Metaldetecting is officially dead in Sweden

[Tom_in_CA]

I would hunt private property, and on the odd chance someone asks you what you are doing I would tell them I was looking for my keys, or wife's ring....

A voice of common sense. To whatever extent someone will argue that the law covers even private land there, .... : Let's be realistic: A) no one's out monitoring what you do in your own cornfield in the middle of nowhere, and B ) there's no law in looking for the plow blade or wedding ring you just lost.

.... 4 years in Swedish prison would be better than 1 year in a Mexican one

There just implies there would be "prison". But why this implied premise ? 100 yrs. from now, when anyone looks back on this post, I bet the ONLY incident of "prison" or legal hassles they will find from Sweden for md'ing, will be someone who was sneaking off-limits spot, someone snooping around obvious historic sensitive monuments, someone who was wearing neon orange detecting during an archie convention, someone who can't take a warning, etc... I highly doubt you'll see an example of someone in prison for md'ing their own land for an object they lost.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Family Maps of Hinds County, Mississippi, Deluxe Edition - Grab it through Amazon!

[sprailroad]

I am just hearkening back to an era before anyone knew about such things. Before such things never even crossed anyone's mind. Before the internet where never read of things far away . Eg.: someone who got a ticket, or a city that created a "permit", or someone who got a "no", etc.... Thus such things as "potential laws" never even crossed our minds. Oh sure, we had the "presence of mind" to avoid obvious historic sensitive monuments. But that was all.

But fast forward a few years later: Some TH'ing magazines had a few articles on some legal hassles. Then the FMDAC came into being. Where each newsletter edition was filled with "scary stories" (no doubt to rally support, educate, get donations, etc...).

And I distinctly recall the look at the club meetings when such things were read aloud. From far away places that had nothing to do with us. You could look around the room and see eyes and big as silver dollars. Because ... certainly ... "no one wants to get arrested". Then the instinctive reaction, after being appraised of stories like these, if you were planning to travel : Ask, of course. To make sure it's allowed at the place you're heading . Because, of course, you don't want trouble like shown in those stories to befall you too. Right ?

And oddly, the incidents snowballed in those early to mid 1980s years. It became a self-fulfilling vicious circle. The "FAQ's" were met with either "no's" (at places it had never been an issue before), or "permits" (which is what I'm suggesting might have been the genesis in Sweden with those out of country visitors going there to detect).

But alas, as I say, it's too late in places where it's already codified. I just hope that people learn from these possible origins, and cease making themselves bullsyeyes in need of attention. Look up laws for oneself. Avoid busy-body archies scrutiny, etc...

Tom, let it be known that I agree with say 99% of all of your post, I say 99% because, well...........just for the sake of debate? Keep em' coming, I like them. (99% of the time).

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Tom, let it be known that I agree with say 99% of your post, I say 99% because, well...........just for the sake of debate? Keep em' coming, I like them. (99% of the time).

thanx sprailroad. And I appreciate you putting out counter-food-for thought. The answer is then somewhere in the middle, haha

 

[Discrimination Dave]

Isn’t complaining about the patriot act at the bottom of every post political? Just sayin’

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Isn’t complaining about the patriot act at the bottom of every post political? Just sayin’

Not according to admins.

 

[4dd3]

I would hunt private property, and on the odd chance someone asks you what you are doing I would tell them I was looking for my keys, or wife's ring.
Bummed to hear this, I have family in Skara and for years I have wanted to go detect the family's property. 4 years in Swedish prison would be better than 1 year in a Mexican one

Hey Highnam. Yeah, I will continue to hunt private property like my families property and friends of family etc. Even maybe do some doorknocking as most swedish people are pretty friendly and open I also don't think anybody has really ever been caught and charged with a crime from metal detecting, ever, in Sweden......

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Hey Highnam. Yeah, I will continue to hunt private property like my families property and friends of family etc. Even maybe do some doorknocking as most swedish people are pretty friendly and open I also don't think anybody has really ever been caught and charged with a crime from metal detecting, ever, in Sweden......

a voice of common sense I'm sure those neighbor's of your family's friends would welcome your help in finding their lost rings too. Good luck !

 

[b3y0nd3r]

TOM_IN_CA:

While I normally agree with you on your steadfast "never make waves" policy, I have to disagree with you on this particular circumstance.

This sounds like a concerted effort to shut down the hobby as a whole. While paying a ridiculous fee and dealing with restrictions with the possibility of jail time form an infraction may seem like reasonable terms to you, to me it's an outrage! It's an assault on the hobby and the people who support it. I say fight the good fight but do it right.

