Pinpoint Function - quiet then loud

[Owassokie]

I have a question. When I pinpoint, often times the pinpointing process is a low/quiet volume. I assume this will happen if you turn on the pinpointer with your coil over the target...I'm not. Sometimes I can swing off of the target and back on and the sound goes up to what I assume is normal level. If that doesn't work, I click off and back on and it usually functions properly. I assume the low/quiet volume is what you should hear on a deep target...but these aren't deep targets.

The other issue I've mentioned on a different thread is the machine not identifying deep targets the way everyone else seems to. I wonder if there's some correlation. At this point, I still assume it's user error/emi/lack of knowledge that is the problem. I'm hoping some of you can point me in the right direction.

OO

 

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[eman1000]

Try this. Place a coin on the ground and turn your pinpoint function on away from the coin. Then slowly move the coil close to the coin you should not only hear the volume increase from nothing but you should also see the guage half circle notches increase towards the top as well.

When you are right on top of the coin where the center of the coil & shaft meet you should be at the top of the guage as well. It should be its loudest volume at this point.

The depth meter so far is the least impressive feature I have seen as my cheap fishers seems to be better. I was just out at lunch and found 5 clad pennies no more than an inch deep and it was reading 4-6"?

As far as finding deep targets if you ground balance properly it will greatly increase your depth. You shouldn't have to do the manual ground balance using the + and - , just watch this video and do the auto and that should be sufficient for most.
I have dug a couple small targets in the 7-8" range already.



Not sure if this is the answer your were looking for but hope it helps. HH

 

[Owassokie]

eman, thanks for responding. I guess I didn't do a good job of explaining where I'm at in terms of understanding the machine. I've read the manual and understand "most" of the basics (at least I think I do). I noise cancel and auto ground balance. I've watched most of the Equinox videos on youtube including the one in your post. My issue is that I often get 2 differing results when repeating the same pinpoint process. In both results, the machine starts off with no sound and then builds audibly and on the screen as you get closer to the target. The difference is that on the first pass, it's usually a very quiet or muffled and builds slightly as you get to the center of the target. Even when I'm over the target, the sound is not very loud. Upon moving away from the target and repeating the process, the pinpoint will simply be louder and build to a very high pitch when it's over the target.

 

[jeg208]

Perhaps it is just the detuning? The detector automatically detunes with each pass based on (totally guessing here) the highest signal. Perhaps you are off center during your initial pass?

I usually do two passes, horizontal then vertical, then horizontal and vertical again. Each time it is detuned so I am getting closer and closer, and the audio is getting louder because I am getting closer to dead on.

 

[vferrari]

The pinpoint feature has known quirkiness with inconsistent high and low volume issues and is a little buggy (sometimes it doesn't lock in and you have to hit the PP button and start over). If it is acting up just hit PP and start over, but the target needs to be near the coil active region to get a lock-on and the soft, then loud audio response is "normal" for this machine. I suspect that if ML offers a firmware update this will be one of the features that gets addressed with a bug fix.

 

[fuceye]

The pinpoint feature has known quirkiness with inconsistent high and low volume issues and is a little buggy (sometimes it doesn't lock in and you have to hit the PP button and start over). If it is acting up just hit PP and start over, but the target needs to be near the coil active region to get a lock-on and the soft, then loud audio response is "normal" for this machine. I suspect that if ML offers a firmware update this will be one of the features that gets addressed with a bug fix.

this volume thing is a problem. pinpoint a target and the phones seem to go to 1/2 volume.they stay that way till you find a new target or reset the equinox.....its as if the phones go into sleep mode or something.
this is what I have experinced as well as a number of other owners on other sites I've been on.
I,ve contacted minelab and they tell me that my phones are the culprit. this afternoon I,ve sent the headphones back to minelab for replacement as per their request. a new set are in the mail as I write this reply.

 

[vferrari]

this volume thing is a problem. pinpoint a target and the phones seem to go to 1/2 volume.they stay that way till you find a new target or reset the equinox.....its as if the phones go into sleep mode or something.
this is what I have experinced as well as a number of other owners on other sites I've been on.
I,ve contacted minelab and they tell me that my phones are the culprit. this afternoon I,ve sent the headphones back to minelab for replacement as per their request. a new set are in the mail as I write this reply.

