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Thread: Cop Told me to stop and I said...

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  1. #31
    us
    It's dangerous to be right when those with a thimbleful of perceived authority are wrong.

    Mar 2012
    Michigan
    White's MXT, DFX, GMT and Fisher F5
    811
    121 times
    Metal Detecting
    Quote Originally Posted by ticm View Post
    There are two sides to a story somewhere in the middle lies the truth.
    Um yeah. I should say that being caught red handed with stolen evidence, planting evidence (taped) and being caught on video and audio surveillance abusing prisoners and lying about things is pretty much cut and dried.
    I should think that was pretty "truthful"

    I'm done with this, it is just back and forth bickering, I like you ticm and I respect your opinion, but you unfortunately I can't make you see what I saw.
    That they're not all "good" nor are they all "heroic."
    Which is a shame, because the good ones have to deal with that.

  2. #32
    us
    Sep 2007
    New Jersey
    Whites V3i and DFX
    3,212
    790 times
    Hey who loves you man.
    Diggit likes this.

  3. #33
    Charter Member
    us
    Oct 2007
    Summit County, CO
    White's DFX, White's Classic 1 Coinmaster
    5,435
    1311 times
    Sorry you had that encounter. Must have been a slow day law enforcement wise. I was LE for 25 years. Only once did I get crossways with a detectorist, and that was while working as a state park ranger. Some strange folks decided to shut down the meth lab for the day and cruise yard sales, where they picked up a very cheap metal detector. They came to the park armed with a few long handled shovels and dug big holes in one of the day use areas, threw out the beer cans they found, and left the holes. I very seriously took care of them. I hear they have a TV show based on that sort of activity now, but who would have known. Metal dectecting in Oklahoma state parks is allowed at the discretion of the park manager. We never worried much about it. I detected in my off duty hours. We did move the novice detectorists off the swim beach areas, and would tell them to come back when people weren't around. I detect the parks up here, but I do it in the off hours. Never a problem with the cops, so far. I detect or 'prospect' in the national forests here, but just mainly modern campsite areas. Had one encounter with a ranger there, who said 'Well, how's that square nail collection comin along?' (Smart a$$. I guess you're famous when even park rangers know what you find.)
    QuarterMaster and Diggit like this.
    Just like Texas in 1880.

  4. #34
    us
    Nov 2011
    8
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    I'm lucky cause in my area cops only talk to you if signs are posted against metal detecting. Usually even if there are signs they still don't care.
    You can't find it unless you look first...

  5. #35

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    6,117
    1778 times
    Banner Finds (3)
    another thought occured to me, along the lines of Terry's advice of "never hunt parks before 9am". The notion being, of course, is that we md'rs need to use a little .... uh .... "discretion" to simply not be in busy-bodies lines of sites, to begin with. Like nose-picking, you're ok if you don't parade it around, but no........ no one asks "can I pick my nose?".

    And I notice that you say this is a one-cop town. That said, wouldn't it be logical to assume he's got a particular shift? Ie.: 8 to 5, or noon to 9, or whatever? So in the same way none of us would expect to parade ourselves in front of fidgety landscapers on their day to mow and maintain a park, then so too would I discern when other such lookie-lous (the cop in this case), is slated to be on duty.

    Some may say "this is lawlessness" and so forth. But no, in the case of no actual written prohbitions in city code (and simply a case of a cop who nilly willy decides or morphs other things just 'cuz he's bored), then ....... I see nothing wrong with simply avoiding "just that one person". I mean, why kick a hornet's nest? Just avoid that one person's shift in the future. This is assuming, of course, his house isn't right there across the street or something.
    K Zack likes this.
    Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!

