Better times?

[tinpan]

What change are they resistant to, in your mind?
Can't remember who said it but I think about this sometimes: Free men are not equal, and equal men are not free.
If you were going to be an expat, why not Hungary or Poland?

Hi , Poland's and Hungary's right to freedom was giveaway to Stalin before the end of WW 2 by who ? TP

 

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[BillA]

What change are they resistant to, in your mind?
Can't remember who said it but I think about this sometimes: Free men are not equal, and equal men are not free.
If you were going to be an expat, why not Hungary or Poland?

HP, you understand that we are using the word "conservative" differently.
The definition I am using is simply "resistant to change", not as a label for a group. I am not so interested in debates over documents whose principals are today ignored and whose defined limitations are violated every second of every day. That disinterest extends today to all those who wish to return to some better times, but the clock moves forward - only. Only in death is one free, in the meantime it is a slog to seek freedom where ever it may be permitted.

re "free men"; where might that be? Where might a man be born without chains? No where friend, you cannot travel without a document indicating whose chattel you are, and you are owned for life - no frigging escape ! And the government can take your documents ? How is such permitted ? I do not like, or trust, this world and most in it.

All men are not born equal, a simple fact so obvious I have difficulty typing it. Birth is the grand lottery, and each receives the cards dealt; few or many, useful or not - those are the cards as dealt and one now has to play them for best effect. Male or female, ugly or handsome, rich or poor, smart or dumb, peace or war, amidst war or peace; no child at birth selected anything, it is chance (yet some take pride in being born rich, or white, or - the list goes on).

I should be proud to be born an American ? What a load of steaming poop; more correctly I should be thanking my parents as I was not a part of my conception or birth. As newly arrived, I would like to select the country with whom I wish to affiliate; that which infringes the least of my so-called freedoms. The US today is a poor choice for personal freedom.

One may debate this point, but I will listen to none who have not lived in several countries AND speak those languages; experience is variable but always preferred to some armchair thought.

So far we have dispensed with both freedom and equality, how about "You get what you work for." I can live with that, but where?

This is a bunch to digest, will post shortly "The World is your Oyster, Where to Eat" (better times, eh)

 

[Duckshot]

sounds like he has the almighty on his side, I'm not convinced
in any case our difficulty today lies with the present system
society is fractured and the educational system a fraud
? ? ?
we see conservatism similarly, resistance to change

Education is a fraud because people have given up on their responsibility to raise their kids right, instead choosing to leave it in the hands of the people who rule over them. Some kinds can't accept that they do not rule over others and worse yet some cannot accept that they have no master and must rule their own decisions.

The thing about being resistant to change is that the change conservatives crave already came and went. Change it back.

 

[Duckshot]

BillA, read here-

..., That all Men are Created Equal, endowed by their creator with certain unalienable Rights,...

Our declaration claims men are equal in respect to all having equal rights. It does NOT say "all men are equal". I blame the education system. People generally don't know how to read anymore. There are two kinds of "equality" in play in America today. One is equality of opportunity, equality of rights. The other is equality of outcome.

"Free people are not Equal and Equal people are not Free."- u.k.

 

[chub]

BillA, read here-

..., That all Men are Created Equal, endowed by their creator with certain unalienable Rights,...

Our declaration claims men are equal in respect to all having equal rights. It does NOT say "all men are equal". I blame the education system. People generally don't know how to read anymore. There are two kinds of "equality" in play in America today. One is equality of opportunity, equality of rights. The other is equality of outcome.

"Free people are not Equal and Equal people are not Free."- u.k.

so essentially it all goes full circle back to post #1.....the population in general are Born to be wild?

chub

 

[BillA]

The World is your Oyster, Where to Eat ?

free, white, and 21
anyone remember this expression? it used to be common (at least among WASPs), and denoted one single thing -> freedom
and this freedom is the freedom to move, leave, get the f out, as one desires (don't let the door hit you on the way out)
ok, where?

Where to live is a choice consciously taken by few; family, familiarity, employment tend to be encumbrances that diminish the range of alternatives.
Additionally one's specific interests play a factor and the summation will be different for each person.

HP asked why not Poland or Hungary? To answer I will highlight the factors that led me to select Costa Rica, all pretty personal but the process would be similar for anyone considering life in another society. (My life is not a good model, but that's how we learn - one step at a time.)

Was born into wealth but the family was dysfunctional and loveless so it was for naught. Moved from Ca to Italy at 13 and went to a variety of schools but did not finish and entered the USN at 17 to escape my mother. While in the Navy, who sent me back to Italy, I had an epiphany and understood that 1) I was alone, up to me to sink or swim, and 2) no one would ever reward me for being bright, I would only be paid for what I produced. So the path was clear, get an education and go to work; and over time I began to understand how (my small part of) the world works. The ideas in my head were rubble. I was to help pay for a huge war machine? I was to help support those who wanted to make babies? Say What ? I was not raised to be a sheep, I will be my own drummer.

My family had a huge ranch in Calaveras County where gold was mined, a great uncle who went to Nome for a repeat and failed, so gold prospecting/mining was familiar to me and done without much social interaction. So if I am going to move it should be to a good prospect and that quest led me to the Diquis culture in Palmar Sur in SW Costa Rica. Went with a mining friend from AK and the first morning at dawn I made the decision to live in CR, drop dead beautiful is an understatement - and with gold !
And there sure is gold to be had, still.

Climate is an issue. Went to school in Switzerland so I knew about the cold - and wanted none of it. I am a warm weather pus. Mangos are a good guide, where I can live w/o AC, w/o a heater, w/o glass on the windows, hey - how about no windows? (house is isolated overlooking bahia Drake).