They say all evil has to do to win, is for good men to do nothing. He in a country where a large group of people can make the difference! It's up to him and his people to make the right choice.

4dd3:

I will break down your reply:

"Hey, thanks for your reply. Swedish detectorists did organize and they did get into a meeting with the national heritage board which ABSOLUTELY IGNORED us hobbyists."

Then what happened? Did you take it up the chain or just quit?

"We are too few to have any say at all in this. We are just a few hundreds in Sweden (which has a pop of 10 mil)"

So friends and family and co works only add up to a few hundred?

"I believe the club actually do have a lawyer, but there seems to be pretty much nothing to do in terms of legal action... "

You sure about that? Get a new lawyer.

"The people of the administrative boards welcome this law with open hands - since they have to do less and less work (as one stated in the swedish interview, which I do understand if you are unable to hear and understand it). It has been forbidden to detect in Sweden without a permit since the early years of the 90s."

Then make it difficult. Make it so it's such a pain and bother(legally) that they need to get rid of it. Flood them with constant questions, stop by everyday and ask for literature. Flood with emails. Show them your numbers. Write petitions go door to door.

"Unfortunately no politicians really care about this law. (With a risk of getting too political) they (the parties) are all pretty much thinking the same thing in these questions about historical heritage. As stated previously in my first post, most people in Sweden don't even know this hobby exists."

Then what do they care about? Votes and political influence. Stop making it all about the law and make it about them. You have to work hard for change. If the people of England can affect Brexit, metal detecting rules can change in Sweden.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... steadfast "never make waves" policy, I have to disagree with you on this particular circumstance....

b3yOnd3r, I would agree with you, on all you said, if the premise is true. That those couple-hundred Swede's solidarity could change things. If that is true, then ... by all means ... form an NRA type solidarity.

I guess where we differ is the odds of those md'rs being able to change things. And I base this on the history we see of this: As seen on md'ing forums whenever the subject of "permits" and "no's" gets bandied about: *Most* of the time, the increased visibility simply leads to more rules against us. Not for us (ie.: not repealing). Or to the extent that some places have turned "no's" into some sort of compromises, they get riddled with silly stuff. Like: "on sandy beaches only". Or "not within 10 ft. of any tree". Or ... "turn in everything you find", etc.... Then that "permit" gets promptly fully revoked a few years later ( since it's now perpetually on their radar as something they "permit")

Might there be an exception to this in the case of Sweden ? Certainly ! By all means fight it. But the perpetual image in front of the archie (whose desks it is that these "pressing issues" cross) will be "yahoos stealing our cultural heritage past". But might they be persuaded to implement something like the UK ? Perhaps. It's risky if you do and risky if you don't . I see your point.

BUT IN THE MEANTIME : I would not hesitate to hunt my own family's land, for objects they lost. For several reasons: A) quite frankly, I don't think any of those 2 or 3 archies (or anyone else who might care) is milling about in your cornfield in the middle of nowhere. B) Even if someone DID see you (on your own private land for pete's sake) and DID raise any issues, then as I say: You're looking for the plow blade or wedding ring.

But assume for the moment that A & B above fail a griper's logic: I fail to see how that changes the outcome of efforts to change the law for other forms of land. What I mean is: We see this tossed out there frequently: Someone will suggest that if you're metal detecting, and someone doesn't like it (assuming it even CAME to that), that you will cause laws to be implemented/created against us. But that doesn't make sense. If the location-in-question were already supposedly illegal, then .... how are your actions making it any more illegal ?

Heck, in this case, if anything, the fact of someone someone needing to look for their own wedding ring would be a WAKE UP CALL for the effort to get the laws relaxed. It would be like trying to get the speed limit raised. If those that want to keep it lower, try to point to incidents of speeding tickets, does that have a bearing on whether or not to relax the speed limit ?

Maybe I'm just calloused , but no one would ever stop me from metal detecting on my own land, no matter what country I live in.

 

[Eu_citzen]

4dd3, sorry to hear of your plight. Your post was very well written. Although it's "too little too late" to do anything about it now, But some questions about the background :

a) you've only been into the hobby since 2013, and

b) there were a few hundred hobbyist by that time in 2013, and

c) since it had a "permit" system already in place at that time in 2013, then...

d) Do you know what precipitated that ? Ie.: have you ever talked to old-timers to see WHY THERE WAS EVEN A "PERMIT" dreamed up in the first place ? What put md'ing on the govt's or archies plate in the first place, to dream that up ?

