compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

[ivan salis]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

still waiting for your college and gpa * fair is fair you questioned if I had one by implying that I had "degree envy" thus no degree * -- I not afraid to show mine and state when and where it was obtained and my gpa as well --your turn now ---

the location to find out about the information you seek has been supplied --trenton college of new jersey --compulsory volunteerism-- thus you have the tools to go "see it" for yourself, so please do so ---I do not get food for and "spoon feed" folks unless their babies or feeble old folks -- your old enough to chew your own food and big enough to get it yourself.

 

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[ivan salis]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

rubies nice --me like

 

[21stTNCav]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2335203/posts?page=14

Ok, there ya go. Just go to yahoo and look up Trenton College compulsory volunteerism. Just that easy. All 1300 incoming freshmen are being required to divide up into groups for Community volunteerism projects. If the student does not have this by graduation, no diploma, and no it does not look like the projects have to have anything to do with a major. Volunteerism my A$$. Just liars lying again.

 

[jeff of pa]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

Welcome to "The United Socialist States of Amerika!"
Post edeted

I Don't think this has anything to
do with Washington.

I Do think it's the sell out Yuppies
from the 60's who are Dreaming up
this Crap to "Change the world" though.

This Program is Probably created by the School
and College Administrations.

They have been doing it at, at least
one of the High schools here,
for about 6 years or so.
They are told it's a % of their Grade.
(But Hey, If your Passing ? Do you need
that % ?) Most just find someone To
say "Yes I'm disabled"
or "Yes I'm Old" & So & So Mows my Grass or
Takes me to the store

Although I Think it's a Bluff on the Schools
part anyway.

& I Would have Called that bluff,
when I Was in school.

Question : In inner city Schools,
is Removing Old ladies of their Heavy Purses
a Public Service ?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