  6. #36
    us
    Jul 2009
    Whiting, NJ
    Ace 250
    10,507
    991 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by ticm View Post
    There are two sides to a story somewhere in the middle lies the truth.
    I somewhat disagree with that old adage. Yes, there are 2 ides, but I normally tell both. I'm good like that

    Here's another old adage that would fit. It's all in the luck of the draw.. Like many said, there are good officers, bad officers and officers that just want to be a pain. Learn how to deal with all of them

  7. #37
    us
    Apr 2012
    The Jersey Shore
    Ace350/ATpro/Excalibur1000/ Eldorado/BandidoII uMax/Silver Sabre uMax/Compadre/ Garrett Pro-Pointer/Lesche digger model 75/ RTG stainless Beachmaster scoop/Stealth S3i Sugarsand Scoop
    536
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Wow, this turned in to a cop bashing thread.

    How about, instead of pissing and moaning about cops, we do something constructive and give GoldenEagle some useful advice.

    Like perhaps how to go about getting permission to hunt in his local parks.

    Maybe a lawyer type could even help him draft a proper letter to the Mayor.

    Come on guys, I thought this was a forum for learing and helping each other out with treasure hunting, not the OPRA show.
    One must be smarter than the equipment they are working with!

  8. #38
    us
    Pirate Captain

    Apr 2012
    Arrrrgh.
    90
    5 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quick story that is a life lesson. When I was 18ish two friends and I got VERY drunk and were looking for trouble. One of the friends got the idea that we should get on top of the High School roof and drink more there. (brilliant I know) So we did just that. Surprise, surprise the police showed up. We got off of the roof and "talked" to the two policemen. My friends were EXTREMELY abrasive and I was "yes sir, no sir, sorry sir" They got hauled off to jail. I was told to walk home.

    The end.
    My free puzzle/riddle/code website IS ALIVE! http://www.treasuredhunt.com

  9. #39

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    6,117
    1778 times
    Banner Finds (3)

    reply

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace350 View Post
    Like perhaps how to go about getting permission to hunt in his local parks.
    Only if there is a specific prohibition, to begin with. Otherwise, thinking you "need permission", is like thinking you "need permission" to fly a frisbee, or skip stones on the pond.

    Sure, this doesn't stop a cop from morphing something ELSE to apply (like that they think you'll leave a mess, etc...). So too could the cop stop someone from flying a frisbee ('cuz you might poke someone's eye out), or skipping stones on the pond (because it disturbs the fish and wildlife mating).

    Because the thing I would be afraid of, thinking I need to "pre-empt" potential morphings by busy-bodies, is that I might end up with a "no", from a deskbound bureaucrat, and simply preclude myself from hunting a park, where no one would actually have cared. This happened, for example, in my town: a newbie took it upon himself to waltz into city hall and "ask permission" (afterall, you can't be too safe, eh?). He found someone to tell him "no" (perhaps someone had images of geeks with shovels?? who knows!). But what was odd was, the parks here had simply been detected for ages, and no one cared! So now all of the sudden, when news of this newbie's answer circulated around, it was as if ...... "oh no, does this mean we can't hunt parks here now?". You see how it can back-fire, and simply become a self-fulfilling "squeeky wheel"? And then guess what will happen the next time that deskbound bureaucrat passes the park, and see another md'r out there (whom they'd probably never have noticed or given second glance to)? They'll remember the earlier inquiry, and start booting others! I've seen this happen.

    So ... no ... if there's no specific prohibition, then just go. But for pete's sake, be a little discreet on timing issues, as just 'cuz there's no prohibitions, doesn't mean we should go kick hornet's nests.
    Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!

  10. #40
    us
    Apr 2012
    The Jersey Shore
    Ace350/ATpro/Excalibur1000/ Eldorado/BandidoII uMax/Silver Sabre uMax/Compadre/ Garrett Pro-Pointer/Lesche digger model 75/ RTG stainless Beachmaster scoop/Stealth S3i Sugarsand Scoop
    536
    151 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Tom_in_CA,
    I see your point. It's a good one.
    Then I guess the best way to go about it and not have your rights infringed would be to find out the local laws and ordinances.