I can give you a better, more detailed picture of what created the current laws:

1. Looting of cultural heritage sites in Gotland (& Öland?). The government wanted to prevent that and made detecting illegal there, the islands only initially.
That was later extended to the mainland as well.

2. A couple of "experts" were supposed to do a scientific paper on the threats of detectors AND Long range detectors.
The government asked them to.
3. They concluded a Long range detector can find an artifact within a radius of 100 meters - this is what got the ball rolling, and the threat of detectorists to seem overly large.

4. The archies & "experts" panicked and the rather dramatic reactions resulted in the laws we see today.


In summary:
2 archies/experts had a bad trip on something illegal, it scared the crap out of them, and they had to make laws to prevent that trip from ever happening again.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I can give you a better, more detailed picture of what created the current laws:

1. Looting of cultural heritage sites in Gotland (& Öland?). The government wanted to prevent that ...

Wait ... stop and think about what you are saying in the quote above: Wasn't the "looting of cultural heritage sites" ALREADY falling afoul of SOME existing law at that time ? I'll bet there was some law being violated. So why not just throw-the-book at those persons who broke an existing law ?

I have a different theory as to the supposed "looting of cultural heritage sites" blame/reason got started:

Stop and think of it Eu-citzen: What's the FIRST THING that will come to an archie's mind, if the subject of hobbyist metal detecting is put on their plate to think about ? Answer MD'ing is ... by definition ... LOOTING OF CULTURAL HERITAGE SITES. Of course. WHETHER OR NOT they actually know of any such thing having happened. Or whether or not any isolated incidents of that would have made them think "let's make a border to border law". It's simply the knee-jerk reaction any purist archie has when tasked with needing to give his opinion on the matter. So they say: "No d/t looting". And the md'rs all say: "Durned that md'r who must've looted an archie sensitive site".

IT'S THE EXACT SAME PSYCHOLOGY that happens in turfed park hunting legal issues in the USA: Someone get's a "no" at city or county hall. And the "go to" reason passed to him is: "No Because of holes". The md'r mutters under his breath "durned that person who must've left holes". But the only thing going on, is that is simply the desk-jockey's mental perception: Holes and damage. IT DOESN'T MEAN he ever actually SAW a hole.

So too do I question whether this is the entire reason for the genesis there in Sweden. Instead I wonder if it wasn't those persons that the OP says were traveling there to detect. So they inquire ahead "is it allowed?" (perfectly logical safe move, eh ?). The question gets on the plates of those 2 or 3 archies to chime in on. And guess what they think ? They START with the purist archie assumption that "all hobbyist md'ing is looting". So they say "no because of looters".

Hence I'm not so sure this is the genesis. Or ... to the extent anyone was snooping around sensitive monuments before any of this, that it didn't ALREADY have its consequences and laws to address it.

 

[Eu_citzen]

Wait ... stop and think about what you are saying in the quote above: Wasn't the "looting of cultural heritage sites" ALREADY falling afoul of SOME existing law at that time ?

I'll bet there was some law being violated. So why not just throw-the-book at those persons who broke an existing law ?

Probably, what really was new was the perceived threat of metal detectors.
So they throw-the-book at the new tool the looters were using.

I've read things in how they came to the conclusion to make the law real, government documents of the time.
Also spoke to a few older people and even archaeologists.

To me it seems the greatest weight was put into the (psedo)scientific paper mentioned in my last post. It's what tipped the scales.

All that said, keep your theory if you like. It's what's keeping the scales tipped right now, for sure!

 

[WaterScoop]

It is such a shame the way “scientific papers” are generated. The corporation/government entity that sponsors the research gets the favorable outcome it wants. If the researcher does not “skew” their research towards their investor they can kiss future funding good bye.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Probably, what really was new was the perceived threat of metal detectors.
.....

Eu-citzen, Glad you saw the possibility of the blame, being the mere thoughts they would have when tasked with thinking: "do we allow md'ing ?" Rather than: "There was some looting, so .... Gee let's make a law".

....I've read things in how they came to the conclusion to make the law real, government documents of the time. ... Also spoke to a few older people and even archaeologists.....

Yes. And I have no doubt those period source documents and decision maker quotes would say "looting". As their "go-to" reason for the "no" they pass out. But .... Can it simply be their mental go-to image when they're tasked with thinking about the subject ?

I realize none of this changes the damage that is already done there. But for other areas, this is a wake-up call to the awareness that: The less purist that archies think of us .... the better.