You and I both know it is not the headphones but if they want you to send them back, you need to listen to the manufacturer - lol. It may just be a bug with your Equinox 850 though...

 

[Normsel]

It's an abomomily of the Equinox. I have tried everything and sometimes it does go silent for a second or so and when I move away and come back it screams. I have tried turning on pinpoint over the target and away from the target and it sometimes barely hums unless I move away and come back or click out of pinpoint then turning it back on. I have both the 600 and 800. Many people experience the same thing and I really doubt it's the headphones. If it is the headphones then Minelab should recall all headphones. Right now Minelab is having everyone send their detectors or accessories back with no questions asked. They are trying to avoid any negative press about their service or Equinox problems.

 

[vferrari]

It's an abomomily of the Equinox. I have tried everything and sometimes it does go silent for a second or so and when I move away and come back it screams. I have tried turning on pinpoint over the target and away from the target and it sometimes barely hums unless I move away and come back or click out of pinpoint then turning it back on. I have both the 600 and 800. Many people experience the same thing and I really doubt it's the headphones. If it is the headphones then Minelab should recall all headphones. Right now Minelab is having everyone send their detectors or accessories back with no questions asked. They are trying to avoid any negative press about their service or Equinox problems.

Instead of having users send their equipment back in, they need to send out two things - a firmware fix for the Pinpoint bugs and the User Profile settings reset bug and get some accessories on the street. If they could make menu navigation work such that you could go forwards AND backwards between the modes that would be gravy. Lol.

 

[fuceye]

time will tell.

 

[Owassokie]

Thanks a bunch fellas. I just wanted to make sure I didn't have some "special" issue with my detector that needed to be addressed. I'll wait patiently to see if ML offers an update.

OO

 

[Truth]

I’m just coming back from hunting and I had the same problem with a three ringer. I place my ring ringer 8 inches deep where I have found many before and with the equinox there was not any signal in any mode. I was on ground balance zero I didn’t ground balance is that the problem?

 

[fuceye]

I’m just coming back from hunting and I had the same problem with a three ringer. I place my ring ringer 8 inches deep where I have found many before and with the equinox there was not any signal in any mode. I was on ground balance zero I didn’t ground balance is that the problem?

now would be a great time to read the manual. have you seasoned the could yet?

 

[sprailroad]

I've had the same issue with pinpoint mode. Had to turn it off, then on again, it's been a hit or miss thing. Now that I recall, I kind of had the same pinpoint button problem with a X-Terra 70.

 

[sgoss66]

owassokie -- this is not an issue specific to your machine, as others have noted. Mine does it as well.

I THINK I have figured out this pinpoint issue, or "bug" as some are calling it. Bear with me here, as I will try to explain, but is a bit tedious to explain, and thus I need a bunch of words to do it!

I think this "issue" occurs when you initiate pinpoint mode, and unbeknownst to you there is accidentally a SECOND target under the coil (i.e. not your "target of interest) right as you press the pinpoint button. For instance, let's say you locate a target of interest, and so you move the coil a foot or so to the side of the target and initiate pinpoint. IF you happen to initiate the pinpoint over or near a SECOND target that is in the ground, the "auto-tuning function" in the pinpoint mode -- i.e. the way the pinpoint mode accomplishes its goal of giving you the proper, modulated VCO audio (i.e. quiet for deep targets, and loud for shallow ones) gets "messed up" by that "other adjacent target."

Let me offer a simplified illustration, but one I believe is roughly correct. When you engage pinpoint, what that mode of course tries to do, is give you -- through "modulated" audio -- an idea of how deep your target of interest is; soft sound for deep/weak signals, and loud sound for shallow/large targets. But to accomplish this, the pinpoint mode when first initiated has to be "baselined" over CLEAN ground. I think it uses sort of a "differencing" process, comparing signal strength when it was "baselined" to signal strength of the target, and then USING THAT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TARGET AND BASELINE, gives a modulated audio response (loud, or soft).