    I looked up the rules for my states parks.
    I know in NJ they can always use this rule if youre digging in state parks and your town may have something on the books like this one.
    Look at (A) & (C)

    7:2-2.10 (Damage to Propert/tampering [digging])
    (Rangers use this rule for digging)
    (a) A person shall not abuse, mutilate, injure, destroy, move or remove any plant or animal or natural resource on lands and water under the jurisdiction or control of the State Park Service without having first obtained the permission of the Superintendent or designee. Authorized fish, game and wildlife activities are excepted.
    (b) A person shall not deface damage, move or remove any furniture, equipment, structure, or physical feature of any kind on lands and waters under the jurisdiction or control of the State Park Service without the permission of the Superintendent or designee.
    (c) A person shall not dig up, deface, or remove any soil, rock, historic or fossil materials or artifacts without written permission of the Director of the Division of Parks and Forestry or the Assistant Director of the Division for the State Park Service.
    (d) A person shall not disturb, remove, damage, destroy or interfere with the pumps, pipes, gates, wires, dams, works and equipment of the State Park Service incident to the flow of water.
    (e) An unauthorized person shall not open or enter any manhole or confined space without the specific approval of the Superintendent or designee.



    If you can hunt there, when you dig, make the smallest plug you can making a V shape and flipping it over so as not to cut all the roots and possibly kill the grass in the plug. Put all the dirt on a rag or plastic sheet then use it to dump the dirt back in hole leaving no dirt on the adjacent grass and no trace of your plug. Maybe even spray the roots with water before replacing the plug.
    Take all trash out of holes dug and dump in trash can. Also use trash to show people when asked what you are doing that you are helping by taking the trash out of the park.
    Hunt in the early morning hours when the park first opens and there are very few people in it. That's called discression, you may have the right to hunt the park, but not flaunting that right in the middle of the day will help avoid problems and inconvienienances for you.
    Also hunting early you might run into park workers. If they approach you, explain MDing to them, show them that you are not killing the grass, not leaving a trace of your digging and cleaning up the trash found. Be friendly with them. I have heard where people have done this and been told by the grounds keeper where there are good places to hunt and where people used to gather in the old days for big town events and fairs.
    One must be smarter than the equipment they are working with!

  11. #41

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    6,117
    1778 times
    Banner Finds (3)

    reply

    Ace, just remember, all those type clauses that disallow "disturbance", "alteration" "defacement" "vandalism", and so forth, ALL distinctly imply the end result. So by logical definition, if you leave the area exactly as you found it (left no trace of your presence), then, technically, you have not "disturbed", "altered", "defaced", or "vandalized" ANYTHING, now have you? Sure someone can dispute our semantics on this, and take issue with the temporary evil interim process of extraction. Sure. Simply avoid them, because there's no way you're going to avoid the connotations this hobby has, and get permission to vandalize, alter, destroy, and deface any park. Those rules are in every park, everywhere, in the entire USA, on every level (city, county, and state). I mean, duh, who is going to allow you to "vandalize" things? So you simply can not define yourself in those terms. Otherwise, you've lost the battle already. Find another hobby.

    Now the other issue in your text, about prohibiting removing of "historic ... artifacts" .... well, I suspect that if you asked them for a definition, they'd probably say "anything 50 yrs. old or older". Again this will be an issue of if you ask enough questions, you can ALWAYS preclude yourself, from the most innocuous of sandboxes (just throw out words like "dig", and "treasure" and "arpa" and "indian bone" and "liability" to enough city workers, and I can gaurantee you, that I can get any sandbox shut down for everyone). But ask yourself: Is anyone really standing over your shoulder, with a calculator, doing the math on the dates of the coins you find? I mean ....... really now. Just tell them your finding clad, or looking for that ring your wife lost there last week!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace350 View Post
    Tom_in_CA,
    I see your point. It's a good one.
    Then I guess the best way to go about it and not have your rights infringed would be to find out the local laws and ordinances.