 

[Honest Samuel]

It looks like I will not be treasure hunting in Sweden. I do not staying in jail.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

It looks like I will not be treasure hunting in Sweden. I do not staying in jail.

Got any links to any md'r in Sweden (who had an ounce of common sense) who "went to jail" for it ?

 

[Eu_citzen]

Eu-citzen, Glad you saw the possibility of the blame, being the mere thoughts they would have when tasked with thinking: "do we allow md'ing ?" Rather than: "There was some looting, so .... Gee let's make a law".

The way I perceive it is: "Gee, they were looting using metal detectors. Let's make a law against metal detectors."

Yes. And I have no doubt those period source documents and decision maker quotes would say "looting". As their "go-to" reason for the "no" they pass out. But .... Can it simply be their mental go-to image when they're tasked with thinking about the subject ?

I realize none of this changes the damage that is already done there. But for other areas, this is a wake-up call to the awareness that: The less purist that archies think of us .... the better.

Actually, it says "Looting with metal detectors". If I remember correctly.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

[h=1]How To Metal Detect Legally In Sweden[/h]A friendly Englishman who recently settled in southern Sweden wrote me to ask how a law-abiding metal detectorist should go about getting a permit to pursue their hobby in this country.
The first thing to understand is that the Swedish system makes it effectively impossible to metal detect on a whim while vacationing (unless you’re a nighthawk). Paperwork, overburdened county officials and long waits are always part of the process. A sustained metal detector hobby is only really possible if you stick to one or two län counties and establish a good relationship with the County Archaeologist and County Museum.
I’ll explain the pertinent laws, then I’ll give some instructions.

• Metal detecting is illegal in Sweden without a permit from the County Archaeologist, Länsantikvarien. Metal detecting is never legal for amateurs on the islands of Gotland and Öland in the Baltic.
• Sweden has no trespassing laws: as long as you don’t interfere with crops or livestock, or bother someone at home, you can go wherever you want.
• When a member of the public makes an archaeological find, he (not the landowner) has ownership of it except in the following cases, where he is obliged to offer the find to the State before possibly gaining ownership:
  
  • Objects that consist at least in part of gold, silver or copper / bronze / brass.
  • Objects that are found together in some kind of cluster.
• This means that if you find a single iron object, it is not illegal to keep it, but you are concealing potentially valuable archaeological data. If you find a flint chip and a potsherd together in one spot, then you are obliged to offer them to the State. And if the State decides to keep any of your finds, you are entitled to remuneration.
• The find spot of an archaeological object becomes a known archaeological site the moment you show your finds to the museum staff. This means that if you find something really interesting in a field and follow the rules, chances are you will not get continued permission to metal detect in that field, as most County Archaeologists do not let detectorists anywhere near known archaeological sites.

With all this in mind, to enjoy metal detecting legally and constructively in Sweden, follow these steps.

1. Identify a likely field/beach/park far from the nearest registered ancient monument (runic Rs on the map, also check the on-line register).
2. Check with the landowner & tenant that it wouldn’t cause them trouble to have you walking and digging little pits on the land in such and such a season.
3. Print out or photocopy a map and circle the area you want to metal detect with a marking pen. A field or two is realistic: a parish is not.
4. Write an application letter to Länsantikvarien at Länsstyrelsen (i.e. the County Archaeologist at your County Council) where you specify the time frame (weeks or months are realistic, years are not) and emphasise that you will get the landowner’s & tenant’s permission and you will show your finds to your County Museum. Append the map.
5. Wait two weeks and then start nagging the County Archaeologist politely by phone.
6. When metal detecting, bring your permit and a GPS navigator. Bag all finds except those of which you’re absolutely positive that they are of post-WW2 date. (Hint: all aluminium is post-WW2.) Write coordinates in the Swedish National grid on the bags.
7. Once a month or so, make an appointment with an archaeologist at the County Museum to look through your recent finds.
8. Everything will be much easier if you get to know people: join the local historical society and offer the County Museum your services as a volunteer (or, if you’re lucky, paid subcontractor) on its excavations.

 

[Eu_citzen]

Figure I could post a little update on this:

Since 1 January 2018 there is now a fee in place for when you seek a permit to go metal detecting.
This fee, so far, seems independent of if you get the permit or not. I.e. you get a fee for every permit you apply for to be paid in advance.

The size of the fee is approx 700 SEK. Or about 80$.

To keep going a whole season (legally) you need 5-10 permits. ~400-800$ per season! Yikes!

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

This poor situation fits in nicely with other things I have been told about Sweden.
Definitely does not live up to it’s reputation IMO