Different types of bias

[packerbacker]

I don't know what bias' I have but I do know, if I think someone is full of it, I let them know or ignore them completely. I don't have a list that I go through before responding to make sure I'm being socially correct.

 

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[bill from lachine]

Spart,

There's a friend who lives nearby.....goes by the pen name Aislin aka Terry Mosher....probably the best caricaturist/satirist
in Canada and has won more awards than you can imagine.....does loads of charity work a very intelligent and interesting person....you living in NYC area you've probably heard the term mensch.....that term describes him to a tee.

I'm proud to consider him as a friend because of who he is as a person....all the awards in the world don't faze him one bit.

Do a google search if you'd like to see some of his work.

Regards + HH

Bill

Bill, like you, we were both in high end sales and sadly for me those days are gone. Done the international thing for a while too and I have to laugh because some people never even left their state and I had great opportunities. I like what I do now too, it got me back into great shape.

As a matter of fact this scenario fits perfectly into the bias topic. Paraphrasing The Great One, I just hope that some dolts remember to be nice to the people as they climb the ladder, because they'll meet the same people on the way down.

 

[hvacker]

Don't you think bias is the motor that make decisions possible. Bias has a negative connotation for some reason as it seems like a stacked deck. Decisions based not on facts but on bias itself. That being said, I'm not sure a decision can be made w/o bias. I'd go further and say our bias's are who we are. Personality traits.

 

[Crispin]

Don't you think bias is the motor that make decisions possible. Bias has a negative connotation for some reason as it seems like a stacked deck. Decisions based not on facts but on bias itself. That being said, I'm not sure a decision can be made w/o bias. I'd go further and say our bias's are who we are. Personality traits.

hvacker: Sounds like your talking more about prejudice then bias. Prejudice has that same negative connotation because it is usually thrown in with racism. If we did not have prejudice then we would not be able to interact with our environment. Prejudice is simply a preformed opinion. For example, if I told you I was going to introduce you one of my friends who is a basketball player then you would probably expect him to be tall. This may not necessarily be the case but it is a reasonable prejudice. Another example, if I told you I was taking you on a trip to Maine to see Dieselram you would probably pack warm clothes. It will most likely be cold but not necessarily. Prejudice is a combination of upbringing, education, and personality.

Bias, as I was using the term. Is based on a faulty cognitive processing or filtering of information. It is the opposite of prejudice. Prejudice is a preformed opinion making a judgment on something to occur. Bias is faulty interpretation of facts after occurrence. One does not necessarily preclude the other and they frequently coincide. However, when broken down, they are fundamentally different.

 

[hvacker]

hvacker: Sounds like your talking more about prejudice then bias. Prejudice has that same negative connotation because it is usually thrown in with racism. If we did not have prejudice then we would not be able to interact with our environment. Prejudice is simply a preformed opinion. For example, if I told you I was going to introduce you one of my friends who is a basketball player then you would probably expect him to be tall. This may not necessarily be the case but it is a reasonable prejudice. Another example, if I told you I was taking you on a trip to Maine to see Dieselram you would probably pack warm clothes. It will most likely be cold but not necessarily. Prejudice is a combination of upbringing, education, and personality.

Bias, as I was using the term. Is based on a faulty cognitive processing or filtering of information. It is the opposite of prejudice. Prejudice is a preformed opinion making a judgment on something to occur. Bias is faulty interpretation of facts after occurrence. One does not necessarily preclude the other and they frequently coincide. However, when broken down, they are fundamentally different.

What your calling prejudice I would call assumption. If I assume it's going to rain I'll take my umbrella. Actually I don't have an umbrella but you understand. Your basketball example I would call an assumption. A prejudice for me would be like the word says, to pre judge and usually involves a mental preset. I really see little difference between bias, prejudice and assumption.
Why do bias' have to be negative. Isn't our interpretation of reality (phenomenon) predisposed by our bias'? It seems to me few see the world without filtering it first through our expectations, prejudices, assumptions. Aren't people that can't filter phenomenon called nuts?

 

[bevo]

I'm unbiasedly bias.

 

[bill from lachine]

bevo,

Now you're getting me confused....lol.

I'm unbiasedly bias.

 

[Crispin]

What your calling prejudice I would call assumption. If I assume it's going to rain I'll take my umbrella. Actually I don't have an umbrella but you understand. Your basketball example I would call an assumption. A prejudice for me would be like the word says, to pre judge and usually involves a mental preset. I really see little difference between bias, prejudice and assumption.
Why do bias' have to be negative. Isn't our interpretation of reality (phenomenon) predisposed by our bias'? It seems to me few see the world without filtering it first through our expectations, prejudices, assumptions. Aren't people that can't filter phenomenon called nuts?