So, let's say you locate an ISOLATED (clean ground) silver dime, 4" deep...no other nearby targets present. You move the coil a foot or so to the side of the target, and initiate pinpoint mode. Now, the unit quickly "baselines" itself to CLEAN GROUND (no target under the coil). Let's say, for illustration purposes, the clean ground signal strength is a "1". Now, when you move over the dime, it measures the signal strength of the silver dime, and let's say the dime strength is an "8." So what I think the machine does is takes the "8" strength of the target, subtracts the signal strength of the ground ("1"), and now, signal strength is "7". And I think it is this "7" that the modulated audio algorithm uses, to output the audio. So, in this case, the algorithm reports a relatively strong "7" signal by assigning this "7" a "loud" volume level, thus correctly telling you the target is shallow (or large).

HOWEVER, consider the same scenario, same 4" silver dime, but this time, when you move the coil a foot to the side of the coin, let's say you accidentally, unintentionally initiate pinpoint over the top of a second, target. NOW, the pinpoint "baselines" to this second target, instead of baselining to clean ground. And let's say this adjacent target's signal strength is a relatively strong "6." So now, 6 becomes the "baseline." And so now, when you move the coil over the top of the silver dime (again, whose signal strength is "8"), the machine takes the 8 signal of the dime, subtracts from the "baseline" signal of 6 -- which the algorithm incorrectly assumes is a GROUND signal, and thus when the differencing occurs, you get a difference of 2. And so now, the modulated VCO pinpoint sound of the dime is very (inappropriately and incorrectly) quiet (as it is using "2" as the signal strength to assign audio volume to). So, at this point, you either need to move the coil over CLEAN ground for a few seconds (so that the machine can eventually, automatically "re-baseline" itself), or else just turn off pinpoint and re-engage, over clean ground, "forcing" manually a "re-baseline." Then, things go "back to normal," with correct (not quiet) pinpoint audio.

Now, this is just a simplified explanation; what is actually going on I am sure is a bit more complicated than that. BUT -- after using the machine now for 6 months, I'm almost sure this is essentially what is happening. In order to give us that nice, modulated audio, that "ramps up" over the top of the coin, and then "back down" as you move the coil off the coin, and is appropriately "loud" or "quiet," depending upon size/depth of the target, it's IMPERATIVE that when you initiate the pinpoint mode, so as to "baseline" the VCO audio algorithm, that you initiate pinpoint mode over CLEAN GROUND. And this can be difficult in ground that is filled with targets.

THIS is essentially what I believe to be happening. I think if you simply assume in your mind that when you engage pinpoint mode, and you move the coil over the target, and the sound is really, really soft, ASSUME that you must have initiated pinpoint mode over the top of, or at least near, a SECOND target. So, simply turn pinpoint mode back off, and then re-engage it in a slightly different location (maybe a foot away from the target, but on a different side of the target of interest). 99% of the time, this works for me...

Steve

 

[vferrari]

Interesting theory. I'll have to pay attention to this possibility. Frankly, I have gotten used to just toggling it off and back on when it comes on too soft. I have also noticed it recovering volume without resetting so that would be consistent with your clean ground baseline reset, but like I said, need to pay closer attention to what's happening to see if it is being influenced by a nearby target. Thanks.

 

[Possum]

You and I both know it is not the headphones but if they want you to send them back, you need to listen to the manufacturer - lol. It may just be a bug with your Equinox 850 though...

I agree with VF, it's not the headphones because it does the same thing with my Bose Bluetooth ear pieces and my Sun Ray Pro Gold headphones... "D"

 

[sprailroad]

As I said earlier before I've had the same thing going on with the pinpoint, today (for some reason) after say Xing the target, I put the coil over right where I thought the target was, at least two to three inches above the target and then pressed the pinpoint button. I don't know why but the pinpoint mode worked MUCH better for me, 9 times out of 10 anyway, good sharp response right away. Enough so that I really took notice in the difference.

 

[dirtlooter]

must be common in a lot of NOXs, mine does it too.

 

[Owassokie]

owassokie -- this is not an issue specific to your machine, as others have noted. Mine does it as well.

I THINK I have figured out this pinpoint issue, or "bug" as some are calling it. Bear with me here, as I will try to explain, but is a bit tedious to explain, and thus I need a bunch of words to do it!

Steve

I like this theory. It makes sense. I'm usually hunting in a trashy park or yard. I know when I reengage the pinpoint function, it usually(maybe always?) resets to the louder tone. But I would imagine I'm reengaging at a slightly different location. Next time I'm out, I'll try to replicate the same location of where I initiate pinpoint to see if I can get the machine to give the soft tone multiple times.