what is a realistic depth to expect?

[cjon455]

ok, im more than satisfied with my ace 350 but have a question. Im wondering about some of these 8" plus signals i get with it and when i dig them to china, its usually a can, some chunk of steel, or something other than a coin. That being said, i have dug several upon several wheaties in the early 1920-30s range at around the 8inch depth at our favorite site but thought it may have been a fluke. Does the ace350 like pennies and dimes more than others?, just today i dug a clad dime at 7", long story short, is it humanly possible for this machine to find the goods like barbers or seated at a deeper depth like 8". oh yeah i should mention i did do a test plug in my yard with a standing liberty we had, it found it no problem at 4 and 6 but was a bit sketchy at 8, i had to pinpoint the hell out of it to locate it. any help is appreciated...

 

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[ticm]

Just wondering why you choose the ace 350.

 

[cjon455]

Just wondering why you choose the ace 350.

only thing that was decent in my budget, i wanted the atpro but too much going on at the moment with vacation, school clothes for the kids, yada yada lol

 

[Recyclablesteele]

I've wondered the same thing. Wheaties and dimes seem to come up pretty strong from 6" to 8". I haven't found coins deeper then 8" but I also don't really know what the iffy signals are on the 350. If it rings up 6" or more and is above pull tab I usually dig it. How did the standing liberty ring up in your test plug?

 

[TerryC]

455, Not to be over simplistic but 6 to 8 ninches is a goodly average. I have been coinshooting for 40+ years and find that a good target at plus 8 inches is possible but mostly in the all metal mode and with larger than ordinary coils. Silver coins will create a "halo" around it if not disturbed for many years. That is a PLUS for you and I as those deep silvers become possible because of it. Others will get on here and tell of DEEP targets on a regular basis. That is certainly possible, with a LARGE amount of outlay for a detector and equipment. I'm talking about average machines in the hands of average detectorists. My GB2 will sound a nickle at probably 17/18 inches but that is because it has special ground balance circuits that allow such things in certain soils. The average machine is not set up for that. TTC

 

[cjon455]

455, Not to be over simplistic but 6 to 8 ninches is a goodly average. I have been coinshooting for 40+ years and find that a good target at plus 8 inches is possible but mostly in the all metal mode and with larger than ordinary coils. Silver coins will create a "halo" around it if not disturbed for many years. That is a PLUS for you and I as those deep silvers become possible because of it. Others will get on here and tell of DEEP targets on a regular basis. That is certainly possible, with a LARGE amount of outlay for a detector and equipment. I'm talking about average machines in the hands of average detectorists. My GB2 will sound a nickle at probably 17/18 inches but that is because it has special ground balance circuits that allow such things in certain soils. The average machine is not set up for that. TTC

thanks pal, sheesh, i couldnt imagine digging 17-18", not in this heat at least.....

 

[U.K. Brian]

You should put a simple test bed in your garden before buying another detector and it will help you get the best from the detector you have now.

Don't do the standard lots of items so you can learn sounds type. Just take select a few coins of one type doesn't really matter if silver, nickel or copper. Them bury at increasing depths five inchs, six inches, seven etc. Thump the ground down and water it to help it recove to its undug state (many detectors will use the hole to seem to add to their performance). It won't be perfect for a few years but will do for comparing one detector with another now. Many of the "best" detectors you will see recommended may well give better depth over other detectors but your new test bed will show that I.D., tone or VDI it doesn't matter, at some point beyond seven inches will be indicating a good target as iron. An on the face of it less deep detector could in real life use indicate correctly inches deeper and be the better choice if you don't want to dig it all.

Don't even consider halo as helping in getting increased depth apart from iron and alloy coins that will have become worthless in the forming of the "halo". Good quality copper, pure silver etc will develop a nice patina and not produce a halo if mineralisation is not extreme. You want good finds that are collectable. Last don't consider a bigger coil is going to get you more depth. If your detector is struggling on bad ground with its stock coil then going bigger will only make it worse. I.D. will also become more inaccurate with more ground effect and the possibility of more than one target under the coil.

 

[TerryC]

You should put a simple test bed in your garden before buying another detector and it will help you get the best from the detector you have now.