Good counterpoints!
I agree, it is impossible to see the world without some kind of filter, expectation, prejudice, or assumption. If we woke up in the morning without any of those things we would have no idea how to dress, no idea how to drive, no idea what people we would meet, no idea how to do our job...etc. When I examine patients I attempt to remove all types of prejudice and judgments so I can best treat them. However, I immediately start to filter into categories. Did this person have a stroke? A seizure? Is this depression? Is this pseudodementia? Is this bipolar? I care very little for the actual diagnosis but I use my knowledge, education, and experience to filter things in and out. If I looked at every new pt. without these things it would take me forever and I would make a lot of mistakes. What makes a good doctor different from a bad one is the ability to back the filter up and acknowledge when one made a mistake. But, I digress.

I don't think bias is negative. It simply is...kind of a zen thing. However, to interpret data without acknowledging possible bias is a negative thing. Good research articles will briefly mention the types of bias in their paper to make the reader more aware.

I disagree with your definitions of assumption vs. prejudice vs. bias. I think prejudice is intimately tied to preformed constructs of the world. I think assumptions are not necessarily so. Let us take the theoretical example from my other thread and break down the three.
Bias: Availability bias: people use most recent examples as the norm. Sandy Hook killer may have been schizo, the pt. in the theoretical example is schizo. Both of these schizophrenics are violent; therefore, most schizophrenics are violent. (This is fundamentally wrong, most schizophrenics are not violent.)
Assumption: Pt. in example is schizophrenic, pt. will most likely walk into a school and kill kids. No, in fact, pt's violence is directed towards pt's boss and pt's self.
Prejudice: Pt. is schizophrenic. Therefore, she is probably homeless. Again, false, pt. has a job.

People that can't filter phenomenon are indeed nuts...I cite Bill and Spartacus as examples.

 

[spartacus53]

People that can't filter phenomenon are indeed nuts...I cite Bill and Spartacus as examples.

Oh, Bill and I filter things, too bad our filters are like sieves

You know that little thing inside your head that stops you from saying certain things

Yeah, I don't have one of those

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Oh, Bill and I filter things, too bad our filters are like sieves

You know that little thing inside your head that stops you from saying certain things

Yeah, I don't have one of those

LOL! ALL in ALL, it is good. Ends up in PRE-SELECTIVE decision making, PRE-SELECTIVE reading, PRE-SELECTIVE... EVERYTHING! It's a LAW OF ATTRACTION thing; "LIKE attracts LIKE"; SOME "pro-filing" is BOUND to happen... DO ZaZen; "DO... NOT try... DO!" (Yoda at 850 years of age). Yoda lives til 900 years of age, then TRANSFORMED... to become BUDDHA I.

 

[hvacker]

Prejudices seem pre conceived and ridgid and assumptions might be at that moment. Your example of the basketball player was assumed to be tall. Because I don't follow basketball I also assumed the player was tall and black as most I've seen on TV were tall and black and from my own experience I know white guys can't jump. (another assumption)
When bias', expectations, and assumptions really get in the way is in working in an area dealing with science or even some tech fields. If a scientist or tech, for instance, doesn't approach a problem with a blank slate they will be doing bad science. Scientific Method says to begin with a question not an answer.
People naturally practice Scientific Method. It's our nature just as logic is. It can surprise Techs when they discover they have been practicing scientific method and didn't know what it was. But something happens when a person fails to follow the steps in the Method and takes short cuts. That's the best way to get wrong answers.
For those that don't believe people are naturally logical here is a question.
Statement: All men die. Socrates is a man. Therefore Socrates will.....................Logic is nature. It's just that we throw a monkey wrench in the gears. Were also naturally Luddites.
Feels like a Friday.

 

[Crispin]

Prejudices seem pre conceived and ridgid and assumptions might be at that moment. Your example of the basketball player was assumed to be tall. Because I don't follow basketball I also assumed the player was tall and black as most I've seen on TV were tall and black and from my own experience I know white guys can't jump. (another assumption)
When bias', expectations, and assumptions really get in the way is in working in an area dealing with science or even some tech fields. If a scientist or tech, for instance, doesn't approach a problem with a blank slate they will be doing bad science. Scientific Method says to begin with a question not an answer.
People naturally practice Scientific Method. It's our nature just as logic is. It can surprise Techs when they discover they have been practicing scientific method and didn't know what it was. But something happens when a person fails to follow the steps in the Method and takes short cuts. That's the best way to get wrong answers.
For those that don't believe people are naturally logical here is a question.
Statement: All men die. Socrates is a man. Therefore Socrates will.....................Logic is nature. It's just that we throw a monkey wrench in the gears. Were also naturally Luddites.
Feels like a Friday.