Government/police interference? The government in CR is a royal pain, but it is a huge bureaucracy w/o mal intent. The police are far different than in the US. There is not ever a control situation though the police will screw foreigners given the opportunity. I will stop on this topic, with extreme prejudice against the US government. Time to leave the US.

The language was easy as I spoke Italian which is quite similar to Spanish, and that is how I chose CR.
no regrets, and have no desire to visit (US immigration and customs? f you)

 

[Duckshot]

Not wild- Free, with the provision of Liberty. Liberty is the principle that no right may be had at someone else's expense.

Everybody want to be Free but few people these days seems to want the responsibility of Liberty, so they invent artificial rights that always conflict with natural rights. Fake rights that step on other people's toes and eat other people's lunch.

The freedom of a society is directly related to that society's morality. You don't need to take pointy objects away from school kids that respect their responsibility to keep themselves from stabbing their neighbor.

 

[BillA]

so essentially it all goes full circle back to post #1.....the population in general are Born to be wild?

chub

babies are bald monkeys which through education become men
no education = barking dog
civilization is the veneer over savagery, lose it at one's peril

 

[Duckshot]

Chub

When the the cycle hippie throws his watch away it clearly reads "11:40", or twenty minutes to twelve. What is the cultural significance?

I could not Google up an answer, but I remember a line from the old tune In the Pines.

'I asked my captain for the time of day
He said he throwed his watch away
A long steel rail and a short cross tie
I'm headed for my home'

 

[Duckshot]

Darn it!

I should have posted at 11:40am.



ETA- might it refer to the fraction 2/3rds?

40 minutes is 2/3rds of the whole hour.

 

[Duckshot]

Or, twenty to twelve is 700 minutes, there are 720 minutes in twelve hours.

Not sure what we are looking at here but I am darn sure that movie directors do not just focus there camera on a specific time by accident. It's symbolizes something, I'm sure. Its significant to the movie in some way, somehow.

Edited to add- the Hendrix song If 6 was 9 is also featured in the movie. Six is two thirds of nine, and 40 minutes is 2/3s of an hour. :

If the sun refuse to shine,
I don't mind, I don't mind,
If the mountains fell in the sea,
Let it be, it ain't me.
Alright, 'cause I got my own world to look through,
And I ain't gonna copy you.

Now if six turned out to be nine,
I don't mind, I don't mind,
Alright, if all the hippies cut off all their hair,
I don't care, I don't care.
Dig, 'cause I got my own world to live through
And I ain't gonna copy you.

White collared conservative flashing down the street,
Pointing their plastic finger at me.
They're hoping soon my kind will drop and die,
But I'm gonna wave my freak flag high, high.
Wave on, wave on
Fall mountains, just don't fall on me
Go ahead on Mr. Business man, you can't dress like me.

We may never figure this out. Sorry for the sidetrack Chubs.

 

[chub]

Allow me to re phrase......

Better times?


chub

 

[BillA]

chub, suggest a 180
the clock does not run backwards no matter how attractive
we will all enjoy the consequences of increasing population (less and less freedom)

 

[Duckshot]

A six is an upside down nine....

That's what it is, the same kind of focus on a mirror image of your own perception. Same thing BillA was talking about.

That's what it is. Just saying. : )

 

[Duckshot]

chub, suggest a 180
the clock does not run backwards no matter how attractive
we will all enjoy the consequences of increasing population (less and less freedom)

What we are getting now is superficial diversity, what whe need IMO is diversity of thought with a mutual adherence to certain principles, one of those principles being not to harm others "for the greater good". The fact of the matter is that every wrong committed by a society adds to the greater wrongs of society. You simply cannot do good by committing evil, no matter how attractive it seems at the time. It does not matter if it's one person hurting others, a group hurting others or a government hurting others, it adds to the aggregate of wrongs committed. And don't let sissy pansy feelings and emotions cloud your judgement, the right thing ain't going to happen all by itself. It ain't always easy to do the Right thing.

Can't We all just do the right thing?

 

[BillA]

no Duckshot, there are gluttonous pigs among us
got a 'cure' ?

 

[Escape]

I
Not sure I would pass the test for being a conservative, depending on whose definition, but I abdsolutely support our Constitution.
What do you believe conservatives frown on?

Traditionally it has been deficit spending. ( I'm going to pee on myself.)

 

[Duckshot]

A cure?

I suppose I'll know it when I see Him.

 

[Hillbilly Prince]

Or, twenty to twelve is 700 minutes, there are 720 minutes in twelve hours.

Not sure what we are looking at here but I am darn sure that movie directors do not just focus there camera on a specific time by accident. It's symbolizes something, I'm sure. Its significant to the movie in some way, somehow.

Edited to add- the Hendrix song If 6 was 9 is also featured in the movie. Six is two thirds of nine, and 40 minutes is 2/3s of an hour. :



We may never figure this out. Sorry for the sidetrack Chubs.

Or maybe they let a watch run down and just used that?
Actually, I think there must have been some symbolism involved. Something about time is nagging me but I can't retrieve it.

 

[Hillbilly Prince]

What we are getting now is superficial diversity, what whe need IMO is diversity of thought with a mutual adherence to certain principles, one of those principles being not to harm others "for the greater good". The fact of the matter is that every wrong committed by a society adds to the greater wrongs of society. You simply cannot do good by committing evil, no matter how attractive it seems at the time. It does not matter if it's one person hurting others, a group hurting others or a government hurting others, it adds to the aggregate of wrongs committed. And don't let sissy pansy feelings and emotions cloud your judgement, the right thing ain't going to happen all by itself. It ain't always easy to do the Right thing.

Can't We all just do the right thing?

As soon as everyone agrees on what is the right thing. Which will never happen.
People do not want their feelings hurt, and they want to punish those who do with the force of law.
Oh well, it is a mess and I am still thinking about the other comments.