Don't do the standard lots of items so you can learn sounds type. Just take select a few coins of one type doesn't really matter if silver, nickel or copper. Them bury at increasing depths five inchs, six inches, seven etc. Thump the ground down and water it to help it recove to its undug state (many detectors will use the hole to seem to add to their performance). It won't be perfect for a few years but will do for comparing one detector with another now. Many of the "best" detectors you will see recommended may well give better depth over other detectors but your new test bed will show that I.D., tone or VDI it doesn't matter, at some point beyond seven inches will be indicating a good target as iron. An on the face of it less deep detector could in real life use indicate correctly inches deeper and be the better choice if you don't want to dig it all.

Don't even consider halo as helping in getting increased depth apart from iron and alloy coins that will have become worthless in the forming of the "halo". Good quality copper, pure silver etc will develop a nice patina and not produce a halo if mineralisation is not extreme. You want good finds that are collectable. Last don't consider a bigger coil is going to get you more depth. If your detector is struggling on bad ground with its stock coil then going bigger will only make it worse. I.D. will also become more inaccurate with more ground effect and the possibility of more than one target under the coil.

Good morning U K Brian. Get to any of THE GAMES?! Brian, my views and yours have gone in different directions. To each his own. I very much believe in the Halo effect and will try to collect written evidence. I am no "PRO" but have been doing this for 40+ years with detectors when only BFOs were the machines. Also, bigger coils will recover deeper targets. Ok, your turn to respond.... but please DON'T declare me less than smart, as you did with my buddy Terry Soloman! TTC

 

[TerryC]

thanks pal, sheesh, i couldnt imagine digging 17-18", not in this heat at least.....

17/18 inches.... 17/18 feet..... the depth determines the equipment. A paleopick is nearby. Tnx. TTC

 

[TerryC]

Here is a lengthy post from "Chris' Metal detecting page" Best I could do for now.... I don't know Chris' credentials... TTC


I. The Trouble With Test Gardens

The fresh-burial test for coins has led many a detector owner to conclude his new machine is "no good". That's because this test is nothing more than a worsened version of the Air Test.

You bury a coin six inches deep... and ten minutes later, you see if your machine can detect it. Perhaps you get no signal whatsoever. Maybe you even start to become discouraged, thinking you bought a lemon.

This is like doing an air test, where the air is made of soil. It fails to take into account an extremely important factor, which we'll discuss shortly.


II. The Controversy

Some topics engender controversy way out of proportion to their importance in the world. This is one such topic. There are actually people on detecting forums who have stopped talking to each other entirely, all thanks to this itty bitty subject that revolves around whether or not a buried coin produces an ion halo. It's not because the debates were especially animated, either.

I'm just going to try to present scientific principle and fact here. Take it or leave it. Really, this article is not meant to stoke the fires of debate; it's for the newbie who just bought a detector and thinks it's no good because it can't seem to find a quarter that was just buried in the front yard.

Some people believe the "halo effect" theory has been disproven. However, I have yet to see a peer-reviewed scientific journal article that even comes close to doing this. In fact, everything I have seen points the other way. I'm talking about scientific principles here, not opinion.

Many people understand that iron objects form a halo, but they go so far as to claim that copper and silver objects cannot form halos.

This claim is not at all true. The timetable required isn't even all that long; certainly it's less than a hundred years, unless you live in the Atacama Desert.

It is understandable, of course, since silver and copper have traditionally been thought of as "noble" metals. They're just not as noble as platinum, palladium, or gold. In chemistry, the term "noble" is roughly synonymous with "non-reactive" or at least "not very reactive". The term is used in conjunction with metals, and gases. Xenon is a noble gas, for example, while palladium is a noble metal (though not one of the three traditional ones of antiquity).

---

Does silver ionize in the ground? Nahhh.... ;-) This 1918 Merc was found in the woods, a few inches deep. Pine needles and oak leaves covered the forest floor. Organic acids, anyone? It's pretty clear there was sulfur at work here, too. Silver will give an "ion halo" wherever groundwater or moisture can work on it for decades, especially if that water is even slightly acidic (which it nearly always is). When the black coating was removed electrolytically, it revealed only minor pitting of the surface. Surprise!