Sure does feel like a Friday. I'll take the blame for that. This has been a monstrously vicious and stressful week.

If I remember correctly, which I may not, the Scientific Method begins with the Null hypothesis. Given certain parameters of specificity one can either reject the null hypothesis or fail to reject the null hypothesis. Are we talking about the same thing here or is starting off by asking a question a different type of thing?

 

[Peyton Manning]

<wonders if Crispin is really that highbrow or only wants to seem so

 

[Crispin]

<wonders if Crispin is really that highbrow or only wants to seem so

I used to have a unibrow but now my wife makes me shave the middle. She refuses to go out in public with me if I don't.

 

[bill from lachine]

Spart,

That pretty much covers things...lol.....

When people expect us to zig we zag and vice versa.......me thinks people would find us pretty boring if they could figure out how we would respond to a given post, etc....

Better to keep them off balance....it gives us an edge.....I don't think we're any nuttier than some of the other characters on here.....maybe just a bit crunchier than most....lol.

Regards + HH

Bill

Oh, Bill and I filter things, too bad our filters are like sieves

You know that little thing inside your head that stops you from saying certain things

Yeah, I don't have one of those

 

[bill from lachine]

jeff,

Naw....he's just as crazy as the rest of us....he just comes at it from more of an intellectual angle.....heck whenever he posts I have to google some of the words he uses to find out what he's saying....I'm sure he does it just to p*ss me off....but then again I'm fairly erudite when I put my mind to it.....I wasn't quite sure what he said in the penultimate paragraph of an earlier post....lol.

<wonders if Crispin is really that highbrow or only wants to seem so

 

[Crispin]

jeff,

Naw....he's just as crazy as the rest of us....he just comes at it from more of an intellectual angle.....heck whenever he posts I have to google some of the words he uses to find out what he's saying....I'm sure he does it just to p*ss me off....but then again I'm fairly erudite when I put my mind to it.....I wasn't quite sure what he said in the penultimate paragraph of an earlier post....lol.

Bill,

The sad thing is that I was trying to humorous in the above post on the null hypothesis. I figured Hvacker is in the research field and would just poke him a little with a stick to see how he replied. Jeff had to go get all serious on me and take all the fun away. Lighten up Jeff, you take things too seriously. New physician order for the BBCamay club: When thinking seriousness of things that are naturally less then seriously serious one must put straws in ones nose.

Jeff, when you go to the ice cream shop do you order a single scoop? My grandfather had a song about that: Single scooper, single scooper, this man is a party pooper.

Crispin

 

[bill from lachine]

jeff,

I've had the good fortune or perhaps misfortune of discussing, debating, or whatever you want to call it with some pretty brainy people....including Harvard MBAs......I've more than held my own with them and then some....

But one thing I've learned most of the smartest have an awesome sense of humor and are not above poking fun even at themselves....they just take their brains as a given and don't make a big deal of it....Crispin and Spart fall in that category....and they push me to the limits sometimes in both challenging my brains and my humor....we just play off each others foolishness/twisted sense of humor....and try to have a few chuckles along the way and maybe amuse others as a byproduct.

Regards + HH

Bill

 

[0121stockpicker]

Crispin, apparently RJC is making fun of what I now do as a living. No big deal, it's an honest living. I'm proud to say what I do and could care less about how much I make.

Besides, I don't judge anyone by their occupation, everyone is entitled to make ends meet.

On a side note, you know what one of those sweepers costs - it's a bloody fortune!!

 

[hvacker]

Null hypothesis? Maybe null thesis. Especially on Friday. Me thinks Rebel lives in an antithesis or maybe like a Zen non-thesis. Is there a multi-thesis for those that are indecisive?

Unlike Spartacus, i do judge people by their occupation. For instance, I don't like burglars and a few others. He probably doesn't either.

Not sure where "High Brow"comes from. Many people have no one to talk with. Engage ideas. Even family might roll their eyes if challenging ideas are brought up. Some might even question why your the way you are. Two choices might be.. Engage people or live in your head.