Boudica: British Celtic Queen Research
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  1. #1
    gb
    Jul 2020
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    Lightbulb Boudica: British Celtic Queen Research

    Been doing some research on Boudica, After seeing an Expedition unknown episode on the subject. There may be some meat on the proverbial bone on this subject.





    Hypothesis to follow

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudica

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudic..._the_Iceni.svg

    https://www.ancient.eu/uploads/image...g?v=1600383618

    Probably the bulk of "the treasure if any would be in the Wash. hypotheseis

    But the interesting part of the story is the bodies found, some say headless. With the heads being replaced with carvings of stone for burial. Now what if the heads were sent back to Rome?

    The interesting thing about the Madusa gorgan mosaics is they get larger and more bloated the farther they get from Rome.

    https://helenmilesmosaics.org/wp-con...8/DSC03258.jpg

    https://helenmilesmosaics.org/wp-con...ia-500x492.jpg

    Medusa/Boudica? Was Boudicas head the actual model?

    By studying the gorgans, it looks like Greece was the last stop. I doubt any ship captain would allow that cargo on any ship to take them any farther away.

    Now if a the Emperor of Rome "reportedly crazy Caligula sent heads to you when they got sour would you throw them out. If you are the governor of Greece. My guess is no. He might ask for them back. So where are the heads?

    Madusa is pictured with animals in a lot of the mosaics.

    How about where the exotic animals of Greece were buried. The Zoo?

    As far as the battlefields and graves they don't jive with the locations on Expedition unknown.

    I put them closer to the Wash.

    https://www.google.com/maps/place/Th...78!4d0.0182448

    I kind of like this site as the battlefield. More research would be required.

    https://www.google.com/maps/place/En...7!4d-1.1743197

    https://www.google.com/maps/@52.8541.../data=!3m1!1e3

    As far as the resting place of most of Boudica's Body? A little more research would be required. My guess is the body was taken North probably close to Skegness.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-...shire-46347307

    Looks like somebody has been doing some archeology around Skegness and Ingoldmells.

    http://www.archiuk.com/cgi-bin/web-a...acename_search

    I would need all documented dismembered archaeological finds to put together a clearer picture. Especially bodies found with stone carved heads. This subject seems to be touchy to with the Brits though.

    Back to Greece,
    https://www.art.com/products/p490948...st-unknown.htm

    Madusa craddling a horse 6th century bc?

    That looks like newer stonework inserted into an older building? I wonder whats behind that thing?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medusa

    More research required


    They must be in Greece.
    Temple Of Appolo?

    https://www.google.com/maps/place/38...2.501111?hl=en

    https://www.google.com/maps/place/38...2.501111?hl=en

    https://www.windalert.com/spot/91382

    The stables? Madusa holding the horse

    This looks to be the area where the horses were stabled in the area

    https://www.google.com/maps/place/38...2.501111?hl=en

    https://www.windalert.com/spot/91382

    Wind moves NorthEast, would of kept the smell out of the Delphi Theatre

    This looks like a good spot

    https://www.google.com/maps/place/38...2.501111?hl=en

    Probably 70/30 Boudicas main body has already been found. And Gone unreported. What was found was either reported as miscellaneous unidentified treasure or melted down, and dispersed among collectors. The body is probably still there though. The key is finding it and matching the unidentified treasure to her if there was any. My guess is the stone head was removed from the grave and is in someones private collection.

    Most likely in the 1920s to 1960's



    https://www.christies.com/img/LotIma...ury104440).jpg

    https://a.1stdibscdn.com/archivesE/u...CELTIC1_l.jpeg

    https://www.christies.com/img/LotIma...ead014042).jpg

    I probably would be looking for a grave site that shows being redugup in the last 100 years that doesn't have its head, likley near a coastal "celtic holy site" most likely around Skegness.

    Crystal skull craze related?
    I think the crystal skull craze started in the early 1930's some relationship? They say one of the crystal skulls was commissioned by a Brit in Germany in the early 1930's?
    Hey it's a start.



    It's probably sitting on some shelf in a English aristocratic familys house, handed down through the years

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._A._Mitchell-Hedges

    It seems this Brit had a facination for skulls. A story he heard and remade his own? Hypothesis
    So that puts the probable Boudica discovery before 1943.
    Probably heard the story through his father John Hedges a stockbroker in London.
    1924 is mentioned.
    Who knows maybe the London Museum doesn't want to present their "crystal skulls as fakes" maybe that's part of the Boudica story.

    I would probably try and find out if any "professors" were doing digs around Snegress in the 1920's. My guess is the body was probably found then. Probably did'nt know what they found, or wanted to keep it on the downlow.
    Last edited by HonkeytonkMan; Oct 01, 2020 at 06:30 PM.
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  2. #2
    Charter Member
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    papa

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    If everyone would just stand still, we could sort this out.
    Rebel - KGC likes this.


    "And so the population was gradually led into the demoralising temptations of arcades, baths, and sumptuous banquets. The unsuspecting Britons spoke of such novelties as 'civilisation', when in fact they were only a feature of their enslavement." Tacitus, Roman Senator and Historian, written AD 98.