---

Have you ever dug up an old copper coin and found that it was green with corrosion?

What do you think that means?

How about a 90-year-old silver coin that emerged from the soil all blackened with tarnish? Instead, perhaps, it emerged with just little traces of black, brown, or even other colors. That's OK, too.

There doesn't have to be noticeable blackening to mean that ions have formed. Silver sulfide is not the only possible compound that can form. Some of the compounds are at least partly water-soluble and can leach out a couple inches into the surrounding soil. Furthermore, it doesn't take much ionization to make the surrounding area conductive.

Recall also that some water-insoluble compounds can become appreciably soluble when that water is slightly acidic (e.g., because of some H[SUB]2[/SUB]S, H[SUB]2[/SUB]SO[SUB]3[/SUB], HNO[SUB]2[/SUB], tannic acid, etc.)

In the ground, ions are mobilized from the surface of a coin by soil acids and dissolved salts. Rain picks up atmospheric NO[SUB]2 [/SUB]and especially SO[SUB]2[/SUB], as well as tannic acid (etc) leached from pine needles, oak leaves, and other materials on the surface. There is also decaying pyrite in many soils; this yields H[SUB]2[/SUB]SO[SUB]3[/SUB], H[SUB]2[/SUB]S, etc. Pyrite is one of the commonest minerals there is; it can be present in all rock environments, from igneous to sedimentary.

Anyway, so you buried a coin 6 inches deep yesterday. Maybe you can't detect it. If you come back in a year, or perhaps five years, this could change. It will not change in just a few days (or weeks), unless the object is made out of something reactive like magnesium or zinc.

With a very slow-reacting metal such as silver, you really ought to come back in thirty or forty years to notice a difference. Or, if you want to do a useful experiment, you could come back every week and see how long it takes for your favorite detector(s) to get a faint signal over the coin. Perhaps someone could speed the process by burying silver coins with egg yolks, and copper coins with vinegar. I've been wondering how 5% HNO[SUB]3[/SUB] would work here, instead.

Since salt water is notorious for promoting corrosion (i.e., promoting ionization of metal), it might work instead of acids. You might be able to get a good test garden without waiting years.

 

[cjon455]

wow, ive got some learning to do, my newb status is shining here, lol

 

[cti4sw]

Damn... that explains a lot, for me... like why it seems to be so difficult sometimes to pinpoint where a signal is coming from! I'm getting better at figuring it out, nonetheless. What's left for me now is to learn to differentiate the tones so I'm not digging everything - although, depending on how long I've been at it, sometimes that's worth it anyway

 

[dustytrails123]

Just wondering why you choose the ace 350.

Dont let the haters get you down ....the ace is a good unit for the price i have pulled plenty of silver out of the ground with mine ..enough to pay for the unit in the first 3 weeks ...
All of them were 2-6 inches and i have had some clad alittle over 9 inches but they werent the best signals id prolly have passed if not being in my own yard ...just spend some time with it once you change out batteries 3 or 4 times you will have enough time on it to understand it abit more ...the toughest thing i find about the ace 350 is mastering the nickels and it took me about 120 + hours to do that

 

[U.K. Brian]

If you have been detecting that long you should know how to conduct proper tests and read what is being said. Age of test bed has little effect because as I said a new test bed is not being used to test the maximum performance of a detector but just as a comparison between detectors. BETWEEN. Each machine tested will have the same lack of "halo" and the same degree of depth gain due to the disturbance of the soil matrix.

As you want to join the "lets mislead" club of your friend consider why silver coins three thousand years old come out of the ground in as good a condition as the day they were lost. Even copper if the ground is not to aggressive will achieve a nice patina and become at one with the soil mineralisation and will be a collectable item. Acid soils and a percentage of other metals will create a battery type effect and can destroy metal in a short time. So you will be able to detect something not worth digging at a greater depth.