    I looked up the rules for my states parks.
    I know in NJ they can always use this rule if youre digging in state parks and your town may have something on the books like this one.
    Look at (A) & (C)

    7:2-2.10 (Damage to Propert/tampering [digging])
    (Rangers use this rule for digging)
    (a) A person shall not abuse, mutilate, injure, destroy, move or remove any plant or animal or natural resource on lands and water under the jurisdiction or control of the State Park Service without having first obtained the permission of the Superintendent or designee. Authorized fish, game and wildlife activities are excepted.
    (b) A person shall not deface damage, move or remove any furniture, equipment, structure, or physical feature of any kind on lands and waters under the jurisdiction or control of the State Park Service without the permission of the Superintendent or designee.
    (c) A person shall not dig up, deface, or remove any soil, rock, historic or fossil materials or artifacts without written permission of the Director of the Division of Parks and Forestry or the Assistant Director of the Division for the State Park Service.
    (d) A person shall not disturb, remove, damage, destroy or interfere with the pumps, pipes, gates, wires, dams, works and equipment of the State Park Service incident to the flow of water.
    (e) An unauthorized person shall not open or enter any manhole or confined space without the specific approval of the Superintendent or designee.



    If you can hunt there, when you dig, make the smallest plug you can making a V shape and flipping it over so as not to cut all the roots and possibly kill the grass in the plug. Put all the dirt on a rag or plastic sheet then use it to dump the dirt back in hole leaving no dirt on the adjacent grass and no trace of your plug. Maybe even spray the roots with water before replacing the plug.
    Take all trash out of holes dug and dump in trash can. Also use trash to show people when asked what you are doing that you are helping by taking the trash out of the park.
    Hunt in the early morning hours when the park first opens and there are very few people in it. That's called discression, you may have the right to hunt the park, but not flaunting that right in the middle of the day will help avoid problems and inconvienienances for you.
    Also hunting early you might run into park workers. If they approach you, explain MDing to them, show them that you are not killing the grass, not leaving a trace of your digging and cleaning up the trash found. Be friendly with them. I have heard where people have done this and been told by the grounds keeper where there are good places to hunt and where people used to gather in the old days for big town events and fairs.
    Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!

  12. #42
    us
    Ridgecrawler

    Jan 2011
    East central Ohio
    ATPRO
    67
    16 times
    Metal Detecting
    I always ask permission to hunt whether a State park, City park, old churches, ball fields or private property. one local city park has the park rules posted at the entrance to the park. one rule is no metal detectors, I asked and received permission to hunt. In two years I have not been turned down and have not had to watch over my shoulder, makes hunting a lot easier.

  13. #43

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    6,117
    1778 times
    Banner Finds (3)
    Quote Originally Posted by ridgecrawler View Post
    I asked and received permission to hunt. In two years I have not been turned down
    Ridgecrawler, regarding the place that had a specific "no detecting", sure, ask away. But I must address the quote from you above:

    This reply is not an uncommon one, put forth by people when this subject comes up. It works like this: A person asks for permission at a public place, and receives a "yes." So then, in-lieu of this topic, they think "what's the problem? I've asked, and gotten a yes, so therefore, it's a good thing I asked". Or even if they get a "no", they still think the same thing "gee, it's a good thing I asked then! pheeww".

    But do you see the logical error of this? Getting either a "yes" or a "no" STILL does not mean "ergo, it was good to have asked" or that "see, others should ask". Because did you really think the person fielding your question, was going to say

    "Oh that's silly. Why are you asking me? You don't need to ask that. If it's not prohibited, why would you be asking us that?
    ".

    No. On the contrary. Whomever you ask will bestow on you their princely "no" or "yes", because afterall: the mere fact you're standing in front of them asking, merely implies that their permission, was needed, TO BEGIN WITH (lest why would you be standing their asking, if it didn't need some sort of sanction?).

    So persons who walk out of city halls with "yes's" or "no's", don't mean a whole lot, other than you asked someone what their personal whims were, and ...... depending on their mood, and the way you phrased it, you got a yes or a no. It does not mean "ergo, people should ask". Glad you got yes's! Just curious: did you be sure to mention "digging"? Or did you just use the euphamism "metal detect"?

    I don't "look over my shoulder" either
    Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!

 

 
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