Good Morning swr: Ivan posted -->

" now that you know what you "implied" of me (degree envy) is false--- I feel entitled to ask of you --just what degrees do you have and what was your 'gpa' ?"

~~~~~~~~~~~

I am still waiting for your answer to him??

As for me, I was a high school kick-out, a bum, anti social, lazy 'igerent', mule driving, dream chaser.

If it wasn't for my brilliant wife, I would probably be in a breadline. Her major mistake was that she married me, but then Psychology wasn't in her studies, and she 'IS' human.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

P.S. Personally, I feel that this time would be better spent studying your Major. This, to my way of thinking, is simply another scholastic, preconditioning of the public to a future life of socialism.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

How would you classify anyone who is a nurse or a doctor, who, HAS to work at clinics (free) and hospitals (free), retirement homes (free) VA homes and hospitals (free) and other places - in order to graduate. Same if you want to be a veterinarian.

Its really not new, its been forever, it just depended on the school and the vocation.

B

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

HI BETH mi luv: Simple, anything that will involve interaction directly with the public in line with your future career IS acceptable. Most Majors aren't.

I left medical training when it was found that I needed more of a stimulation of my interest than daily, repeatable, routine medical work would give me. It was suggested that exploratory physics would be far more suitable.

Now you know why I am a Treasure hunter. snicker

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Monty]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

Anyone wh don't believe in forced volunteerism has never ben in the armed forces. We volunteered for KP , medical experiments , all kinds of parades and marching, assignments and work stations, you name it we were "volunteered" for it! Monty

 

[ivan salis]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

in the military , once you sign up --you lose most if not all of your normal "civilian "rights"--you are in effect "us govt property" to be done with as your superoirs say -- right up them "ordering" you to charging a machine gun nest on a suicide mission , since what they need you to do might very well get you killed --its set up that way --you must basically obey orders without question -- if the "orders" given were wrong , illegal or immoral according to military standards --its addressed "after the fact".

once in the military --the "govt" in effects owns you 24 /7 to do with as they please --its as close to "paid" slavery as one can get. -- a good smart officer / commander is a blessing --and a bad one a beast from hell that gets folks killed often needlessly. --war involves killing --but one can use ones troops wizely and cut down on needless loss -- some only think of the objective * the cost be damned -- some think of how to do it with the least of men and material being destroyed --if your in the military pray for a smart commander

monty --while not "offically" in the military --I was in the both gulf wars ( US merchant marine --twice awarded the us merchant marine expeditionary award medal --one for each war) bringing supplies to the troops --the first one was on a ammo hauler , the second a jet fuel tanker --but during my merchant marine years --I spent lots of time around the military -- 4 years at diego garcia --8 months a year

 

[ivan salis]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

uh "required" to be able to graduate hardly means -- "free choice" -- as I understand it. ps it has been reported by several major national news networks --on both TV and radio , as well as on the "internet". -- since you seem unable to simply admit that its a valid "subject" matter upon which we have reported --you clearly can not be expected to have a sensible grasp of this issue.

 

[pygmy]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

SWR said the students volunteer freely and they sure do.
If they are placed in an old age care home to help out , they will be asked "what do you want to do ;
feed the old folks with a spoon, change the dirty bed linen or empty out the overfull colonoscopy bags".
This is an example of freedom of choice SWR referred to.

 

[godisnum1]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

uh "required" to be able to graduate hardly means -- "free choice" -- as I understand it. ps it has been reported by several major national news networks --on both TV and radio , as well as on the "internet". -- since you seem unable to simply admit that its a valid "subject" matter upon which we have reported --you clearly can not be expected to have a sensible grasp of this issue.

Ivan, there are those who "volunteer" their services to argue every point out... and they'll do whatever it takes to make sure they are "right" and you are "wrong" It's petty, but just let it go and move onto the subject at hand... not the grade school chatter in the background.

Bran <><

 

[ivan salis]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

ah my point is this --as a publicly funded school (tax payor funded)-- they should not "require" it in the first place * --since tax dollars are funding it , the "requirement" of "compulsory volunteerism" should not be allowed --so that all persons can "freely" attend it --without the "forced labor" issue hanging over their heads --(having to work in non feild of study -- in volunteer "jobs"-- as "free labor" for so many hours in order to get their degree --its a form of extortion / blackmail / free forced labor.

private schools can of course set their own "standards" -- and you of course can decide to attend or not attend them--but "publicly" fund schools--nope

 

[ivan salis]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

ah a clear differance of opinion * --fine -- its a free country -your entiltled to your veiwpoint no matter how wrong others may feel it is .

now I merely ask that you please explain why you feel that way and what you use to "justify" your "position". --- I have been very upfront on why I think its wrong -- can you now explain why you think its "right"?

 

[ivan salis]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

I have stated that "volunteering" is basically good and does lots of good things -- what I against is "forced" volunteering -- it should be done via free will and thus not "forced" from people -- it would be like ---the differance between a church where you "give" as you feel to the collection plate --vs --one that demands your W2 and 10% of your income to be in it.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

I hate to agree with SWR (I so very rarely do it ), but, SWR is right, someone studying to be an English teacher will NEVER be required to change a colostomy bag in an old age home (that is reserved for people who are training for the medical profession), and when people go to college, their basic concern is their credits. (for whatever they are in college for) Anytime you are in a college, it is YOUR choice to go to the college, and when you take a class, their are requirements to pass that class. Don't do the required work, you simply don't get the credits.

And, the US armed services - while voluntary - once you are in there, you realize quickly that you have volunteered to become a team, and to serve the needs of the service, whatever they are - quite often, what you will hear (and obey) is "I need three volunteers - Smith, Jones, Decker, you have just volunteered to clean the barracks for the next 2 weeks - to which your reply is "Yes Sir" - that means you have volunteered.

You think this is new? Have you ever heard of an apprenticeship? That's the word they USED to use when you didn't get paid for doing a job while you were learning.

B

 

[Smee]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

Is it related to this bill?

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-1388

After reading most of it (originally called G.I.V.E."), it actually appears to have a good cause behind it.

Mind you, I haven't read the entire bill, but it would make activity such as that engaged in by ACORN illegal for those who are "volunteered". It also specifically prohibits "religious instruction" and such too.

It might be worth a read before condemning it.

This has come up before in an earlier draft while the religious forum was still here on Tnet. I read it then, and the two are very similar. Sometimes we react before we know all the facts, or accept facts from sources we consider to be reliable which later may turn out to have been "skewed". Don't misunderstand me though, they DID get the stories on health care reform right, and even left out some of the scarriest stuff.

 

[21stTNCav]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2335203/posts?page=14

Ok, there ya go. Just go to yahoo and look up Trenton College compulsory volunteerism. Just that easy. All 1300 incoming freshmen are being required to divide up into groups for Community volunteerism projects. If the student does not have this by graduation, no diploma, and no it does not look like the projects have to have anything to do with a major. Volunteerism my A$$. Just liars lying again.

Your reliable source is an internet forum? LOL

Just exactly who is lying , since this particular College has been requiring volunteerism since 1995. You propbably didn't know that some of the elective (classes) courses count as volunteer time served.

So....just exactly what is the "forced" part of this rant, and just exactly what in the hell does it have to do with the 13th amendment when the students volunteer freely?

I have stated that "volunteering" is basically good and does lots of good things -- what I against is "forced" volunteering -- it should be done via feel will and thus not "forced" from people -- it would be like ---the differance between a church where you "give" as you feel to the collection plate --vs --one that demands your W2 and 10% of your income to be in it.

Ivan...as much as you are against it....it is not forced labor, nor is it an infringement of the 13th amendment.

Here is an example of what your are calling forced labor:

But there are also other ways freshmen can complete their service goals, he said.

Roughly half of the professors teaching freshmen seminar classes have opted to include the service component in their curriculum, incorporating "community engaged learning" right into the syllabus, Donahue said.

In these cases, students not only receive credit for the class, but also credit toward their service requirement.

For example, one freshmen seminar class, "The Vanishing Amazon," will require students to visit a school in Trenton and build a virtual rainforest in the class so students can learn about the ecosystem and other facts.

"It fits right into the school's curriculum because they would be learning about the rainforest anyway," Donahue said.

http://www.nj.com/news/times/regional/index.ssf?/base/news-18/1252388710151040.xml&coll=5

No, Ivan...you do not have to change old peoples diapers or spoon feed them. You do not have to work on the chain gang breaking up rocks, or pick up trash on the side of the freeway. Things you'd expect to see criminals doing to complete community service.

The internet forum I linked to is the same exact article as the nj.com one that you have above. It has the exact same information. So where did you get the info on choosing another way of fulfilling the educational requirement? Where did ya find the stuff about the rainforest? Not from the nj.com article. Again it is the exactly same as mine and does not mention any of what you are talking about. Just wondering.

 

[pygmy]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

21stcav, try reading page 4 and not just the front cover:
http://www.nj.com/news/times/regional/index.ssf?/base/news-18/1252388710151040.xml&coll=5&thispage=4