Now I had three test beds for many years with the oldest being forty years old. They were also created by digging a trench then inserting the targets sideways so that the ground matrix remained unchanged. I also tested by having large plastic drainage pipes sealed at one end filled with soil. While the soil remains wet or damp and you have an item of poor quality metal or clad you can detect fairly deep. Put the pipe in a shed to dry out for a few weeks and less depth. Your "halo" remains, nothing has disturbed it yet it no longer works. The reason is you need a current for a halo to work. Remove poor quality metal from soil and see the stain of metal that is making that item worthless then try to detect it. You can't. Damp the soil down and let the distructive action restart and you can detect the item at depth again.

You have been reading or misunderstanding rather than thinking and trying. Gold thousands of years old will come up as new. This does not mean there's not some way it could be detected deeper its just as it doesn't break down like copper/brass etc. In this case a sacrificial anode is required. Action/reaction between the gold and a more active "sacrificial" anode (the thing that will break down to create the halo). Electron and anode pathways are required to form a closed circuit.

Now to go to iron. This is one thing that does develop a halo in no time. Many think ferrous is a pain, relic hunters don't. But some metal detectors don't respond to iron halo at all. I will give you a chance to tell everybody which machines don't because as an expert you should know.

Now forums did start with the aim of helping people but that has now become corrupted due to the money in the game. If you go back over my old posts I say "try everything/don't accept what you are told including what I say".
Now as your talking about your "buddy" does that mean you accept what he says ? If so why don't you use the same detectors ? O yes your Gold Bug will sound off on a nickle at 17/18 inches. No need for anyone to look at any other detector with that sort of performance.

 

[cjon455]

Dont let the haters get you down ....the ace is a good unit for the price i have pulled plenty of silver out of the ground with mine ..enough to pay for the unit in the first 3 weeks ...
All of them were 2-6 inches and i have had some clad alittle over 9 inches but they werent the best signals id prolly have passed if not being in my own yard ...just spend some time with it once you change out batteries 3 or 4 times you will have enough time on it to understand it abit more ...the toughest thing i find about the ace 350 is mastering the nickels and it took me about 120 + hours to do that

lol thats funny u say that, ive dug one stinkin nickel with this thing so far, clad at about 3 inches, nickels are like women, mysterious......

 

[Terry Soloman]

...If you go back over my old posts I say "try everything/don't accept what you are told including what I say"...

Well, at least we agree on SOMETHING.

 

[dustytrails123]

lol thats funny u say that, ive dug one stinkin nickel with this thing so far, clad at about 3 inches, nickels are like women, mysterious......

I know what you meen it took me awhile to get the nickels right and still its not right all the time i assure you on that...i have 6 buffalo's and maybe 6 clad nickels i have dug but i dont dig them in just any area....if im in the right place though i can get every nickel out of there but the machine doesnt lock on nickels when you get used to it you will understand what im talking about

 

[GoGoGopher]

With my CZ 7a Pro and GTI 2500, I expect to find China, but that is just me...lol...Realistically, There are MANY factors that govern how deep you can hunt...trash in area, soil mineralization, machine used, headphones used, experience of the operator, moisture in the soil, etc. Deepest I have dug a target is about 18 inches without using a dual box or depth multiplier.

HH,

 

[U.K. Brian]

I've done some testing for various companies and they don't like outrageous depth claims when a new detector comes out as everyone who isn't getting two feet on a dime thinks they have a dud detector and want to get it sorted.

All makes a new user dissatified and causes a loss of confidence in the detector. With a VLF do people really think that if it can detect an object at twelve inches in air its going to manage eighteen in the soil ?

As for rubbish items being dug it helps if priority is given to audio over what the meter tells you. Smooth, unbroken small signals. Sweep the target from a few directions and much iron for instance will change from a single good sounding signal to a double blip type which warns you its rubbish. Many detectors allow I.D. by comparing the discrim. side signal with the all metal one. Some metered detectors use a smear across the VDI to indicate large ferrous. Analog metered detectors can say a lot by the bounce of the meter needle. Also with each new detector see what the effect of increasing or reducing the sweep speed of the coil has. One or other often improves I.D. Four filter detectors normally give improved discrimination and depth as the speed is increased which is the exact opposite of what the limited experience detector users claim by telling you to slow down.

 

[leprechaun]

If your looking for the best depth on that machine,Turn it on in an area where you want to search and turn the sencitivety up until it chatters,then back down a little it becoms smooth and you should get more depth.