land where a stream flows through, not public areas. Also, is there a restriction by time of year, such as fish spawning periods? Thanks in advance.

 

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[Bill_saf]

here is a link and all I can say is talk to the ranger for that National Forset area. so you don't get busted.

NCDEQ - Gold Brochure

 

[Goldwasher]

How is it National forest AND private at the same time?

 

[rtp_guy]

I'm friends with 4 homeowners/landowners in an area that is just inside the Pisgah NF. Look at a PNF map to see how much land it covers and it will make sense. I've validated the land deeds through county records, as well as ensure that the river is part of that property line. They have agreed to let me dredge/prospect their land. I'm not considering going anywhere off of their land to dredge or prospect. I've read numerous interpretations that state that you can do this on private property. However, in reading the NF rules, it sounds as if all dredging within these massive areas is banned, although they do not specifically address private property.

I'd love to hear of anyone else's understanding of this scenario. PM me if you'd prefer discuss privately. I'm new to this, so I'd greatly appreciate any insight... and yes, I will visit the Park Ranger when I arrive, but I'm trying to be well-researched prior. Thanks in advance.

 

[Bill_saf]

That is a gray area if NF line is the creek, river, stream and privet land on other side. I have some thing like that here but with private land owners where does the line of owner ship really sits
one said in the middle of the creek and the other one said that the creek at that point is on him. some times its inches that gets you locked up so it is better to get the ok from all that it apply"s to.

Bill

 

[rtp_guy]

To be clear, their property starts about 1 mile inside the NF border. Their private property line includes the river, but does sit inside of the NF's outer perimeter.

 

[Bill_saf]

Talk with the head ranger that's all I can say.

 

[rtp_guy]

I'm definitely going to talk to the Ranger. I would love to have somewhat of an understanding before I call though, so I know the best way to phrase my questions. It is just slightly frustrating that this issue seems to be so unclear... at least where no one is comfortable with the issue. Is the official answer one thing, but the local Ranger's interpretation potentially different? I guess I'm still unsure what the official answer is regarding private property within a NF.

Any perspectives, experiences or opinions are greatly appreciated.

 

[Bill_saf]

Is the official answer one thing, but the local Ranger's interpretation potentially different Bingo! [/COLOR]I guess I'm still unsure what the official answer is regarding private property within a NF.

Any perspectives, experiences or opinions are greatly appreciated.

what do you thing the guys and gal's out west go thru all the time. their are some going to court to get there dredges, and equipment back. the USFS think they own the land and are the law that the private land sits in. so all I am going to say is know your rights, know the mining laws, the law for the state of NC if you need a permit get one. get all of your ducks in a row. I really don't want to see you go out and get locked up and have you equipment taken. Its not EZ any more with all of the tree hugger's out there. fish spawning is over for the year.

Bill

 

[rtp_guy]

Thanks for the info. I called the Ranger's office. Lady I spoke to wasn't sure. Transferred me to a different person where I had to leave a voicemail. No call back today. I called again at 4:50pm and they were already closed.

I've just read so many accounts stating that if you're 100% on private land and have the landowner's permission, then you're ok to dredge. The official rules on the NF site do not specify if that is applicable to private property or not.

 

[ncclaymaker]

I strongly suggest that you NEVER accept any oral statements whatsoever. Oral history has a habit of being rewritten by people. I would suggest that you get it "memorialized", in other words, in writing. After talking to the Ranger, simply email the person confirming your discussion and that the following items were discussed and are correct. Reply or no reply by the Ranger is OK. Your email will suffice. Also, in North Carolina, there is NO requirement whatsoever that you inform the other party that you are recording the conversation. Thanks to our Legislature, they found that secretly recording calls were just dandy in their pursuit of "transparency". The recording will stand up in court as legal and valid. After all, if you are not a law enforcement official, you have no requirement to inform Smokey and company of your activity. There are free or low cost cell phone apps created just for that purpose. Check out which one will be for you.

I also use a GPS enabled tablet to log my exact whereabouts. No guessing at your location required. Check out this app link for Maps Pro in the Microsoft App Store, it's a whole $4.99 . - https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/maps-pro/9wzdncrfjcdd

Note my handle

 

[Honest Samuel]

How is it National forest AND private at the same time?

They are not. But, thanks for asking.

 

[BagLady]

I also suggest you get with a local GPAA chapter. Coker Creek GPAA is out of NE Tennessee, but many there also prospect in NC, and are up on all the legal stuff. They have an active forum, of which I am a member, so I know they can help.

 

[rtp_guy]

They are not. But, thanks for asking.

Is this a direct answer to my question? If so, I would assume that private land within a NF boundary isn't trumped by NF regulations. I am just assuming here, since there hasn't been a response to my exact question yet.

 

[stefen]

This same topic was discussed on Treasure Net in the past, as I recall.

Regardless of the State within the Union, private land within any National Forest may have a property line that is bounded by a stream, creek or river, be it the center-line or an edge.

The property line locations have no bearing on the subject, only who has jurisdiction over the body of water.

To paraphrase the conclusion, "The moving body of water may be within private property but is under the jurisdiction and control of the National Forest."

Therefore, written or oral permission by a homeowner has no bearing on the subject.

 

[wingmaster]

Usually its private lands that are surrounded by NF it just don't show up like that on all maps and looks like it's all NF land, I assume this is the case where it's actually private but any direction off of that private property it's all NF land or maybe just a few private properties that are all surrounded by NF land. HH

 

[russau]

I also suggest you get with a local GPAA chapter. Coker Creek GPAA is out of NE Tennessee, but many there also prospect in NC, and are up on all the legal stuff. They have an active forum, of which I am a member, so I know they can help.

I didn't know that this club was still in operation! MANY gpaa clubs are folding and closeing shop!

 

[KevinInColorado]

This same topic was discussed on Treasure Net in the past, as I recall.

Regardless of the State within the Union, private land within any National Forest may have a property line that is bounded by a stream, creek or river, be it the center-line or an edge.

The property line locations have no bearing on the subject, only who has jurisdiction over the body of water.

To paraphrase the conclusion, "The moving body of water may be within private property but is under the jurisdiction and control of the National Forest."

Therefore, written or oral permission by a homeowner has no bearing on the subject.

Sadly Stefen, it's not that simple. The National Forests in the western states are "public land" in a different way from the National Forests in the east. The forest in NC was private land and was purchased by the government from someone like you or me. This makes the fundamental legal framework supporting the regulations completely different. The mining laws do not apply either. Wow, right? All of this means the original post is asking smart questions that wouldn't be answered by our normal chatter about the USFS administered public lands owned by all of us out west.

 

[chlsbrns]

"Recreational rockhounding and gold panning are not allowed in forest areas where mineral rights are owned by a private party, or in an area that is under mineral lease to a private party"

National Forests in North Carolina - Recreation

 

[rtp_guy]

After grilling 2 people from the Park Ranger's office, I have an update. For starters, There are a couple of scenarios to outline:

1) Public Land in a NC NF - All posted rule for the NF are valid.
2) Private Land in a NC NF where a river/stream is on the border with Federal land - This is the major area of contention. Basically, you cannot dredge or sluice, but you can pan with a hand trowel.
3) Private Land in a NC NF where the river/stream does not share a border with Federal land - There are no overarching NF rules that are applicable in this scenario... dredge away while responsibly and carefully protecting the natural environment. Thankfully, this is my scenario (obviously with written landowner permission). I cannot do anything that severely pollutes the downstream water quality, but those regulations are outside of the NC NF Rangers jurisdiction.

Please feel free to add on anything I should consider or that you may disagree with. Thanks.