    The Bald Eagle photo...he/she posed for me, gave me it's best American look. I felt privileged to get the shot.

  3. #3
    us
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    Boudicca committed suicide after a battle by contemporary accounts and so her head would not have been a trophy of war.

    Gorgons/Medusa & her sisters predate Boudicca by more than thousands of years so I don't see where there would be a tie in (Greek myth "adopted" by the Romans - like much of Roman culture).

    The Iceni weren't big on going large with funerals even when time allowed. Her followers would have done something fast and unobtrusive. Maybe a cairn. And as East Anglia, especially around Londinium, has had a LOT of development any evidence is probably well scatterred.

    But keep looking.
    BillA, ECS and Rebel - KGC like this.
    Political correctness is facism pretending to be manners -- George Carlin

  4. #4
    gb
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    That's what the roman accounts say. They also say that her daughters were caught and raped. So Boudica just takes off and leaves her daughters behind? The Warrior queen?
    wasn't beheaded?
    I think the whole crystal skull fiasco, most likely proves the site has already been discovered. The skull was supposedly commissioned to be made in Germany in the early 1930s. That was probably a pretty big bill. Someone must of wanted it for some purpose. Then all of a sudden it shows up at a London auction? Royalty, High aristocracy, A MUSEUM changing their mind?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Burney

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burney..._the_Night.jpg

    By the way those aren't lions, they are sheep. It looks like some joker in the distant past liked turning lambs into lions
    I shall call that piece Lambs to Lions, the most intereting part of the relief.

    http://www.my-favourite-planet.de/im...gon-metope.jpg


    "Queen of the Night"? Interesting

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burney..._the_Night.jpg

    THE BRITISH MUSEUM seems to be coming up a lot in my research.

    Why would the British Museum Commission a Crystal Skull to be made by the best craftsmen of Germany?
    hmm.


    When the story doesn't jive, in so many facets, there has to be multiple fabrications. So much of the story doesn't. The Archies don't even know where the last battle occurred. So much for them.

    As far as Madusa goes, I think history has crossed up some references and inferred them to Boudica.

    Rome was known to send messages and warnings to the corners of the empire.

    Never said it was a big funeral or lots of treasure.

    looks like even the Brits are starting to look at doing a dig at their Roman Amphitheatre

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...chborough-kent

    They should probably dig where they stabled the horses.

    Doubt they will find much Archie stuff related to Ancient Britain in the stable area, My guess is that most of the gruesome stuff probably got sent to Greece.
    The local stuff just probably generated problems.
    But keep an eye out for spartacus

    https://youtu.be/-8h_v_our_Q?t=47

    SPARTACUS might be interesting




    Last edited by HonkeytonkMan; Oct 02, 2020 at 03:59 PM.
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  5. #5
    gb
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    I don't think it was a trophy of war.

    I just think they brought it back to prove to Caligula that she was defeated.



    Do you think the British Museum would be up for financing a dig in Greece?
    It might make an excellent exhibit once the grave site is made public.
    They can use the crystal skull
    Do you think The British Museum has any DNA on hand?









    otherwise it's onto Spartacus


    Lord Baltimore
    Last edited by HonkeytonkMan; Oct 03, 2020 at 04:20 PM.
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  6. #6
    gb
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  7. #7
    gb
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    Quote Originally Posted by HonkeytonkMan View Post
    I don't think it was a trophy of war.

    I just think they brought it back to prove to Caligula that she was defeated.

    Do you think the British Museum would be up for financing a dig in Greece?
    It might make an excellent exhibit once the grave site is made public.
    From a historical (and geographical) perspective, there's just so much wrong with your theorising that it's difficult to know where to begin. Just for starters... Caligula was assassinated in AD 41. He’d been dead for 20 years by the time of the Boudican uprising of AD 60/61! Nero was emperor at the time. And why would anything be brought back to Greece? The Imperial seat of power was in Rome, in Italy.

  8. #8

    Mar 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red-Coat View Post
    From a historical (and geographical) perspective, there's just so much wrong with your theorising that it's difficult to know where to begin. Just for starters... Caligula was assassinated in AD 41. He’d been dead for 20 years by the time of the Boudican uprising of AD 60/61! Nero was emperor at the time. And why would anything be brought back to Greece? The Imperial seat of power was in Rome, in Italy.
    Don’t derail the train! I want to see what unexpected stops it makes!
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  9. #9
    gb
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    Why Greece? That's where the "Madusa" Relief was found , the Appolo temple, I think "Bouduica went on tour". In fact, probably some very interesting things buried in the Horse stable areas at all Roman era amphitheaters.


  10. #10
    gb
    Dec 2019
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    Ah. Rightio. So Boudica's severed head went on tour throughout the Roman Empire as a trophy of war in what would have been a very 'crowd-worthy' event that people in Greece would have paid good drachma to see, and would have been a highly celebrated event when it reached Rome in Italy... and there isn't a single mention of it in any contemporary (or later) source. And presumably Caligula's 20 year old corpse was dug up and resuscitated with the aid of the magical crystal skull so he could enjoy the spectacle. I see where you're coming from.

