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Thread: Cop Told me to stop and I said...

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  1. #41

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    5,713
    1502 times
    Banner Finds (3)

    reply

    Ace, just remember, all those type clauses that disallow "disturbance", "alteration" "defacement" "vandalism", and so forth, ALL distinctly imply the end result. So by logical definition, if you leave the area exactly as you found it (left no trace of your presence), then, technically, you have not "disturbed", "altered", "defaced", or "vandalized" ANYTHING, now have you? Sure someone can dispute our semantics on this, and take issue with the temporary evil interim process of extraction. Sure. Simply avoid them, because there's no way you're going to avoid the connotations this hobby has, and get permission to vandalize, alter, destroy, and deface any park. Those rules are in every park, everywhere, in the entire USA, on every level (city, county, and state). I mean, duh, who is going to allow you to "vandalize" things? So you simply can not define yourself in those terms. Otherwise, you've lost the battle already. Find another hobby.

    Now the other issue in your text, about prohibiting removing of "historic ... artifacts" .... well, I suspect that if you asked them for a definition, they'd probably say "anything 50 yrs. old or older". Again this will be an issue of if you ask enough questions, you can ALWAYS preclude yourself, from the most innocuous of sandboxes (just throw out words like "dig", and "treasure" and "arpa" and "indian bone" and "liability" to enough city workers, and I can gaurantee you, that I can get any sandbox shut down for everyone). But ask yourself: Is anyone really standing over your shoulder, with a calculator, doing the math on the dates of the coins you find? I mean ....... really now. Just tell them your finding clad, or looking for that ring your wife lost there last week!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace350 View Post
    Tom_in_CA,
    I see your point. It's a good one.
    Then I guess the best way to go about it and not have your rights infringed would be to find out the local laws and ordinances.

    I looked up the rules for my states parks.
    I know in NJ they can always use this rule if youre digging in state parks and your town may have something on the books like this one.
    Look at (A) & (C)

    7:2-2.10 (Damage to Propert/tampering [digging])
    (Rangers use this rule for digging)
    (a) A person shall not abuse, mutilate, injure, destroy, move or remove any plant or animal or natural resource on lands and water under the jurisdiction or control of the State Park Service without having first obtained the permission of the Superintendent or designee. Authorized fish, game and wildlife activities are excepted.
    (b) A person shall not deface damage, move or remove any furniture, equipment, structure, or physical feature of any kind on lands and waters under the jurisdiction or control of the State Park Service without the permission of the Superintendent or designee.
    (c) A person shall not dig up, deface, or remove any soil, rock, historic or fossil materials or artifacts without written permission of the Director of the Division of Parks and Forestry or the Assistant Director of the Division for the State Park Service.
    (d) A person shall not disturb, remove, damage, destroy or interfere with the pumps, pipes, gates, wires, dams, works and equipment of the State Park Service incident to the flow of water.
    (e) An unauthorized person shall not open or enter any manhole or confined space without the specific approval of the Superintendent or designee.



    If you can hunt there, when you dig, make the smallest plug you can making a V shape and flipping it over so as not to cut all the roots and possibly kill the grass in the plug. Put all the dirt on a rag or plastic sheet then use it to dump the dirt back in hole leaving no dirt on the adjacent grass and no trace of your plug. Maybe even spray the roots with water before replacing the plug.
    Take all trash out of holes dug and dump in trash can. Also use trash to show people when asked what you are doing that you are helping by taking the trash out of the park.
    Hunt in the early morning hours when the park first opens and there are very few people in it. That's called discression, you may have the right to hunt the park, but not flaunting that right in the middle of the day will help avoid problems and inconvienienances for you.
    Also hunting early you might run into park workers. If they approach you, explain MDing to them, show them that you are not killing the grass, not leaving a trace of your digging and cleaning up the trash found. Be friendly with them. I have heard where people have done this and been told by the grounds keeper where there are good places to hunt and where people used to gather in the old days for big town events and fairs.
    Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!

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  3. #42
    us
    Ridgecrawler

    Jan 2011
    East central Ohio
    ATPRO
    66
    16 times
    Metal Detecting
    I always ask permission to hunt whether a State park, City park, old churches, ball fields or private property. one local city park has the park rules posted at the entrance to the park. one rule is no metal detectors, I asked and received permission to hunt. In two years I have not been turned down and have not had to watch over my shoulder, makes hunting a lot easier.

  4. #43

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    5,713
    1502 times
    Banner Finds (3)
    Quote Originally Posted by ridgecrawler View Post
    I asked and received permission to hunt. In two years I have not been turned down
    Ridgecrawler, regarding the place that had a specific "no detecting", sure, ask away. But I must address the quote from you above:

    This reply is not an uncommon one, put forth by people when this subject comes up. It works like this: A person asks for permission at a public place, and receives a "yes." So then, in-lieu of this topic, they think "what's the problem? I've asked, and gotten a yes, so therefore, it's a good thing I asked". Or even if they get a "no", they still think the same thing "gee, it's a good thing I asked then! pheeww".

    But do you see the logical error of this? Getting either a "yes" or a "no" STILL does not mean "ergo, it was good to have asked" or that "see, others should ask". Because did you really think the person fielding your question, was going to say

    "Oh that's silly. Why are you asking me? You don't need to ask that. If it's not prohibited, why would you be asking us that?
    ".

    No. On the contrary. Whomever you ask will bestow on you their princely "no" or "yes", because afterall: the mere fact you're standing in front of them asking, merely implies that their permission, was needed, TO BEGIN WITH (lest why would you be standing their asking, if it didn't need some sort of sanction?).

    So persons who walk out of city halls with "yes's" or "no's", don't mean a whole lot, other than you asked someone what their personal whims were, and ...... depending on their mood, and the way you phrased it, you got a yes or a no. It does not mean "ergo, people should ask". Glad you got yes's! Just curious: did you be sure to mention "digging"? Or did you just use the euphamism "metal detect"?

    I don't "look over my shoulder" either
    Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!

 

 
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