  11. #11
    gb
    Jul 2020
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    Caligula, Nero whoever. Probably pretty standard Roman practice. Pretty sure when it was being brought back to Rome, Every Port got a peak before it made it to Rome, Greece is just an educated guess. Pretty sure entertainment was pretty thin in 60AD. If The Brits don't have the guts to follow through with something that was started in the 1920's that's their prerogative. I guess the British museum just isn't that interested in archaeology, that's on them.

    https://www.google.com/maps/place/Te...3!4d22.5011584
    Wouldn't mind seeing some lidar

    I'm satisfied with my Crystal Skull





    "Steel From Stone"
    Lord Baltimore


    Last edited by HonkeytonkMan; Oct 12, 2020 at 12:28 AM.

  12. #12
    gb
    Dec 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by HonkeytonkMan View Post
    Caligula, Nero whoever. Probably pretty standard Roman practice. Pretty sure when it was being brought back to Rome, Every Port got a peak before it made it to Rome, Greece is just an educated guess. Pretty sure entertainment was pretty thin in 60AD. If The Brits don't have the guts to follow through with something that was started in the 1920's that's their prerogative. I guess the British museum just isn't that interested in archaeology, that's on them.

    I'm satisfied with my Crystal Skull
    You might like to consult a map. The only sensible maritime route from Britain to Italy is down the western coast of France and through the Straits of Gibraltar into the Mediterranean. A journey to Rome would not involve stopping off in any port of Greece on the way. Mainland Greece and its islands lie to the east of Italy, and Rome itself is on the western side of the Italian peninsula.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    In any case, when the full invasion of Britain began in AD 43, the Roman forces were recruited in Italia (Italy), Hispania (Spain/Portugal) and Gaul (France et al), travelling overland to assemble near Bononia (Boulogne) in Gaul. From there, they made the much shorter hop by sea across the English Channel... probably around 30 miles or so to the landing sites in Kent. That would also be the logical route for anything (apart from bulk cargo such as tin and lead) returning to Rome from Britain at the time. Again, it’s a route that goes nowhere near Greece. Even though the latter part of the journey would probably have been by sea from southern Gaul, it would have been down the west coast of Italia… the opposite side to Greece.


    [The crystal skull in the British Museum has no connection to the Boudica story whatsoever and it's a fake (as far as any claim that it's ancient goes) and the British Museum is quite open about that. After years of speculation about its authenticity, it was finally determined form electron microscopy work in 2005 that that the skull has minute rotary scratch marks around the eye sockets, teeth and cranium consistent with it having been cut and polished with rotary steel tools. It appears to have been made from a piece of Brazilian rock crystal, believed to have been fashioned in a European lapidary workshop (possibly in Germany) in the late 1800s.
    The British Museum describes it as “probably European, 19th century AD” and “not an authentic pre-Columbian artefact”. The acquisition record is quite clear that it has no provenance prior to 1881 in the possession of the antiquarian Eugène Boban in Paris. Boban spent more than two decades in Mexico, where it was claimed the skull had been found. He tried (unsuccessfully) to sell it to the National Museum of Mexico as an Aztec artefact, and then to the Smithsonian, before selling it to George H. Sisson in New York. It was then bought by Tiffany’s at auction, who sold it on to the British Museum at its cost price. Boban also sold a similar example to a collector who later donated it to the Musée de l'Homme in Paris.]
    BillA likes this.

  13. #13
    gb
    Jul 2020
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    Probably from Britain to France, by sea, and the rest by land over time, probably ending up in Greece.

    "The crystal skull in the British Museum has no connection to the Boudica story whatsoever" your opinion

    Pretty sure Britain doesn't want to put forth a Headless Warrior queen as a hero.

    Whats wrong with this picture?

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...OkCaA&usqp=CAU

    It has it's head.




    As far as the skull goes it's mine





    From your posts, you seem to be good at identifying label marks on tea cups,
    As far as the rest of your explanation, obviously the Boudica find will never be announced. So I have taken it as far as I am willing to go.
    Whatever, I ain't into butch chicks anyways.

    Onto Spartacus
    Last edited by HonkeytonkMan; Oct 12, 2020 at 12:35 AM.

  14. #14
    gb
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    Quote Originally Posted by HonkeytonkMan View Post
    "The crystal skull in the British Museum has no connection to the Boudica story whatsoever" your opinion
    Nope. It's the opinion of the British Museum and the experts that conducted the electron microscopy and other analyses on their behalf. The skull was produced using modern tools from a piece of rock crystal that likely came from Brazil and is no older than the late 1800s.
    BillA likes this.

  15. #15
    cr
    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
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    RC I enjoy your always informative posts
    I think you may be spinning your wheels here, pearls before swine as it were

    the OP is listening for confirmation, not critical analysis indicating a revision is warranted with the list of unrelated incidents

    HM cleanup your timeline and see what is left
    Red-Coat and Crow like this.

 

 
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